Rambling Thoughts on Acid Rain

Matt M PA

New member
While in the auto parts store yesterday, I lingered in the wax isle as I often do, and was again amazed at some of the claims made by different makers.



No specific makers used here, but one claim that particularly got me was a claim about “helping prevent acid rainâ€�. I work in the ad biz, and when it says “helpsâ€� against acid rain, you can pretty much bet that it does nothing to protect against acid rain. (If it really was a preventer of acid rain it would say so…and this would be a claim they would have to back up.) I suppose just washing your car helps prevent acid rain etching.



Which, in a round-about way, brings me to the point of this post. I find it hard to believe that any wax could actually “preventâ€� acid rain etching. It’s my understanding that acid rain etching is caused by the pollutants left on the surface of the car after the rain evaporates…as well as caused by the microscope effect of water beads and the sun.



If a car’s paint, which is in most cases solvent based, can be etched by acid rain….how could anyone expect a microscopic thin layer of wax to keep it at bay? I mean, think of the caustic chemicals or abrasives required to etch paint the way acid rain does. How could any applied coating really keep this from occurring?



I know that washing after a rain storm, and that keeping the surface waxed is a good measure...but in the end, it seems to me htat we are fighting a loosing battle.



I guess part of the concern is that unless you wash away the acids...you would only seal them in with your sealant or wax. how do you really know you have washed these acids off?



I think I am going to go back to the trick told to me years ago by friends with a body shop. They recommended at tablespoon of baking soda in the wash water. They beleive that it helps neutralize the acids. If I remember correctly, it dissolved into my soapy water and rinsed off without incident. Unless someone here has differing thoughts, I don;t see how it could hurt.
 
Vinegar is another simple additive that may help. Decontamination of the paint requires neutralization of both alkaline and acidic items in/on the surface. Then brought back to a neutral (+/- 7.1) pH.



There are systems to accomplish this, most notably the A-B-C System from ValuGard (Automotive International).



I use it my shop routinely. REALLY cleans the paint.



I firmly believe that several (properly applied) coats of an acrylic polymer sealant provides substantial protection against IFO and acid rain (and bird droppings!) Of course, the sooner those contaminents are removed, the better.



Jim
 
Quote: They believe that it helps neutralize the acids.



~One man’s opinion / observations ~



Your comments on marketing claims - Chemistry – Scientific Fact, Marketing - Science Fiction, Opinion - Varying amounts of the either one



Q:“I find it hard to believe that any wax could actually “prevent� acid rain etching.�

A: The primary protection provided for a modern water-based colour coat is a polythene resin that has a thickness of 2-3 Mils (0.002-0.003�) this is protected by a sacrificial barrier of wax or synthetic polymer sealant. This barrier is all that stands between the environmental contaminants (UV radiation, acid rain, ozone, industrial pollution, rain, road dirt and tar, etc) and the paint film surface. This renewable barrier is less than 0.000001� thick.

Conclusion: If a clear coat of 0.002 –0.003� cannot protect a surface from acid rain then an applied protection of 0.000001� will not either, its just Marketing science fiction



~Hope this helps~



Experience unshared; is knowledge wasted…/Jon

justadumbarchitect *so I question everything*
 
Conclusion: If a clear coat of 0.002 –0.003� cannot protect a surface from acid rain then an applied protection of 0.000001� will not either, its just Marketing science fiction





This conclusion is an inaccurate assumption simply based on the physical depth of a material.



There are characteristics that can not be engineered into the paint or deminish overtime. UV Paint has it but it deminishes.

Products with UV will add protection and will also recharge the paint UV blockers.



A high quality polymer based sealant that contains an anti-corrosive agent, anti-acid agent will be very effective at preventing acid rain from damaging a paint film.



Regular washing with an anti acid soap will extend the life of the sealant neutrilizing any surface acids.



Acid rain is a much greater issue with modern paint films since they are more vulnurable to there damage vs older solvent based paints



That said - The products that you find in stores and in general are not effective. Catch words and vague claims are a tell tell sign that they will not work.



The one I like now is Polymer everyone is placing it on there bottles. We tested one 2 weeks ago upon questoning the Mfg we found that it was mainly silicone oil.
 
TLL said:
The one I like now is Polymer everyone is placing it on there bottles. We tested one 2 weeks ago upon questoning the Mfg we found that it was mainly silicone oil.



A lot of that going around these days!! Pack some silicone oil in with some heavy solvents and get the geniuses over in marketing to slap a fancy 'polymer' label on the bottle and they've got themselves a new "polymer". :rolleyes: They get away with it because most average Joe's will not realize that the protection is gone in one month.
 
Whats more when people review a product on these forums they talk about how great they look right after appling them. Not what they look like over time without reappling or using a booster spray.



Really good products such as a paint sealer/wax are not going to neccessarily stand out at this point. It may take a day or two for their depth and gloss to really blossom as the polymer resins fully harden.



Paint is to valuable to trust it to a Fancy Marketing Deptment that has never rolled up their sleeves and jumped in the trenches.
 
TLL, welcome to Autopia... are you "TLL" over at CorvetteForum?



I agree with you differently on some of the things you have said. First, I don't find that modern paint finishes are any more or less vulnerable to acid rain damage. When these finishes cure, they cure hard. The fact that they are a waterborn formula has little bearing on the durability of the final finish (IMH experience).



I agree with you that NOTHING you can apply to your paint is going to protect againt a substance that's not close to pH neutral. Mineral water spot etching is the chemical opposite of acid rain etching, and it's every bit as damaging.



I'm not aware of an "anti-acid" soap, per se. Most soaps (detergents) will be slightly alkaline, so they are all acid neutralizing. Were you trying to educate us on something we don't know about?



I find your comment regarding "Fancy Marketing Department" a bit harsh. While I agree there is a lot of BS marketing hype, what you're suggesting is mass market products are not tested by people who know how to care for a car. From this I take it you believe no-name brands are better. Do I misread what your saying?



db
 
DavidB-



On the first part we can agree to disagree. When I get a change I will share some research on this.



As far as the anti-acid soaps - Educating would be correct -



Final part - Yes harsh but for the most part accurate. People buy based on marketing. Companies Put the Marketing before the Product.



To be honest in this coutry it is a formula that works for a lot of Businesses if your goal is simply to make money. I ran into one of the guys from (Name Unmentioned) and he gave me The Business 101. He said "Its all about Marketing. They spend a lot of money (millions) and energy on marketing which is great. However, last I heard they had one chemist and his background was in cosmetics. Believe it or not a cosmetic chemist can be of value but it requires so much more.



Some products are much more expensive to create and by the time you factor in a marketing budget you can not be competitive on the store shelf where the consumer is buying based on a combo of price and advertising. For these companies the internet has given them a helping hand



Look to industries where quality is critical and marketing is of no concern to the user. That is where you can find exceptional products. This also where the product are specifically designed to solve issues.



That said there are name brand products that are very good - but the numbers are few.
 
Yea



Where is old Ketchum-If-You-Can. He stopped by when he was in Cali a couple months ago and I just missed him. Anyway :wavey
 
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