Questions about holograms...

R

Redem

New member
Hi.



I seem to have some holograms on the side of my car. What causes holograms and how can i get rid of them? I am pretty new here and my work is very basic. Last weekend I I washed the car and put on some z1 metallic polish followed by nxt tech wax. I did nothing else to the car. All of this was applied by hand.



The holograms seem to show up in bright direct sunlight. I was unable to get a picture of them. What could have caused these holograms? Thanks.
 
Holograms are usually caused by improper machine polishing.



You indicated only hand application of products, but has somebody else taken a polisher to it? Do you have photos? Maybe what you are describing is streaking and not holograms....photos might help others on this forum understand what you are trying to descibe.
 
When I first machine detailed my car for GM Nationals it was perfect, as far as I was concerned. It spent two days on a field in direct sunlight.... no holograms, nothing. After about 4 washes, and some ZCS, I now see holograms, and random scratches all over the car. I use the proper washing proceedure and waffle weave towels to dry... i can't figure it out. I think I laid the ZCS improperly or something, because right after I did it thats when I noticed it. As for the scratches, I can't figure that one out.



DG
 
What both of you are describing are simply just swirls. Swirls occur from scratching you paint while washing. Ultimately, if you drive your car and you wash it (meaning it gets dust or dirt on it at some point) you are almost sure to get swirls occasionally in your paint. They're just micro marring (scratching) of your paint.



To remove them, you pretty much need a machine with the right products to take them out.



Holograms (different than swirls) are actually marring from improper machine polishing which leave trails or lines due to the rotation of the machine (in which case, it happens pretty much exclusively to rotary polishers.)



Read up in the "machine polishing" forum to learn more about the machines, products, and most of all processes if you think you want to take this on yourself.
 
bjlee said:
What both of you are describing are simply just swirls. Swirls occur from scratching you paint while washing. Ultimately, if you drive your car and you wash it (meaning it gets dust or dirt on it at some point) you are almost sure to get swirls occasionally in your paint. They're just micro marring (scratching) of your paint.



To remove them, you pretty much need a machine with the right products to take them out.



Holograms (different than swirls) are actually marring from improper machine polishing which leave trails or lines due to the rotation of the machine (in which case, it happens pretty much exclusively to rotary polishers.)



Read up in the "machine polishing" forum to learn more about the machines, products, and most of all processes if you think you want to take this on yourself.
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I would have to agree with you on that one. There's no way that you can get holograms with hand applications. There's a very very slim chance with a PC, but it's 0.01% of that, but you'll definitely get hologram with a rotary if used incorrectly. You'll deifnitely need to do some machine correction in order to remove your swirls, either via PC or rotary.
 
Ok, I cannot seems to id any type of swirl marks on the car at all. I however can see something that I would call a hologram in direct sunlight. I can hardly reproduce this much less get a picture. It seems to happen around 2 when the car is parked in a certin matter. I could not reproduce the swirls/holograms any other way.





I have had holograms in my car due to someone else buffing the door panel awhile back after some dent repair work. They look the same as what I had back then, but on one side of the car. They also look like lines like you described above. Is it possible that it is just the way the light is reflecting on the car? These *holograms* seem to move with me as I am searching the car. I will try and get pictures by tomorrow.





I did have some work done to my car at the dealer but I really do not think they washed it, and I am sure I would have noticed sooner, its been a month since the dealer.
 
A few ~random thoughts:



Sometimes products cause an effect that looks just like holograms, but is merely residue/etc. from the product. This effect usually goes away after a wash.



And yeah, sometimes light wash-induce marring can look a lot like holograms. This is perhaps a good time to point out that holograms are just another kind of marring...i.e., scratches in the surface of the paint caused by abrasion.



Sometimes products will hide light marring like holograms. Then as the products degrade the holograms become visible. So something like that could be there for quite a while before you ever notice it. Then the product wears, or you clean off some heavy fillers with something like 1Z MP ;) and the holograms are suddenly visible.



1Z MP is *FAR* too mild to remove/correct holograms on most paint, but might do a so-so job of hiding them (at least to some extent, as will NXT). To remove such flaws, you'd need to step up to something more aggressive, at least 1Z Paint Polish, and it might take several applications (especially when working by hand).



I dunno about using NXT after 1Z MP...I'd rather use a heavy carnauba myself, but then I'm no authority on NXT.



I wouldn't be surprised if the paint were pretty marred up, perhaps with lots of holograms, and the marring were perhaps 33% hidden by the 1Z MP/NXT combo (both do a lot of concealing). Sorry if that's really bad news :o Sounds like a more aggressive polishing is in order at any rate.
 
Nxt was the only wax available at the time. I washed the car today. I will see how it turns out in the sun tomorrow. I noticed the holograms a few days after I applied z1 mp( red stuff)? and nxt.





All I did with the z1 green polish was take out some light scratches, and it seems another round will be needed to take them out completely. I hope I am not over polishing with this stuff? No one has washed the car but me, these holograms are on one side of the car, not on the other side where I had them before from a local dent removal shop. I am pretty sure they were not there until recently. So maybe it is swirl marks? The car has only been polished once with 1z mp, and a couple of spot polishes with 1z green polish. It has been waxed twice with nxt.
 
Like accumulator have mentioned. It could be left over residue from recent products that was applied. Have you tried washing the car to see if has changed at all? if not It could be holograms from maybe a previous buff done by the PDR shop?



It's late at night and I've had a long day so if I missed any details previously ignore my comments.
 
Redem said:
Nxt was the only wax available at the time. I washed the car today. I will see how it turns out in the sun tomorrow. I noticed the holograms a few days after I applied z1 mp( red stuff)? and nxt.





All I did with the z1 green polish was take out some light scratches, and it seems another round will be needed to take them out completely. I hope I am not over polishing with this stuff? .. The car has only been polished once with 1z mp, and a couple of spot polishes with 1z green polish. It has been waxed twice with nxt.
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Nah, IMO you're not overpolishing and you could use the 1Z PP (green) again with no worries at all. I always seem to do *numerous* passes and that stuff is really pretty mild.



I'd use the 1Z PP to remove the holograms (or whatever they are), maybe follow up with the 1Z MP (red/pink), and then apply something other than the NXT.



Generally, I'd keep using the 1Z PP until things look the way you want them, even if that means five or six passes. I only use the MP on finishes that're already basically perfect.
 
So the green polish is pretty mild too? How many times can I get away with polishing the same spot with 1z green? I would like to give it a couple more goes for some deeper scrathces that it helped a lot, but do not want to over polish since the car is only 7 months old. I am sure there will be times when I need a full on polish with something harsher than both of these and I would like to leave room for that.



It seems like yesterdays wash removed the holograms. I am not 100% sure but I have not been able to find them.
 
Redem- Perhaps the "holograms" were just excess product after all :nixweiss



I can't really say how often you can polish with any given product....just too many variables. The paint on our Audis and GMs withstands a lot of polishing, including rotary work, over many years, but the clear on my MPV is so thin I have to be careful about what I use on it via PC.



Short answer: if you're working by hand with 1Z PP you won't take off too much clear unless you spend quite a few hours working the same spot.



Working by hand/PC, with 1Z PP, on a new car that hasn't been aggressively polished...well, I honestly don't think you have to worry. IMO you'll get tired of polishing *LONG* before you remove an appreciable amount of clear. I've used 1Z Ultra/Extra (numerous passes, perhaps as many as a dozen), then 1Z PP (several passes), then 1Z MP (several passes) to remove scratches behind door handles on the Audis, and I've done this whole process a few times on the exact same area with no problems.



Consider how deep the scratch is and go from there. If the scratch can be safely removed then go ahead and take off that much clear. If not, just improve it and try not to worry about it. I stop short of the "doesn't catch a fingernail" test; I won't take off that much clear...but as you can probably tell I don't hesitate to remove "normal marring" even if it takes a lot of work.
 
I think I will go ahead and polish out the scratches completely then. When I have all of these scratches out, I take it polishing once a year or so is ok on most cars. The 1z mp is pretty safe to use every 3 months, I believe I have asked you these questions about 50 times. I have had such bad luck with dents and scratches in the car and really do not want to harm the paint. It is a 07 toyota camry in metallic grey if that helps any, any tips on dealing with this type of paint?



Is there a way I can tell when the clear is starting to get thin besides a meter?
 
Redem- As long as you get your wash/dry regimen sorted out you shouldn't need to polish very often. I don't polish much at all because my vehicles simply don't get marred (even the daily drivers/dog-haulers) and that's what I recommend for everybody.



No experience with Totyotas, but I'm confident that you'll quit polishing long before you take off too much clear (how many hours are you really gonna spend on this? Most people quit before they get all the marring out).



No way to tell about the thinned paint...by the time you can see anything (metallics start to look a bit "brighter" and "less rich" than normal) you've taken off so much that you can't park in the sun much any more. But seriously, you just won't do that by hand. I can't *count* the number of times I've polished some of our vehicles over the years and they never had problems; only paint I've thinned too much has been soft single stage and it took *decades* to do that.



So don't scratch the paint and you won't have problems :D
 
Heh, I am trying but the scratches keep coming! I have a couple light cat scratches and one deep scratch. I polished them about 2 times each but they need another go. It was all by hand and it did not take me more than a few minutes for each. I may go ahead and polish them out tomorrow. I washed the car today, will it be ok to use a detail spray to clean the area and polish them out?





After 3 weeks the car is starting to look a bit dull and is missing that extra shine I once had. Would you say this is the mp/nxt combo? I will be getting some collinite for my next round in a couple of months to replace the nxt.
 
Redem said:
Heh, I am trying but the scratches keep coming! I have a couple light cat scratches and one deep scratch. I polished them about 2 times each but they need another go. It was all by hand and it did not take me more than a few minutes for each. I may go ahead and polish them out tomorrow. I washed the car today, will it be ok to use a detail spray to clean the area and polish them out?
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If the care doesn't get too dusty overnight it oughta be OK. "Two times" for a "few minutes" huh ;) Heh heh heh....must've taken me well over half an hour to remove the scratches from behind the Audi's doorhandle :eek:



But if any of them are really deep remember that it's only smart to do *so* much. Still, I just can't imagine anybody overdoing it by hand. Six, eight passes...I do that sort of work all the time with no problem. This is some *very* mild correction we're talking about so it takes a lot of it to effect improvements.





After 3 weeks the car is starting to look a bit dull and is missing that extra shine I once had. Would you say this is the mp/nxt combo? I will be getting some collinite for my next round in a couple of months to replace the nxt.
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Must be the NXT...MP *by itself* will almost last me that long. Collinite oughta look good for months, not just weeks.
 
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