Please convince me that there's still hope

S

scholar

New member
I guess some people have it and some don't. well...I DON"T :grrr



frustrating day........



Was a PC user for years, but never was totally successful at getting rid of swirls, so i just concentrated on finishing and LSP. fast forward to today, got my makita last week and tried it on my lightly swirled Red Audi A4.



started with LC white and IP, Prep-All wipe down...Nothing

Meguiars Polishing..Nothing

Green LC Pad...Nothing

Orange LC Pad...Nothing



I MEAN NOTHING!!!! so i washed it again to get rid of IP dust and slapped some PB Natty Blue and called it a day after 8 hours...jeeeez



technique-wise, line -up IP on panel, spread on 600 rpm

1 pass at 900 rpm

2-3 passes at 1500 (bumped to 1700) at the last try

1-2 passes at 900 rpm



i know it doesn't matter, but i tried the makita (with 85RD only) 2 weeks ago on a honda

and I was successful at breaking it down. like i said, i never had success nor even try my swirl removing skills on a PC, but i thought the rotary would at least give me some kind of success.



thanks all
 
Just keep at it, you can do it!



Honda clear is very soft so that's probably why you had success with 85RD on it. Also, Audi clear is notoriously hard which might explain your problems with your car. Maybe try a more aggressive compound? My experience has been that IP is actually pretty mild. I'm new to the rotary myself and I've never worked on an Audi so I can't offer too much in the way of product advise for your car but I'm sure someone else will chime in.
 
There is hope and don't give up!



Slow your speed to 1200 and slow your passes down working the IP into the paint with little pressure keeping the pad wet. Examine the paint and keep an eye on what's happening and this will give you better undestanding of how it works and what you are accomplishing.



Good luck!
 
thanks guys



just frustrating, 4 pads and nothing?



will try again., maybe next week...



will a novice see/make a difference with SIP?
 
scholar said:
thanks guys



just frustrating, 4 pads and nothing?



will try again., maybe next week...



will a novice see/make a difference with SIP?
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Absolutely. Just understand that SIP can be a major PITA sometimes. It can be *very* finicky. If you have problems with it spitting, flashing over, hopping, etc., try adding an ounce of PO106FF or PO85RD to four ounces of SIP. It'll reduce it's cutting ability some, but it'll make it play nicer, give you more working time, and finish off even better than it already does. Also, alot of guys have had problems using SIP with orange LC pads. A couple guys even had their pads smoke(!) on em. Try either the green or the white foam, or even better, a LC purple foamed wool pad.



You might want to pick up a few purple foamed pads... they are far easier to use than foam, cut better, and run cooler. Much safer than foam.



You could also try using the PFW pad with just regular old IP, too. The wool will give you a bit more cutting power.



Don't give up, man, you'll get there!
 
thank you.



i'll try the PFW before SIP.



again, just frustrating that an orange pad didn't make a dent. i'm sure it's technique more than anything.



odd that none of you suggested the LC Yellow. too much?



again, thanks all. will let you know in a week or two....



maybe my username jinxed me.."not too smart, scholar"
 
I see you've gone through a lot of trouble with getting a good correcting combo. I learned (like you) the hard way that a test spot can save hours. You just do the full work on a small section to see if it accomplishes what you want. If the test spot looks perfect, the rest of the car using the same technique should be perfect as well.



And I can attest to the horrors of SIP when it is not working. It gums up in a few seconds and becomes useless. Working times are often less than 30 seconds and it leaves a big gummy residual mess. However, when it works, it is a great tool.
 
scholar said:
thank you.



i'll try the PFW before SIP.



again, just frustrating that an orange pad didn't make a dent. i'm sure it's technique more than anything.



odd that none of you suggested the LC Yellow. too much?



again, thanks all. will let you know in a week or two....



maybe my username jinxed me.."not too smart, scholar"
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Never been able to get that pad to finish down very well. :nixweiss
 
SuperBee364 said:
Never been able to get that pad to finish down very well. :nixweiss
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W3rd.

I hate those d@mn things...



I sent mine back to AG, I just never used em.



SuperBee364 said:
Also, alot of guys have had problems using SIP with orange LC pads. A couple guys even had their pads smoke(!) on em.
Click to expand...



?!?



Come on they must have been doing something wrong...



SIP is my workhorse! Maybe I'm just so used to this polish that it's become what I base practically everything else on, but I don't ever have problems unless its...



-Really humid (just close the garage door)

-Way too cold (35-ish F?)

-Silicone beneath it(this is the worst of all, hopping and huge gummy mess)

-Too much polish or gummed up pad (watch out for this!)



I have fallen in love with the stuff, if worked properly can finish down to an LSP-ready finish. It works fast without holograms, and of course with minimal effort.

IMHO my absolute favorite polish ever made.
 
SIP will really help, but IP should make some correction possible. What type of RIDS are you trying to remove, RIDS swirls, or RIDS straight line scratches (you can see these better in the shade actually). The swirls should be removed, work the product longer, and make sure you have the 6" pads and go at a slow speed 1" per second is would I would do.



I also have frozen diamonds hard Audi paint. 2005 A6, it took a 6 inch orange pad with SIP to clear up swirls on one full breakdown/application, 5 no more than 6 passes at 1500-1700 rpm, then 1 or two passes at 1000 rpm on my flex rotary 3403. Other than that, nothing could fully correct my swirls, I would get about 80% correction with SFX1, 1Z Extra, M105 (although 105 I was not using correctly), SIP is the bomb, and using the prep-all wipe down will be your best friend with SIP.



My .02 about :buffing:

IB
 
charlesaferg said:
W3rd.

I hate those d@mn things...



I sent mine back to AG, I just never used em.



?!?



Come on they must have been doing something wrong...I was surprised to see the names of some of the guys that had their pads smoke. Some were very well respected pros that know their stuff. The orange LC foam pad developed a "don't use with SIP" reputation last summer.



SIP is my workhorse!Same here. It is my go-to polish on *every* detail. Maybe I'm just so used to this polish that it's become what I base practically everything else on, but I don't ever have problems unless its...



-Really humid (just close the garage door)

-Way too cold (35-ish F?)

-Silicone beneath it(this is the worst of all, hopping and huge gummy mess)

-Too much polish or gummed up pad (watch out for this!)



I have fallen in love with the stuff, if worked properly can finish down to an LSP-ready finish. It works fast without holograms, and of course with minimal effort.

IMHO my absolute favorite polish ever made. Add me as another "me too" on this, as well, but with the "medium polish category" qualifier, as my new heavyweight favorite is a tie between M105 and M95.
Click to expand...



And here's a few characters to make the ten char limit....
 
I've been able to correct Audi clear with the rotary and orange pads and the old 3M PI-III RC 05933 (somebody here can probably give other products that're equivalent, HT-EC comes to mind or the newer 3M PI-3000 RC). Light marring came out OK with polishing pads using 3M PI-III MG 05937 (OP oughta work or HT Light Cut). That was with speeds not over 1500.



For really nasty marring, the 3M Extra Cut 05936 did the job, and their new PI-3000 Extra Cut should perform similarly. But expect some significant hazing.



Limited experience indicates that 1Z Intensive oughta work for major correction and 1Z High Gloss should work OK for a follow up. Note that these are both low-RPM-(whne used by rotary) products that should be very safe for a beginner; I'd probably recommend those over anything else currenty on the market (but I have far more experience with the 3M stuff, hence the qualifiers).



Preliminary testing also made it obvious that the LC Purple Foamed Wool pads are *MUCH* safer *and* more effective than orange/yellow foam cutting pads. This is a no-brainer. Don't worry if they leave hazing, a mild-foam-pad follow-up will take care of that.



If I had to buy stuff to correct our Audis, I'd get the two 1Z polishes, some LC PFW pads, and I'd do the aggressive correction via rotary. Then I'd switch to the PC (or in my case the Cyclo) for the follow-up work (a pass with the 1Z Intensive to remove the PFW's hazing and then maybe two-three passes with the 1Z HG).
 
I was in the exact same position as you! A PC owner using a Makita for the first time a couple weeks ago on an Acura (with a bit of body work and I believe respray prior to my mom owning). I could barely dent it with a rotary + IP + yellow pads. Spent all day and gave up depressed--finally worked on finishing/lsp.



I think I had built up a rotary as being God in my mind, but a lot of skill is definitely required.



When I give it a second try in the near future, I'm stepping up to some m105 on a white pad and if that still doesn't dent it I'm taking Bee's advice and picking up some purple foamed wool.



Its funny... I feel like I accomplished more last year with my PC on that car.
 
Maybe veering a bit off topic, but another product I like and that seems to (I stress the word "seems") work within the cutting range of SIP is Prima Swirl. I get about the same working time with it as I do with SIP and hardly any dusting. I then finish with Menz 106 or 85RD.



But, I'm a very loyal fan of Menz SIP. Just had some Prima and wanted to use it and compare to Menz.



HTH
 
Gopher said:
I was in the exact same position as you! A PC owner using a Makita for the first time a couple weeks ago on an Acura (with a bit of body work and I believe respray prior to my mom owning). I could barely dent it with a rotary + IP + yellow pads. Spent all day and gave up depressed--finally worked on finishing/lsp.



I think I had built up a rotary as being God in my mind, but a lot of skill is definitely required.



When I give it a second try in the near future, I'm stepping up to some m105 on a white pad and if that still doesn't dent it I'm taking Bee's advice and picking up some purple foamed wool.



Its funny... I feel like I accomplished more last year with my PC on that car.
Click to expand...
Gopher, exactly my thoughts
 
thanks guys.



Accumulator, I won't be using 1Z (not being stubborn, just being cheap). I will have some SIP (from a buddy). I also have 106ff and 85RD. i'm just confused with doing another step with SIP/White Pad (or polishing pad). won't the 106/white take care of that?



thanks
 
Gopher said:
When I give it a second try in the near future, I'm stepping up to some m105 on a white pad and if that still doesn't dent it I'm taking Bee's advice and picking up some purple foamed wool..
Click to expand...



I'd try the PFW before the more aggressive compound, but that's just me. They are just *so* safe and they really do ratchet the cut up quite a bit.



I also have 106ff and 85RD. i'm just confused with doing another step with SIP/White Pad (or polishing pad). won't the 106/white take care of that?
Click to expand...



I'm not that familiar with the Menzerna stuff, only know from having my Denali done by a member here who used it. I think *I* would consider doing the SIP/white step.



Also, be careful with the 106FF; do a PrepSol wipe or you might have holograms appear out of nowhere weeks/months down the road; what'll happen is you finish the rotary work, give it a pass with the PC/106FF, think things are fine, and then one day much later... *zap* "OMG :eek: Where did *those* come from?"
 
About four years ago, I was in the same boat as a few of you when I first starting using the rotary. I used too much product and it would sling all over and the compounds at the time made lots of hazing that took a lot of polishing to bring back the shine. I would only use the rotary on larger scratches and my pc would be used on the full car. Now wtih purple wool pads, M105, HTEC and SIP polishes/compounds that finish much better, it is very easy for a rotary beginner to get great results quickly. Just be careful of going too fast(1500 rpm or below), using too much product and you will find that the rotary will cut your time by at least 50%.



For the last 3 years or so, I use my rotary for compounding and polishing and only apply cleaner waxes and sealants with the PC. Sometimes I even do that with the rotary! One person asked if they could use SIP with a white pad and I would say yes as I often use a white pads with stronger polishes when doing one step jobs. Finish with M66 or Poliseal and you have a killer one step.



Good luck and don't give up on the rotary!
 
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