Removing Blackfire II

[matty north]

Okay, I've used the search function and don't really see the answer I am looking for.



My car is now six months old. It has about 8 coats of Zaino and 3 coats of BF2 on it. The BF2 is about six to 7 weeks old.



Also, my car as some very minor scratching. Most likely due to improper drying or maybe even the CWB I like to use when feeling particularly lazy.



I have a giant new supply of Zaino and want to first prep the car. I intend to clay the car but first want to remove the Blackfire entirely.



I do not have a PC so I want to do this by hand. The scratching is very light and can only be seen under certain lighting conditions. It mostly goes in one direction and is not swirling (for the most part) since I wash and dry in proper directions.



I want this to be as easy as possible and I am not concerned with necessarily removing the scratches since it is so light I think I will just save the clearcoat and worry about that stuff when it gets worse.



So what do you guys recommend? From my searches, it looks like the P21S/S100 paint cleaner, PPCL or Meguiar's #7(?) is the way to go.



The plan:



Wash with Z7

Clay with Z7 mix as lube

Paint cleaner

Wash w/Z7

Layer new Z5/Z2



Comments?



Nancy

 

[CharlesW]

Not being a Zaino user, I can't say for sure, but I don't think you want to use Meguiar's #7 prior to Zaino. No. 7 has fillers and oils in it. Decent product, just not the right thing to use with Zaino. I think there is a post somewhere on the site with pretty specific instructions on the best way to prepare for and apply Zaino.



Charles

 

[matty north]

Not being a Zaino user, I can't say for sure, but I don't think you want to use Meguiar's #7 prior to Zaino. No. 7 has fillers and oils in it. Decent product, just not the right thing to use with Zaino. I think there is a post somewhere on the site with pretty specific instructions on the best way to prepare for and apply Zaino.



Charles

Charles,



I've seen the posts on general prep for Zaino. That's not what I am looking for. I am particularly interested in how to completely remove the Blackfire II. That Zaino will follow is incidental to my query.



I mentioned the minor marring to the surface that I do not want to agressively remove only because if there are mild products that will remove the BF2 and at the same time slightly diminish the marring, so much the better.



Thanks for the heads up about the #7. I know not to use a glaze because of the oils. I may have the product number wrong as I thought there was a Meguiar's paint cleaner in addition to a glaze.



Nancy

 

[CharlesW]

The plan:



Wash with Z7

Clay with Z7 mix as lube

Paint cleaner

Wash w/Z7

Layer new Z5/Z2



Comments?



Nancy

Nancy:

Sorry about that.

Your plan kind of looked like you were planning to apply Zaino according to what you have listed in "The plan". As I said, I'm not a Zaino user, but it looks like you may have skipped some steps in your plan. Whatever.



Charles:nixweiss

 

[imported_Aurora40]

So what do you guys recommend? From my searches, it looks like the P21S/S100 paint cleaner, PPCL or Meguiar's #7(?) is the way to go.

I don't think #7 will do it. It really isn't a cleaner at all. I imagine PPCL might be a bit too mild, though I've never used it. If you have scratches anyway, a swirl remover like #9, SFP, or whatever, will certainly remove any protectant from your paint. I assume you aren't trying to remove the BF while leaving the Zaino. I think that would be quite tricky...

 

[rstype]

#7, PPCL, and P21S/S100 paint cleaner followed by a Dawn wash should effectively remove BFII in preparation for Zaino.



4DSC discovered that Mother's Sealer Glaze will remove Klasse. I expect #7 to do the same for Blackfire...

 

[DETAILKING]

Using paint cleansers will prob remove BF, but will do nothing for your swirls. A good mild product you can use by hand is 3M swirl mark remover #39009 for dark color cars. I would use this by hand using light to medium pressure over the whole car to completely remove BF. Use a second more aggressive coat on panels that have swirling or marring. After this step, I would wash with Z7, and zaino away, making sure to use either Z1 or ZFX.



ps..I am not sure if a dawn wash will remove BF....but I am sure there are people out there that have tried this.........

 

[matty north]

I don't think #7 will do it. It really isn't a cleaner at all. I imagine PPCL might be a bit too mild, though I've never used it. If you have scratches anyway, a swirl remover like #9, SFP, or whatever, will certainly remove any protectant from your paint. I assume you aren't trying to remove the BF while leaving the Zaino. I think that would be quite tricky...

Yeah, I think I have the wrong Meguiar's product in my original post. I know there is some kind of hand paint cleaner similar to PPCL but I can't figure out which product number it is.



You are correct. I am not trying to remove just the BF2, but rather trying to get down to bare finish without using a PC, removing much clearcoat, etc. I actually suspect the marring I see is in the sealant layers more than the clearcoat.



After I get back to the bare finish, then I will proceed with the Zaino layers again. I'd also like to avoid the alcohol route so I'm looking for some type of paint cleaner that will remove the sealants that is easy to use by hand.



Not asking for much, huh?



Nancy

 

[matty north]

Using paint cleansers will prob remove BF, but will do nothing for your swirls. A good mild product you can use by hand is 3M swirl mark remover #39009 for dark color cars. I would use this by hand using light to medium pressure over the whole car to completely remove BF. Use a second more aggressive coat on panels that have swirling or marring. After this step, I would wash with Z7, and zaino away, making sure to use either Z1 or ZFX.



ps..I am not sure if a dawn wash will remove BF....but I am sure there are people out there that have tried this.........

Thanks, this sounds reasonable. So I wash, SMR, clay, wash again followed by the Z layering? Basically, what I am going to do is the original process I followed when I first did the Zainoing when the car was new, but now I need to add a cleaning step and it sounds like it goes in before the claying.



Also, is there any risk of getting a dulling effect when using the SMR by hand? From my searches, I think not, but just want to be sure it's not something that really needs a machine to break it down properly in order to leave shine instead of dulling.



Here's a really dumb question: When using the SMR by hand, how do I know how long I need to rub it in for? How will I know when the sealants are off?



Thanks,



Nancy

 

[mrdetailer]

The one I can get at Walmart is either Adhesive Tar and Wax Remover, or General Adhesive Remover. Auto paint supply stores have some paint surface preps that remove waxes without harming the clear coat.

 

[paco]

Thanks, this sounds reasonable. So I wash, SMR, clay, wash again followed by the Z layering? Basically, what I am going to do is the original process I followed when I first did the Zainoing when the car was new, but now I need to add a cleaning step and it sounds like it goes in before the claying.

Wash, Clay, QD to get rid of any clay streaking etc and allow you to see the swirls fully, SMR, Wash, Zaino



Clay before SMR to above further embedding the contaminates.



SMR by hand could lead to hazing if you don't work the product long enough to break down the abrasives sufficient to bring out the glossy finish.



Just keeping working in small 1x1 or 2x2 areas. Work the product until it practically disappears and then examine if another application is required. By hand, it will take much longer than a dual action polisher but Scottwax is a testament that hand application can do wonders so if you have the muscle stamina in your arms, legs and back and time to due it by hand, by all means do so. Personally, I can only complete the hood and a couple of panels and I'm beat (hence my NY resolution to go back to the gym ).



There are specific products designed to remove sealants/waxes etc. Prepsol is one that comes to mind. Meguiars all purpose cleaner in a high enough concentration should also do the trick.



However, 3M SMR should do the trick nicely. A test could be to rewash the vehicle after the SMR and see if the water beeds still. If not, you're pretty sure that you ready to go ahead and Zaino.



Note: Any product left after the polishing and after the wash shouldn't effect the Zaino bonding as it'll be on there pretty good if that is the case. Just ensure the finish is to a level that you are happy with and seal away. :xyxthumbs



Cheers!

 

[DETAILKING]

One application will remove all your zaino and BF coats. Do small sections at a time. DO NOT allow the product to dry out while rubbing. Use medium, constant pressure, using a cotton or foam applicator and use back and forth strokes. As the product begins to dry out, buff off the excess with a 100% cotton towel. Use a large towel or multiple towels and turn it frequently.



Hope this helps

 

[imported_memnuts]

Okay, I've used the search function and don't really see the answer I am looking for.





I want this to be as easy as possible and I am not concerned with necessarily removing the scratches since it is so light I think I will just save the clearcoat and worry about that stuff when it gets worse.



So what do you guys recommend? From my searches, it looks like the P21S/S100 paint cleaner, PPCL or Meguiar's #7(?) is the way to go.

From your statement above I believe all that is necessary is a hand application of P21S GEPC a Z7 wash and re-application of Zaino. The GEPC will remove any layers of sealant ( Zaino and/or Blackfire 2) that is on your finish, gloss and smooth the finish and remove very, very light marring. This product will not remove any obvious surface marring but as you stated that the little marring you have is only detectable under certain lighting conditions. GEPC is very easy to use and gives fantastic results ( hazying is impossible) on near perfect finishes like you describe for your MB. Nothing more is probably necessary at this time.:wavey

 

[matty north]

From your statement above I believe all that is necessary is a hand application of P21S GEPC a Z7 wash and re-application of Zaino. The GEPC will remove any layers of sealant ( Zaino and/or Blackfire 2) that is on your finish, gloss and smooth the finish and remove very, very light marring. This product will not remove any obvious surface marring but as you stated that the little marring you have is only detectable under certain lighting conditions. GEPC is very easy to use and gives fantastic results ( hazying is impossible) on near perfect finishes like you describe for your MB. Nothing more is probably necessary at this time.:wavey

Thanks, I think this is the way I am going to go. I was particularly concerned about the hazing effect and am glad to see your statement that it is impossible. I will add the claying step though since it has been 5 months since the last time.



I actually called Zaino Bros. this morning to pose this very question to them. I've been obessing about this and was on the verge of talking myself into the PC route. Surprisingly, someone at Zaino (not Sal) told me Dawn alone would remove the BF2 and that I would not need paint cleaner or anything else. To just go through the original process I used when first starting the Zaino system.



This seems just way too easy to me but I would like to hear if others think a Dawn wash will remove Blackfire. Anyone tried it? Theoretically, it's not supposed to be able to, but Zaino said that in fact Dawn would strip every bit of BF2 off with ease.



Still, I am going the GEPC route after a Dawn wash and claying. Just to be sure.



Thanks,



Nancy

 

[imported_memnuts]

In reality what Zaino stated is partially correct. Removal of all or some of the BF2 is not necessary anyways. I have in the past interchanged BF2 and Zaino Z5/Z2 without any bonding problems. With that said a Dawn wash well remove any oils that may have settled on the car since its last wash. Personally if I were not going to clay and GEPC I would just wash with Z7 and QD with Z6 and start re-applying Zaino.

By claying and GEPC'ing that red finish will really make that Zaino'd finish look GREAT!! The GEPC is excellent in bringing out the wetness and especially depth in darker colors. This will really make the Zaino sparkle look deep and rich.:wavey