Rinseless washing questions for long time users and everyone else ...

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Nav45

New member
Hello, I'm trying to see how to go about washing the car the safe and proper way. I just did a correction of the car and feel that it has gotten quite a bit better. There are some minor fine scratches in some spots but overall, a big improvement. Now, the question is: How to go about maintaining the paint so one doesn't need to paint correct again?

I've been doing rinseless washes recently using the multiple towel method (or Garry Dean method if you want to call it that). I'm trying to clean the car properly but also gently. I got some good quality MF towels along with a nice drying towel. I'm still not sure if this is the right method to keep the car free of swirls and scratches installed during the wash/dry process.

My technique is to apply the rinseless solution to the car and then go over it with the wet MF towel. I try to use a new MF towel for each panel and I also dry each panel as I go. If the car is dirtier than usual, I will pressure rinse it first. I feel that I may have more of a chance of doing some paint damage during drying than during washing but I'm not sure ("newbie"). I've been thinking of applying some kind of spray product (wax or QD) while the panel is still wet from the rinseless solution and then drying it with a towel.

My plan has been to wash the car every week or every other week at the most.

I sometimes feel like a regular method wash might also be safer in some aspects. I mean, you apply a lot more product and use a lot more lubrication so it feels safer - at least theoretically. Also, one can go a longer time between washes using this method. But the thing I don't like about the 2 bucket method is that it's more messy, has more steps and requires much more time. Also, the drying process is a little trickier. If one washes their car every week or every other week, I think this method might be a bit much but it might be safer? I'm not sure.

I'm wondering if there are people here who have used rinseless washes for a long time and have done it without creating scratches on their cars. I'm sure there are. I'm having second thoughts about the rinseless wash.

Thank you.
 
I have done over 1,000 rinseless washes thus far in my career. It is just as safe, if not safer than a standard 2 bucket wash. Just take your time, and if the car is exceedingly dirty rinse or power wash it off first. I have given my wife's Mazda 3 rinseless washes when it has been super dirty for over two years now, and it is just now showing some very minor swirls.
 
Compare this to the (differing) experiences of others:

I basically cannot wash marring-free using on the rinseless approach. I certainly cannot wash marring-free with the conventional Two Bucket Method. I *can* wash marring-free with my foamgun-centric version of conventional washes *if* I go about it properly.

No, I'm not somehow being less bright than usual when I do rinseless washes; I'm confident that I've considered everything and am doing it properly. It's just not as safe *as how I usually wash* (which usually takes many hours just to do a "quick maintenance wash") and thus marring is more likely to happen *in my case*. Note that my vehicles often get *FILTHY* between washes, and I insist on driving marring-free vehicles, and/but I'm not gonna do correction every few years.

I'm all about "dislodge and flush", where the dirt gets flushed off the surface by a flood of soapy suds, not dragged across it by the wash media.

OK, that's just how it goes for me. Other people apparently have different experiences. Everybody's gotta see where they fall on the continuum and do what works best for them.

Nav45- Other than doing smaller areas between towel-folds/fresh towels, the only thing I'd immediately change is that I'd spritz on a light mist of your rinseless wash right before you dry, as a "drying aid". It'll add a bit of lubricity and encapsulation and thus a little more of a safety margin. I'd use a very soft/fluffy plush MF Drying Towel and if I saw any dirt at all on it I'd immediately stop and take remedial action (rewash, get out clean MF Drying Towel).

Yikes, washing every week, or even every two weeks, is a lot more frequently than I do it (too many other things to do), but that oughta help because it won't be getting as dirty between such frequent washes.
 
IMHO the trick is to pressure wash the car with a pressure washer extensively before touching it via any wash method. The bottom line is, scratches are caused from wiping particles off the surface, the more of those particles you eliminate before wiping the surface - the less scratches.

If your going to wipe dirt off instead off rinsing it off - expect more scratching.


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Swanicyouth said:
IMHO the trick is to pressure wash the car with a pressure washer extensively before touching it via any wash method...
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Yes, indeed, that's *VERY* beneficial.

While I did get by without one, the cheapie I got for Christmas is so good (and so inexpensive) that IMO everybody oughta at least give it some serious thought. Note that cheap-and-weak = safer and still effective enough. I had to be a bit careful with my previous, potent, pressure washers, but this thing is simply, uhm.... Accumulator-proof.
 
Nav45 said:
...
My technique is to apply the rinseless solution to the car and then go over it with the wet MF towel. I try to use a new MF towel for each panel and I also dry each panel as I go. If the car is dirtier than usual, I will pressure rinse it first.
...
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Your technique is sound.

Some cars (paint) can handle hose-less methods and some can't. I made the decision a while back to raise my threshold of acceptance for towels marks and light marring in order to enjoy a clean and glossy car roughly 80% of the time. I just can't get around to using 2BM every week or two like some folks do. The marring caused by my rinseless and waterless methods can be corrected by my weakest polishes or AIO's on a blue pad. And it takes about 6 months before I need to whip out the polisher.
 
WaxAddict- Yeah, even Autopians need to find a threshold of significance that *they* can live with and not let this marring-related stuff take all the fun out of the whole Car Hobby thing. While I'm pretty extreme about wash-induced marring, there are other things that I just don't let bother me; life is not a car show.
 
We'll said Accum. Balance. Life is about balance. Oh, and beer.

Hey: someone edited my post.:P well done Moderator. B)
 
IHA Mark, wow you've got quite the experience with the rinseless washes! Nice to hear that you've used it on the Mazda 3 since that's the car I have. So the minor swirls that were installed, would you use a finishing polish on them? Thanks.

Accumulator, how do you feel about using a combination of a foam gun and then using the rinseless wash afterwards? I would foam the car down and then rinse it off. Then do the rinseless wash. Good to know about using more of the product during the drying process. LOL, I want to do weekly or bi-weekly washes because I wouldn't want the car to be too dirty for the rinseless wash. I do like the idea of your method though. Thanks.

Swanic, yes that makes sense. The dirt that is trapped in the MF towel can possibly scratch the surface. If the dirt, or most of it, is first rinsed off then it's that much safer for the paint. Do you just pressure wash the car with water? I'm thinking of possibly getting a foam gun and applying foam to the car and rinsing it off and then doing the rinseless. I don't have a pressure washer but I do sometimes go to the local car wash where I use the ones there. Thanks.
 
^ I usually foam the car, then pressure wash it with water. The foaming probably is a waste of time - but I do it anyway. I don't think it's 100% necessary. If it's hot out, I'll do a final rinse with DI water and use DI water in the rinseless solution to avoid water spots. Prior to doing that, I'll clean the wheels by hand with a pressure washer and wheel tools.

I have also pressure washed at night at the Pay N Spray and done a rinseless in the morning. Since it's my experience the sun/heat greatly catalyzes the formation of water spots - I find any water spots left from overnight simply just wipe off pretty easily. When I do this method, I'll just use the hose to clean the wheels prior - since they were pressure washed the night before.

I've also done rinseless washes at the Pay N Spray in their bay when they are not busy - after using their pressure hose (winter). This is nice because it's like working in shade and it keeps the cold wind off you (in bay). I only have a single car garage at the moment - hopefully that will change soon. But, I have to drag all my stuff their to clean wheels, etc...


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Nav45 said:
Accumulator, how do you feel about using a combination of a foam gun and then using the rinseless wash afterwards? I would foam the car down and then rinse it off. Then do the rinseless wash. Good to know about using more of the product during the drying process. LOL, I want to do weekly or bi-weekly washes because I wouldn't want the car to be too dirty for the rinseless wash. I do like the idea of your method though..
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IME the foaming itself does *VERY* little, just goes through shampoo mix. Simply *gotta* have some mechanical agitation going on, that's why I use the foamgun in conjunction with a BHB. If you use that combo, and *then* do the rinseless wash, it might work out OK, at least if you do it as often as you're planning.

Swanic, yes that makes sense. The dirt that is trapped in the MF towel can possibly scratch the surface. If the dirt, or most of it, is first rinsed off then it's that much safer for the paint. Do you just pressure wash the car with water? I'm thinking of possibly getting a foam gun and applying foam to the car and rinsing it off and then doing the rinseless. I don't have a pressure washer but I do sometimes go to the local car wash where I use the ones there. Thanks.
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I just pressure wash with water, no foaming, no soap at all. With my LSPs (especially FK1000P), that works really well. Then I go to BHB/foamgun. Really cheap pressure washers are, well...really inexpensive. For the cost of some trips to the local touchless you could buy a <$100 model that'll work great for this. The bottom-fo-the-line one I got for Christmas has already proven worth the money.
 
I've been doing rinseless washes off and on with ONR since about 2007 with great success. I say 'off and on' because sometimes I foam, pressure wash, 2 bucket wash... In the dead of winter here in upstate NY, I just do the touchless or coin-op pressure wash. I don't do a rinseless wash by itself if there's road splash/grit on the paint - this would get hosed or pressure washed (rinsed) off first.

My ONR wash is a bit different. I use a concentrated ONR (about 2 oz. with water in a quart sprayer). My bucket is filled with just warm, fresh rinse water and I use an inexpensive waffle weave towel. I spray a panel liberally, then wipe with my wet ww towel, followed by a dry wipe with an MF towel. I fold the ww towel and rinse as needed. This works great for me and I have never had any signs of marring - the ONR concentration is slick enough and the ww towel captures the grime that slides off with ease. I usually follow with a spray wax like Duragloss Aquawax as a topper.
Bear in mind that although it may not matter, the above is on a finish with a good LSP so in combination with the ONR concentration, the dirt 'n grime that did stick, comes off pretty easy. This might not be the case on a neglected beater.

So there it is...a no rinse wash that's close to a detail spray 'n wipe. Now the conventional no rinse method can work, I just like the performance and feel of the concentrated spray method. But like many detail procedures, you have to find your own way because there are many ways to achieve the desired result.
 
Nav45 said:
IHA Mark, wow you've got quite the experience with the rinseless washes! Nice to hear that you've used it on the Mazda 3 since that's the car I have. So the minor swirls that were installed, would you use a finishing polish on them? Thanks.
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Yeah, I will probably just use something like Optimum Hyper Polish on it when I get around to it, with a White LC pad or Optimum MF polishing pad.
 
MiVor said:
I've been doing rinseless washes off and on with ONR since about 2007 with great success. I say 'off and on' because sometimes I foam, pressure wash, 2 bucket wash... In the dead of winter here in upstate NY, I just do the touchless or coin-op pressure wash. I don't do a rinseless wash by itself if there's road splash/grit on the paint - this would get hosed or pressure washed (rinsed) off first.

My ONR wash is a bit different. I use a concentrated ONR (about 2 oz. with water in a quart sprayer). My bucket is filled with just warm, fresh rinse water and I use an inexpensive waffle weave towel. I spray a panel liberally, then wipe with my wet ww towel, followed by a dry wipe with an MF towel. I fold the ww towel and rinse as needed. This works great for me and I have never had any signs of marring - the ONR concentration is slick enough and the ww towel captures the grime that slides off with ease. I usually follow with a spray wax like Duragloss Aquawax as a topper.
Bear in mind that although it may not matter, the above is on a finish with a good LSP so in combination with the ONR concentration, the dirt 'n grime that did stick, comes off pretty easy. This might not be the case on a neglected beater.

So there it is...a no rinse wash that's close to a detail spray 'n wipe. Now the conventional no rinse method can work, I just like the performance and feel of the concentrated spray method. But like many detail procedures, you have to find your own way because there are many ways to achieve the desired result.
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I like the sound of this process. I like the idea of the "pre soak" and the more concentrated spray method. It would seem that this process would offer the best chance of mar free rinseless wash. I think I will try this on my next rinseless.
 
I'm with Accumulator...foam fun/bhb or wash mitt combo. Then during the "drying stage" I do the "Rinseless" wash using IUDJ.

Some have great success ONLY using a Rinselss Wash Method. I know Scottwax only used Rinseless and he has had great success with it! I have seen him wash my car several times with the Rinseless method prior to polishing. Key is to develop a sound plan and perfect it.
 
A pressurized sprayer for the rinseless wash works well for me. Got a 2-gallon one made for spraying lawn chemicals, which is a bit larger than I probably should've bought but isn't too awful big. Also have a bucket of the IUDJ so I can get my MFs really saturated with it, second bucket for the used ones.

Gee, I sure do have a lot of buckets, over half a dozen, but I can imagine even adding two more (redundant pair for the IUDJ) as having a setup on each side of the washbay is very convenient.
 
I think there's ways to make rinseless washes very versatile. Usually my cars aren't dirty enough to foam gun before rinse less but I will do it occasionally. Using the atomizer as a drying aid also works very well. I'll throw some UWW in there then give the panel a quick spritz before drying.
 
Been doing rinseless washes since almost day one when ONR was first released. Always give the car a quick pressure wash when it is really dirty and only do rinseless washes during the warm months and traditional washes in the winter (garage has a drain and never gets below 42')--just couldn't imagine doing a rinseless with all the winter crud. Have switched to Ultima WW+ as I find it to have much more lubricity and leaves behind a nice glow. I have tried everything possible as wash media over the years from individual MF, wool mitts, grout sponges, MF covered sponges, MF mitts etc and found a combination of two to work the best.

This MF mitt is very soft and has fibers about 1/4-3/8 inch long. I remove the stitching that creates the finger pockets and insert a grout sponge into the mitt. This allows me to control the amount of rinseless mix I use (more when it's dirtier, less when not so dirty), keep the pressure on the paint very light and they are inexpensive enough that you can use 3-4 per car wash then remove the sponge and wash them all. Really works great and I find I can go a couple of years before needing to repolish.

MF%20Mitt.jpg
 
pwaug said:
Been doing rinseless washes since almost day one when ONR was first released. Always give the car a quick pressure wash when it is really dirty and only do rinseless washes during the warm months and traditional washes in the winter (garage has a drain and never gets below 42')--just couldn't imagine doing a rinseless with all the winter crud. Have switched to Ultima WW+ as I find it to have much more lubricity and leaves behind a nice glow. I have tried everything possible as wash media over the years from individual MF, wool mitts, grout sponges, MF covered sponges, MF mitts etc and found a combination of two to work the best.

This MF mitt is very soft and has fibers about 1/4-3/8 inch long. I remove the stitching that creates the finger pockets and insert a grout sponge into the mitt. This allows me to control the amount of rinseless mix I use (more when it's dirtier, less when not so dirty), keep the pressure on the paint very light and they are inexpensive enough that you can use 3-4 per car wash then remove the sponge and wash them all. Really works great and I find I can go a couple of years before needing to repolish.

MF%20Mitt.jpg
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I trust your judgement, but that nap seems way too short to just need 3 or 4 per wash. I use about 20 towels when I do Gary Dean method, and my car's a coupe. But, 2 years before needing a polish speaks for itself.
 
WaxAddict said:
I trust your judgement, but that nap seems way too short to just need 3 or 4 per wash. I use about 20 towels when I do Gary Dean method, and my car's a coupe. But, 2 years before needing a polish speaks for itself.
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I guess you could use many, many separate towels....but I find I can rinse mine and keep on going just fine. When you think of it, if you were doing a wet wash, would you need to use multiple wash mitts? You just need sufficient lubricity so the grime just falls off.
 
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