Replacement for IP?

3

3liter6

New member
Hi,





I have a PC7424, and do a fair number of cars with serious defects. The IP seems to work OK, but I find I spend a lot of time on an area to only remove the finest of scratches, and don't even see a lessening of any scratches visible without a halogen. I've been using the Meg Burgundy pad or LC orange pads, as the backing came off of my yellow pad, and I didn't really see much difference between the orange and yellow anyway.



I'm gettting down to the end of the Menz. IP bottle, and I'm wondering if there isn't a better product out there for me? Is there something I can use that will work faster than the IP? I have the FPII, but on all but a few of the cars I've been working on, I can't really see an improvement that makes it worth the time to use it. If I can get results better than the IP and still have a finish where I can move on to KAIO that'd be great.



I think basically I'd like something similar to the descriptions of M105, but for a DA polisher. So any suggestions?





Thanks!
 
Using a PC7424 you will need smaller 5.5inch pads or even 4inch pads to generate more heat to break down/ work in the stronger compounds. However you'll have to work in smaller sections.



If IP is only taking out fine swirls then you need something much stronger.



M105 would be the compound i would use in your case. One pass would probably equal roughly 6 passes of IP. However each pass of IP would probably also take 6 times as long, so you'd spend 36 times more time using IP ;)



As M105 works really quick then you can just work in 1 foot by 1 foot sections with a 4inch pad and remove the defects quite easily.



By rotary M105 will probably be too strong for normal swirls but with a PC the cutting power should be rather good.
 
Why do you want to do one step polishing, when you can have better result and save time using two steps? With a milder polish that finishes lsp ready you often have to go over each panel several times, working the polish for a long time to try and remove the defects. Instead you could probably just go over the car once using a heavy polish or compound, and follow once with a milder polish that finishes lsp ready :)
 
Not sure how well #105 will work with a PC. :nixweiss



I'd step up to #83 as this is the recommended max with a PC.
 
TTWAGN said:
Using a PC7424 you will need smaller 5.5inch pads or even 4inch pads to generate more heat to break down/ work in the stronger compounds. However you'll have to work in smaller sections.



If IP is only taking out fine swirls then you need something much stronger.



M105 would be the compound i would use in your case. One pass would probably equal roughly 6 passes of IP. However each pass of IP would probably also take 6 times as long, so you'd spend 36 times more time using IP ;)



As M105 works really quick then you can just work in 1 foot by 1 foot sections with a 4inch pad and remove the defects quite easily.



By rotary M105 will probably be too strong for normal swirls but with a PC the cutting power should be rather good.
Click to expand...



Heat is unwanted by product. You don't want more heat...
 
It is always technique that lets people down before the product

I'd rather spend four to five minutes with SIP or IP than two or three with something else



What is your technique like?

I dislike anything from meguiars, especially their buffing pads (burgundy is too harsh for IP and too weak for others and the yellow pad is too weak.

I love lake country's seven different pads, so much better than two or three



Move the machine slowly, so many people move it at like a foot a second, should be one to two inches a second or even slower

I got out severe marks on a hard de beer paint finish (show truck) yesterday with just SIP and a LC white (rotary) that normally would take stronger pad and polish

Why - cause I move the machine really slow and spend much more time polishing each section



See how this guy moves the machine - IMO that is too fast (it might work for him but it ain't the best way)and you should keep the movements dead straight, not do those twisty movements and also switch between left and right and up and down passes so you cover the whole area properly



Scott McLain from Lake Country Mfg detailing a Pontiac Solstice at SEMA by properautoguy -- Revver Online Video Sharing Network
 
SVR said:
What is your technique like?
Click to expand...



I don't know, it's OK I guess? :D. I do the back and forth and up and down going over the area several times until the polish breaks down. Speed is maybe 70% of the guy in the video. I may be guilty a lot of the time of trying to cover too much area, but even when I've stuck strictly to a 1-2' square I don't really see dramatic improvements.
 
TTWAGN said:
Using a PC7424 you will need smaller 5.5inch pads or even 4inch pads to generate more heat to break down/ work in the stronger compounds. However you'll have to work in smaller sections.
Click to expand...



I was thinking about getting smaller pads, I currently only have 6.5" pads. So smaller pads will give me better correction capabilities, right?
 
Zet said:
Why do you want to do one step polishing, when you can have better result and save time using two steps?
Click to expand...





I'm fine with 2 steps, which is why I original bought the IP and FPII. These are the first polishing products I've ever used, until I bought the Menz, the closest I'd come to a polish was the chemical kind like the Meguiars 3 step, or the 3M Shine Restorer.



I ordered all my stuff from CMA and their page led me to believe that IP was the most aggressive you could get, a last result polish that you only used after milder products had failed, and then had to follow with FPII. I was actually scared to use it the first time because I thought I'd burn through the paint.



In reality, I've only ever been able to get defects out of paint with the IP, and only had to follow with FPII on a couple of dark cars, the rest of the time they've all been close enough to LSP ready to my eye that I haven't thought it was worth the extra time for difference I can't spot.



Yesterday I did a '97 F150 that probbly had never been polished, fairly oxidized and lots of waterspotting. The IP did a great job knocking out the oxidation, but I went over the same spot several times with the orange and burgundy pad and saw no reduction in spotting.



Anyway, like I said I have no problem with 2 or more steps if it's going to get the job done, I just bought the IP thinking it was the be-all-end-all for knocking out defects with the PC, and instead in my experience it's barely able to take out even the most minor of scratches. Of course, if I can get fast LSP ready defect removal in one step like M105 seems to do for the rotaries, why not?
 
How fast are you moving the PC? It should be about an inch per second initially.



About 10% the speed of the rotary in the video.
 
THe best thing you can do and the cheapest alternative too is to get some 5.5 low profile orange LC pads, and a few of the white ones too. I was using 6.5" regular LC pads on my PC and I'll tell ya - there is a huge difference when you get the 5.5". I like IP and 106, they work well with the smaller pads. And I've got paint LSP ready (at least in my opinion and the customers') with IP on a orange 5.5" pad. One thing to be aware of, use a little less pressure and keep it moving, unless you're working on some tough scratches, then move it very very slow and use your hand to check the paint temp - it will be warm to hot if you stay in one spot too long. Oh, yeah - on a PC, correct with speed 6, anything less is unproductive.
 
3liter914-6 said:
I was thinking about getting smaller pads, I currently only have 6.5" pads. So smaller pads will give me better correction capabilities, right?
Click to expand...

Yep it sure will. The buffers power is now concentrated in a smaller area.



With 4 inch pads a PC has enough power to use rotary only compounds with moderate success.



Ive seen video clips and in real life M105 used with a random orbital buffer and it works great. A 4inch cutting pad and some M105 would be good for removing light scratches that usually would require a rotary.



The 5.5inch pads that are going cheap would also give you extra cut. However at the very most your cutting power would be improved by 50% so even with SIP you may have to increase the strength of your compound.
 
I used a 4inch Sonus yellow pad with 3m 3000 RC and a PC. It left a nice enough finish that I could finish it with ZPC on a LC white pad.
 
3liter914-6 said:
I'm fine with 2 steps, which is why I original bought the IP and FPII. These are the first polishing products I've ever used, until I bought the Menz, the closest I'd come to a polish was the chemical kind like the Meguiars 3 step, or the 3M Shine Restorer.



I ordered all my stuff from CMA and their page led me to believe that IP was the most aggressive you could get, a last result polish that you only used after milder products had failed, and then had to follow with FPII. I was actually scared to use it the first time because I thought I'd burn through the paint.



In reality, I've only ever been able to get defects out of paint with the IP, and only had to follow with FPII on a couple of dark cars, the rest of the time they've all been close enough to LSP ready to my eye that I haven't thought it was worth the extra time for difference I can't spot.



Yesterday I did a '97 F150 that probbly had never been polished, fairly oxidized and lots of waterspotting. The IP did a great job knocking out the oxidation, but I went over the same spot several times with the orange and burgundy pad and saw no reduction in spotting.



Anyway, like I said I have no problem with 2 or more steps if it's going to get the job done, I just bought the IP thinking it was the be-all-end-all for knocking out defects with the PC, and instead in my experience it's barely able to take out even the most minor of scratches. Of course, if I can get fast LSP ready defect removal in one step like M105 seems to do for the rotaries, why not?
Click to expand...



Yeah sometimes the descriptions are a bit optimistic on those supplier sites ;) Before trying anything else, try moving the PC really slowly when buffing like it has been suggested, around an inch per second, to see if that increases the effectiveness of IP. And smaller pads would help too.
 
Zet said:
Yeah sometimes the descriptions are a bit optimistic on those supplier sites ;)
Click to expand...

:laugh: Yeah, it looks that way.





Before trying anything else, try moving the PC really slowly when buffing like it has been suggested, around an inch per second, to see if that increases the effectiveness of IP. And smaller pads would help too.
Click to expand...



That's what I'm trying right now, see if I can get the IP to work a little better for me. Black '99 Honda Civic HX, from FL. Decent amount of oxidation, and defects/spotting. Just finished the roof, and did a wipe down. Moved the PC pretty slowly. I'm thinking I might run out to the paint supply store and see if they have the Meg. 83 and give that a try.



Thanks:xyxthumbs
 
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