Santa Wants to Bring an Orbital Buffer...What's a Good One?

G

globe9

New member
Years ago, my brother bought us siblings a Craftsman Orbital Buffer from Sears. I applied the wax by hand and buffed off with the buffer. This was back in the early 90's. I thought it did a good job. I'm not sure what sibling ended up with that buffer when we started moving out of the parent's house.



Well since finding this forum, I've learned much since then. I use the 2 bucket method to wash my black Nissan. Only use MF's on it as well. And I've been using AG HD Wax. The GF and I were waxing her Ford F-150 Super Crew this past Saturday(she uses Meg's Tech Wax 2.0) and she mentioned that she'd like an orbital buffer to help her buff it out. I thought about it and think it may be a good present for her little sister to get us as she is a poor college student and last I checked, they only ran about $50 or so. I told her she could knock us both out with that gift.



Well we need to send her a link to the buffer we want. Sears has a Craftsman 10" buffer/polisher for $54.99. Is this a decent buffer? Not really looking to polish with it. They also have a 7" buffer for $39.99. The reviews said this one will fit in tight spots. The old one I had looked more like the 10". It was big.



What other brands should I be looking at? I want something decent and not likely to break in 6 months, but don't want the sister to spend more than $50-$60....is this possible?



Thanks!
 
Realistically, those old school orbital buffers are pretty useless. I'd either save a little longer or look for a used Dual Action machine like a Porter Cable(PC). Once you try these machines you'll never want to go back to that old deal. Sorry, just being brutally honest.
 
David Fermani said:
Realistically, those old school orbital buffers are pretty useless. I'd either save a little longer or look for a used Dual Action machine like a Porter Cable(PC). Once you try these machines you'll never want to go back to that old deal. Sorry, just being brutally honest.
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I agree with David. I'll also add that if you NEED a buffer to remove wax, you are using wayyyyy too much. When done correctly, application is more tedious than removal. The fact that you need something to remove NXT just blows my mind. That stuff slides off paint in a stiff breeze. Aside from them not having any power, the #1 problem is media. It is almost impossible to find foam media and very hard to find good microfiber media. If you still want one, check Craigslist, people give them away all the time, that's what I did with mine.
 
If the Cyclo is too pricey you might look into the Griot's Garage 6" Random Orbital. IME the Griot's is better than the Cyclo for serious correction (what product you use might factor in...) but yeah, I prefer using the Cyclo when it'll get the job done in a timely manner. There are a few cars where the Cyclo just doesn't really accommodate the vehicle's contours, but those are pretty few and far between.



IMO *nothing* else is built quite like the Cyclo...twenty years of use will just get it nicely broken in.
 
BigAl3 said:
didn't know if you knew, but the cyclo comes with the variable speed now...
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No, I *did NOT* know that! Gee, and Christmas is just around the corner too. I'd been thinking about trying their counterbalance system anyhow...



Thanks for the heads-up!
 
I contaced Heather at Cyclo and she said only two dealers in the US have these in stock at the moment.



There is a 1-2 day wait as they are being made to order at the moment.



Jeff
 
Alot of products are now made for the DA and more are coming soon for the DIY's for that perfect finish. I would get a Porter Cable 7424XP now a great price @ CMA.
 
I'd stick with a random orbital that allows you to use a variety of buffing pad diameters. There is no denying the Cyclo's fantastic build quality, comfort, and loyalty from it's fans. With Cyclo's efforts to deliver a smooth feel during use, it is the best choice for those of you prone to discomfort due to vibration or side-to-side movements of the machine (carpal tunnel, arthritis, nerve irritation, or other physical ailments). If you don't enjoy using the machine because it irritates or hurts you physically, will you really care how well it works?



In relation to its oscillation speed and pad diameter versatility, however, it is my opinion that the Cyclo cannot compete with the likes of the Porter Cable 7424 or 7424XP, the Meguiar's G110v2, or the Griots 10765.



If you compare the usable surface area of two 4" pads (the Cyco uses two 4" pads) to the typically used SMALL 5-1/2" pad, surface area is about the same. But, if you wish to use larger pads to cover large areas in a hurry (boat, SUV, RV waxing and whatnot) or simply because you prefer larger pads for whatever reason, there's a notable difference. Not only does a larger diameter pad polish more area in the same amount of time (or the same surface area in less time if the area is larger than 4 inches in diameter), a larger pad does not saturate with buffing liquid or paint residue as quickly. This means that you can use the machine longer before you have to clean the pad or swap it for a fresh one.



This chart allows you to compare pad diameters and corresponding surface areas:



pad-diameter-chart-kb.jpg




The other BIG benefit of using large diameter pads is an increase in edge speed of the pad. A 4" pad rotating once per second will have less speed at the edge of its pad compared to a larger diameter pad. To envision this, imagine you are standing on a merry go round that is traveling at the rate of one turn per second. If you are standing near the middle of the platform, but another friend is standing at the outside edge of the platform, he will be traveling at a higher rate of speed because he is covering more distance that you are in the same amount of time.



If you need pad speed to help cut awat paint in a hurry or you wish to better level the surface itself, increased pad rotation speed can be a huge asset.



If you are using the machine for heavy defect removal and you wish to concentrate polishing energy to a small area with the Cyclo, one pad will certainly load up with abraded paint residue quicker than the other, whereas a larger pad will evenly distribute the residue across the pad.



Random orbital machines do not mechanically rotate the entire backing plate. Instead, the backing plate is mounted to a freespinning spindle and rotates at a random rate, and can spin in either direction. Overall rotation is dependant upon many factors. All other things being equal other than speed, the faster you run the machine, the more the backing plate is going to rotate. Generally, more rotation generally increases cutting power. Lots to discuss in that statement, but for now, we'll leave that one alone.



As for comparing top-end speeds, the 3000 OPM (oscillations per minute) the Cyclo creates cannot compare to the 6800 OPM of the others. In terms of how quickly a given area can be polished via repetitive scrubbing, it's not even a fair fight. As for comfort, if you only need or want to run the machine at the same speed as the Cyclo, comfort level is likely to dramatically increase versus running the machine at full gait.



Bottom line? Consider purchasing a random orbital that allows you to adjust its overall speed, and allow you to use a variety of pad sizes. It'll take maybe a $100 to get the machine, and another $20-$30 for some professional grade pads.



Just my $28 and 2¢.
 
Kevin Brown said:
In relation to its oscillation speed and pad diameter versatility, however, it is my opinion that the Cyclo cannot compete with the likes of the Porter Cable 7424 or 7424XP, the Meguiar's G110v2, or the Griots 10765..
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If I can live without one for a while, I oughta send you one of my Cyclos some time...heh heh, that's how Scottwax got his intro to machine polishing; I sent my old one to him when I was shipping it away for a rebuild anyhow. You might find some sticktime with it to be interesting.



I'm pretty sure that your results would mirror mine, namely that the Cyclo is much more effective than the older PCs, but not as good as the Griot's (can't speak as to the other ROs).
 
Appreciate the offer.

I did spend some time behind the wheel of Jason Rose's Cyclo. I actually did head-to-head comparison testing using the Cyclo and these machines for some performance testing using the Meguiar's D/A Microfiber System:



DeWalt DW443

Meguiar's G110

Meguiar's G110v2

Porter Cable 7424XP



Flex XC 3401 VRG

Bosch 1250DEVS (both modes)

Festool Rotex RO 150FEQ (both modes)

Dynabrade 61379/Makita 9227C (both modes)



Also used some air-powered machines.

When I put the Cyclo to paint, this is what popped into my head (and I am not exaggerating):



..."Knife to a gunfight."



The slow oscillation was a drag, and it consequently speed limited backing plate rotation. Pair this with the small diameter pads (overall surface area was not too big a deal, but there was a loss of speed at the pad's edge compared to a 5.5" or 6" pad), and it just didn't impress me.



Keep in mind that I was going for defect removal, not final polishing. No doubt the Cyclo is a well built machine, with a very loyal fan base. I also appreciate the fact that it's built like a 1950's counter-top appliance. If Cyclo would up the speed, it's likely that their machine would take on a whole new life, becoming a weapon, a "double tornado", a "defect killah', there's no one rillah'!"



At least they offer a speed adjustment now. :usa
 
Kevin Brown- Ah, OK, copy that.



Always interesting how different people can have differing (and not always "right/wrong") views and experiences. But then I haven't used the new Meguiar's system and have only *VERY* limited experience with the SurBufs. All my Cyclo work has been done with diminishing-abrasive products and it's been a long time since I did any serious correction with a Cyclo. Also, the only ROs I've compared the Cyclo to are my Griot's (which does simply *work better* for correction) and the older PCs.



And yeah...with all the other options on the market/on my shelves, the Cyclos never get used for true correction these days.



You bring up a good point about their needing to up the speed; here they finally add a speed control, but oh how much better it'd be if they teamed that with a speed *increase*. But then, that'd require a bit more of an investment, huh ;)
 
Here is another interesting thread with a partial discussion relating the the performance of the Cyclo:



http://www.autopia.org/forum/machin...s-same-pads-same-compounds-gloss-testing.html



I'll always want the most capable machine, applicator, and polishing agent. After that, performance is dictated by the goal of the polishing session, the technique used to reach that goal, and the guy's understanding of what he is seeing during polishing, and his ability to make adjustments to improve polishing results.
 
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