Possibly? did things horribly wrong my first attempt

[Harper55987]

First cloudy day in a bit, about 60 degress, most of my produts came in and so I decided to give it a shot to detail my car(BMW 135i Black Saphire paint).

Step #1. Cleaned with ONR and followed instructions. No complaints! Seemed to work great

Step #2. Clayed the car. Possibly the owner before me tried to clay some areas? Trunk was much worse then hood, etc

Seemed to go ok... Used about 75grams for the whole car and about 8oz of clay lube in total. Kind of applied the lube heavily since I didn't want to risk marring. Folded the clay over about 8 times in total and then threw it away. Remaining clay from the bar was placed in a ziploc with some lube sprayed in. Process went: Clay a panel or half panel (depending on size), cleanup with some QD and a microfiber.



Step #3. Eyeballed an area of the hood and decided to give the buffing a shot. My plan was 105,205, then sealant. I have a PC 7424.

Used an Orange Uber 5.5" Pad. Applied a thin amount of product as an X on the pad (kind of scraped it along the pad so it wasn't goopy) and started to buff an area as my test spot.

Basically, after watching videos and reading, I set the DA level on the area and spun it up to about a speed of 4. Covered the area I was going to buff quickly with the product and then moved speed to about 5.5 to do my section passes. I ended up choosing to do 4 or 5 times over each spot across and up and down. Once completed, I turned off the DA, let it spin down, then removed.



Sounded fine in theory but when I actually did this... Splatter everywhere. And when I would turn the DA off and then remove the pad, huge gob of product would be left I'd have to QD off.



Covered the section with material (Future noted I think I'll need a smaller section but I'll improve)

Finished and removed DA (notice gob of product at top left and all the white splatter):

Amount left on pad after buffing:

Is this normal? Every video I watched before this I didn't see the pro's have this problem or read anything related other then:

don't spin the DA if it isn't in full contact with the car or you'll get product everywhere.

I followed this rule but even when in contact with the car it was bad. All over!!!



Any ideas? Is this normal and that is why detailing is an art form? Thanks,

 

[pwaug]

Were you applying pressure on the PC when you turned it on???

 

[Harper55987]

Hmm. I believe it was...

I would have had my hand covering it but definitely not as much pressure as when I actually buffed. (so maybe DA+1lb at start. Then DA + 5lb or so on buffing)

However, even when I was buffing it was still generating new splatter? Was i not keeping the bad level enough so that it was going side to side??

 

[Detail Impressions]

My guess is to much product on the pad to start, try reducing the amount of product with same technique and check the results. Pea size dots on the pad, maybe three dots.

 

[Dan]

Less product and smear it around the pad with your fingers.

 

[brownbob06]

You do need to start with more than 3 pea sized dabs... You'll run out of product quicker than **** if you only start with 3 pea sized dabs...

 

[brownbob06]

Also, we're you happy with the results? Your thread said "horribly wrong on my first detail." Usually that means way worse than splatter lol

 

[Dan]

You do need to start with more than 3 pea sized dabs... You'll run out of product quicker than **** if you only start with 3 pea sized dabs...

That really depends. Three generous pea sized drops of something like HD Speed goes REALLY far.

 

[Accumulator]

Harper55987- A few things come to mind:



-Research the Kevin Brown Method. For starters, you need to properly prime the pads when using stuff like M105.

-Work a smaller area than that, at least at first (I never work areas that big with M105).

-Don't start by spreading the product out when using M105.

-Work M105 at speed 6 exclusively.



Note that the above are based on *my* experiences with M105 and that others might have different opinions. But I've never had any problems using M105 either



And no, IMO (and Kevin's ) detailing is not some esoteric art form, it's just a craft that can be learned/mastered by most anybody. But there *is* a bit of a learning curve.



FWIW, IMO M105/M205/sealant isn't the easiest way to do this stuff. Harder to get right than some other approaches I can think of, but hey...that's the stuff you have and you oughta be able to get it working OK without too much trouble.

 

[brownbob06]

That really depends. Three generous pea sized drops of something like HD Speed goes REALLY far.

I guess when I think "pea sized drops" I think of the size of an actual pea lol.



And 3 pea sized drops will get you far with Speed, but not on a fresh pad. At least not IME, but like I said, when I think "pea sized drop" I think pea sized, and I would assume most people new to detailing, or at least machine polishing, would think the same.

 

[Accumulator]

Heh heh, if somebody's using the M105/M205 twins, I wouldn't muddy the water by talking about what works best with something like Speed



IMO M105/M205 are all about proper pad priming (and it takes a bit of product!) and it's the "reloading" of the pad that can get tricky as the pad can load up with product/cut-off paint. Easiest way to get good results with M105/m205 is to use a large number of pads, especially if there's no air compressor handy for quick pad cleaning.



And it's important to remember that these products don't break down, they stay abrasive. Gotta be careful buffing off the M105 (I use a spritz of M134). And then there's the whole issue of the oils in M205...

 

[imported_Cardaddy]

Looks like you didn't prime the pad. The "X" was thickest in the middle, hence your 'blob' on the pad.



You need to put a spiral of 105 on the pad, then use your finger (laying flat) and wipe the pad while you turn it with your other hand, pushing the material down into the pad as you go around it. Then take your thumbs, fingers, etc. and work the 105 into the pad all around... looking for any dry spots... make sure the entire pad is primed. Now 'priming' the pad and 'soaking' the pad are two different matters. Just work the material down into the pad evenly but not down to the middle of the pad, just down ¼" or so.



Then you apply "3 pea sized drops" which are more like pencil eraser sized drops, black eyed pea drops.



Turn the speed down on the PC to 2 max. Place it on the surface, turn it on and move it NO WIDER than your shoulders. (If you'll work inside your shoulders you'll get better results and it's a lot easier to keep the pad level.) Quickly go over your section, L-R, Up-Down. Stop the machine... set your speed to 4½~5... place it back on the surface, then start working the section.



With 105 you're going to have to keep your arm speed down, and not work it too long on the surface. I've seen it only want to work for one section pass! No problem working it just a couple section passes either. It'll let you know when too long is too long! Once it gets where it doesn't want to come off, then you know when to stop. No sense in marring the surface trying to get the darned stuff off.ray1:



M105 is a great tool, but the reason M101 has become so popular is because it gives all the cut, but hardly any of the nightmares of 105. It'll work much longer and come off much easier. That being said, priming the pad with Megs UC then using pea sized drops of 105 gives you the 'cut' but nowhere near the headaches.



Also, make sure you 'clean on the fly'.... a LOT! These products have a ton of cut, and by doing so they fill up the pad fairly quickly. Both the brush and a good terry towel are as important as the buffer and pad.

 

[Accumulator]

...Turn the speed down on the PC to 2 max...[then after spreading]...Stop the machine... set your speed to 4½~5...

Huh, not the way I use M105 at all :nixweiss

 

[Harper55987]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

#1. I don't think it was the amount of product (then again. I am beginning and you are the experts but I did watch close). I checked several images and review sites and followed their amount



#2. I think not priming the pad was my biggest mistake. I was assuming if I did an X or circle and then spread the product over my section it would "prime" itself. You can tell I didn't prime by the concentration of where my small X on the pad turned in to a circle at only the center of the pad.



#3. I definitely need a smaller area. This is my fault and I got carried away. Easy to fix on the next time.



#4. You say don't spread out the product?? I watched several videos and they recommended to cover the entire area first. Is this 105 exclusive or was it just the person giving the video's method? I did read the 105 dries fairly quickly compared to some others.



All in all, where I did my buffing and cleaned up, things did look great! Maybe I'm not so far off all of the dust and cleanup just scared me

 

[Harper55987]

Harper55987- A few things come to mind:



-Research the Kevin Brown Method. For starters, you need to properly prime the pads when using stuff like M105.

-Work a smaller area than that, at least at first (I never work areas that big with M105).

-Don't start by spreading the product out when using M105.

-Work M105 at speed 6 exclusively.



Note that the above are based on *my* experiences with M105 and that others might have different opinions. But I've never had any problems using M105 either



And no, IMO (and Kevin's ) detailing is not some esoteric art form, it's just a craft that can be learned/mastered by most anybody. But there *is* a bit of a learning curve.



FWIW, IMO M105/M205/sealant isn't the easiest way to do this stuff. Harder to get right than some other approaches I can think of, but hey...that's the stuff you have and you oughta be able to get it working OK without too much trouble.

I think I will be ok with 105/205. What is an "easier" compound as an example?

Finally, how do you get rid of the "blob" when you lift the DA off of the paint? Or will this go away once I finally prime the pad correctly?

 

[brownbob06]

I never have a problem with a blob... I think it really is just that you're using too much product an it's caked on in that one spot. I've never used 105 but every product I have used I've been fine with a spiral or several dots spread around the pad to prime it.

 

[pwaug]

[quote name='Harper55987']I think I will be ok with 105/205. What is an "easier" compound as an example?

QUOTE]



HD Cut followed by HD Polish and Polish won't leave behind the heavy oils like 205.

 

[Nth Degree]

I get that "blob" when my pad is still wet from cleaning. It tends to cause a liquid slurry mess. Clean pad with terry towel and go over spot again. The amount of product used will matter too.

 

[brownbob06]

Ill second nth degree. I got te slinging mess when I played around with misting my pad with QD.

 

[Accumulator]

... I think not priming the pad was my biggest mistake. I was assuming if I did an X or circle and then spread the product over my section it would "prime" itself. You can tell I didn't prime by the concentration of where my small X on the pad turned in to a circle at only the center of the pad...

Find the thread/post where Kevin Brown goes into detail about this stuff. That's the best way to figure it out. Really is worth the dreaded search

..#4. You say don't spread out the product?? I watched several videos and they recommended to cover the entire area first. Is this 105 exclusive or was it just the person giving the video's method? I did read the 105 dries fairly quickly compared to some others...

I spread other products, but not M105 (less critical with M205), in large part because of the way it flashes/dries so fast. I guess I "cover the area" with my first (arm) passes, but I'm *correcting*, not just "spreading".

All in all, where I did my buffing and cleaned up, things did look great! Maybe I'm not so far off all of the dust and cleanup just scared me

That's good to hear :xyxthumbs



Just gotta get the priming sorted out and then you'll start finding what works best for *you*. As you can see, different people do this stuff differently, even though "it's still the same M105".

I think I will be ok with 105/205. What is an "easier" compound as an example?

Unless you're dealing with very hard clear I'd probably recommend a compound from Optimum or 3D/HD isntead. Hard for me to be more helpful as I hardly ever do serious correction any more and when I do I use M105 for the heavy lifting; I find it pretty easy to use for some reason.



BUT...I just use the M105 to do the most aggressive work and then switch to something easier like Uno. The never Meguiar's compounds (what???...M101 maybe ) will probably take over for the M105 if I ever buy more compound.



It's M205 that I'd want to replace...HD Polish or even 1Z High Gloss or Menzerna.

Finally, how do you get rid of the "blob" when you lift the DA off of the paint? Or will this go away once I finally prime the pad correctly?

It oughta become much less of a problem when you get the amount/priming/working all sorted out. "Blobs" of product, especially *dried* product, are *VERY BAD* with M105. They can lead to all sorts of not-so-micro marring. Remember, the M105 *never* breaks down, it's *always* abrasive. You can trash the finish just wiping it off wrong!



When there's a clump of (M105) product on the pad, it's not gonna cut uniformly, it'll be like a "rock" stuck in the pad compared to the rest of the pad where the product is mostly "within the pores of the foam". Again, you just *gotta* see the stuff Kevin has put together about this stuff, it makes it all very clear.



[QUOTEBrownbob06]I've never used 105 but every product I have used I've been fine with a spiral or several dots spread around the pad to prime it.

M105 is more finicky about this than any other product I've ever used...and that's going back nearly 40 years