please help me prove him wrong!!

D

dtailmycar

New member
Guys recently I decided to get more into detailing and buy a buffing machine, I ended up with a PC 7424, since it really was a heavy favorite on all detailing forums. I decided to went over to a body repair shop just in front of my house and asked the manager for a few hints on products and techniques. He told me if I wanted to get a nice shine I should get a rotary with a couple of wool pads. After this I decided to went over and show him my pc. He told me that it was not designed to polish cars, since it was kind of a "grinder" to polish unpainted metal or other types of hardwoods. Another thing I was very confused with, was the fact that he told me paint was like humans, so it needed to get some air into it, so I shouldn't seal it with carnaubas, silicons, teflon or oder types of waxes (he is a loyal user of 3M products). In fact he told me that the PC backing plate assembly wasn't strong enough to create the exact heat or buffing action necesary to burn the polish nicely. He finished his critics saying that pc size didn't allow to a nice polish since it was to small to glide nicely around the paint.

ps: the whole conversation was because of me telling him that I didn't get the results I wanted with the pc and other products, which I have discover that won't do the job. Is he correct on all of this.

I also wanted to ask you guys what backing plate should I get for my PC, and what pads to compliment each other.

thanks!!
 
Ah, the old body shop "the paint needs to breathe" thing. I guess they get this half right because they are working with fresh paint all the time.



The PC (or rotary, for that matter) can't work miracles, but needs to be applied properly and may require the mastering of some techniques to really acheive the work it is capable of. Don't lose hope, read more and ask questions.
 
Wool pads don't leave a shiny surface. They leave a hazed, micromarred surface.



If you're having trouble with detailing products, and procedures, ask your questions here. There are tons of misinformed people out there, and they love to spread poor information to others. This guy you talked to is one of them.



"He finished his critics saying that pc size didn't allow to a nice polish since it was to small to glide nicely around the paint."

Guess what? SMALL pads allow for more polishing ability.

If the motor is small/weak, that can prevent much correction from happening. But you can't just look at the pad size and tell how capable the machine is.
 
Yes, please ask your quesions here. If we want to conquer the world and soon the universe, we can't have these rebels with this misinformation of how to do things. The mothership will be proud if you use the right products/process.
 
Just mentioning 3M in your post tells me about this dork

Anyone loyal to 3M is definately in the dark ages



Wool pads on modern paint, not on your life. they are too soft

Paint needs to breath after it's applied but not 3 months later and beyond

Many of these bodyshops are becoming like many detail shops here in oz.



How does he expect paint to stay like new or better even for years if you do not apply any protectants to it.

The sun's harsh rays will oxidise paint big time in less than six months
 
A body shop is the wrong place to go to ask about detailing. Most of them can't even buff out a car without leaving rotary swirls everywhere.
 
Yes, there are so many people who hang out here who know so much more about the subject.



For example, Scottwax does stunning work that would turn heads anywhere. If I'm not mistaken, he works completely with a PC.



Just stick with the guys here, and watch your knowledge base and expertise grow.
 
dtailmycar said:
I also wanted to ask you guys what backing plate should I get for my PC, and what pads to compliment each other.

thanks!!
Click to expand...



There will be as many opinions as members here at Autopia. That being said, the 6 inch Flexible, Urethane Backing Plate http://www.properautocare.com/flbaplfordup.html and 6-1/2 inch pads http://www.properautocare.com/hi612infopaa.html have served me well. If I'm not mistaken, these pads are manufactured by Lake Country. I have had them a few years now and they seem to be holding up well using both the rotory and PC. I would suggest one (1) yellow compounding pad two (2) white polishing pads and one (1) Black or Red polishing pad. That combination will get you through most detailing projects without breaking the bank. Of course the more pads the better!



Next, I like to do my experimenting on the trunk lid. It's large enough to see your progress but small enough to try different products and/or processes as you figure out the machine, the finish and the product and pad combination.



As for products, another subject that will spark fierce discussion. To start out, you can probably find Meguiars DACP, M80 maybe some M09 locally and to finish it off, top everything with NXT.



As always start with the least agressive product and pad combination to do the job. Take your time, be patient, it takes a little practice. Once you get into this, the product combination is endless!



This can get addictive and potentially damaging to your wallet! You have been warned!



Where are you located? There may be someone in the area that can help you get started.
 
You proved him wrong and you know he was out there with his comments.



Just remember though that trying to change his thought on this will yield negative results so don't even try it.



Go on about your business, research here, and practice with your tools. You will produce results worth bragging about by following the lead of Autopian members and not discussing true details with body shop workers.



Have fun!
 
SVR said:
Just mentioning 3M in your post tells me about this dork

Anyone loyal to 3M is definately in the dark ages
Click to expand...



I wouldn't go as far to say that because it is an exaggeration. The folks who use some 3M products here get very impressive results and 3M does have up-to-date detailing products to keep up with the times.





The PC will often take more time to correct the defects, especially when it comes to stuff worse than micro marring but it can produce excellent results. Using a PC to really burnish the paint once its corrected by a rotary ( especially on dark colors) can really lead to that spectacular, "WOW" Autopian shine. :bow
 
dtailmycar said:
Guys recently I decided to get more into detailing and buy a buffing machine, I ended up with a PC 7424, since it really was a heavy favorite on all detailing forums. I decided to went over to a body repair shop just in front of my house and asked the manager for a few hints on products and techniques. He told me if I wanted to get a nice shine I should get a rotary with a couple of wool pads. After this I decided to went over and show him my pc. He told me that it was not designed to polish cars, since it was kind of a "grinder" to polish unpainted metal or other types of hardwoods. Another thing I was very confused with, was the fact that he told me paint was like humans, so it needed to get some air into it, so I shouldn't seal it with carnaubas, silicons, teflon or oder types of waxes (he is a loyal user of 3M products). In fact he told me that the PC backing plate assembly wasn't strong enough to create the exact heat or buffing action necesary to burn the polish nicely. He finished his critics saying that pc size didn't allow to a nice polish since it was to small to glide nicely around the paint.

ps: the whole conversation was because of me telling him that I didn't get the results I wanted with the pc and other products, which I have discover that won't do the job. Is he correct on all of this.

I also wanted to ask you guys what backing plate should I get for my PC, and what pads to compliment each other.

thanks!!
Click to expand...



This guy is not totally wrong here.



If you want to burnish the paint then yea, in my opinion a PC isn't going to cut it. You'll need the heat and friction provided by a rotary. This is something that you are already aware of by your comments.



As Bill noted, 3M makes some fine products and they are pretty much the leader in manufacturing of car care products. Many others look at what they are producing and copy from them.



Paint doesn't need to get air "into it" but rather fresh paint needs to cure, or it needs to "release" solvents. Waxes though won't impede this process as long as they are solvent and cleaner free. Body shop guys work with fresh paint so thier process for buffing is going to be different from a detailer who works on OEM paint.



Lastly, clear coat paint doesn't oxidize like single stage paints.



Anthony
 
Wow Anthony I am shocked at your comments about 3M

Their compounds and polishes but they are dusty, can be double the price of menzerna $55- 70 dollars for 1 litre) when menz is $30 and miles ahead of them in tech and results and I doubt that 3M has the products that four star, einszett, werkstatt carlack and others have



You would probably get brilliant results with any brand as your a true master and far superior to me
 
Choose Werkstatt, choose 3M, choose Ardex. It doesn't matter. Each one has a way to make it work best. Product brand is the smallest variable in the situation under discussion.



The PC will do the job, but be prepared to trade time for safety. I'm not surprised that he was unfamiliar with the use of the PC on auto finishes; that tool is completely out of place in his environment. It would take far too long for him to get great results. And he's right in that it IS a woodworking tool that has been adapted to the automotive world.



Pick ONE supplier for your pads... not because there aren't differences, but because the color coding of density is different among them and it's a PITA when you have green, blue, grey, white, yellow, orange, etc and you don't know which is the light cutting pad and which is the heavy polishing pad because some of your pads are from Sonus and some are from Proper Auto Care and some are from Edge and some are from Meguiar's.



For me, I prefer a slightly smaller, slightly flexible backing plate. I think it's safer (the edge of the plate is away from the edge of the pad) and I can exert more pressure on a smaller area (all the passes overlap each other anyhow). I have a smaller plate from Autopia and a smaller plate from Meguiar's, I like them both. But I'll use the large plate too. It's not THAT much of an issue.



You wrote that you didn't get the results you were looking for, but you also didn't say what you were trying to do nor what you used to try to get the job done. I wrote a tutorial on how to get rotary results from a PC.... here's the link , it might help a bit.



Since then I've started using the rotary. But the PC is safer, and I got several years of fantastic results with mine. Read this article for some great examples.





Tom
 
SVR said:
Wow Anthony I am shocked at your comments about 3M

Their compounds and polishes but they are dusty, can be double the price of menzerna $55- 70 dollars for 1 litre) when menz is $30 and miles ahead of them in tech and results and I doubt that 3M has the products that four star, einszett, werkstatt carlack and others have



You would probably get brilliant results with any brand as your a true master and far superior to me
Click to expand...



Yes they are pricey and while I don't care for their new formulations since the whole VOC complience, they are still seen as one of the top leaders in car care, especially in the body shop market.



Thanks for the kind words but I don't consider myself a "master" at detailing. Just love what I do :D



Anthony
 
right, there's no need to call the person out. just post your factual knowledge and be done with it, don't sweat it. up to them to open or close their minds. and the minute they post something that seems like trolling or flame baiting, ignore them.
 
I have a Porter Cable 7346. It was labeled "Sander" but it's exactly the same as a buffer, except it was sold without the backing plate. (but was much cheaper than the one with it). I have tried a multitude of combinations, and the OUTSTANDING WINNER is the Meguiar's DA Microfiber Kit. 2 pad system and 2 liquids as well. I did a detail on my hood which was estimated at over $1,100 repair cost, and the system brought the hood to a perfect result... WITHOUT painting. The color of the car is BLACK, so you know how hard it is to make that finish sparkle nicely. Just practice and go with the Mag. DA Microfiber kit and you, too will end up a SUPER HAPPY CAMPER! (practice is not really that important, as the hardware and liquids make it almost failure proof) a monkey could probably do a good job using it....:2thumbs:
 
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