Please Check My Procedure

[Boba7523]

Hi guys, I'm a beginner detailer and would to ask for opinions if these products as well as my procedures are correct as I get confused whether to polish first or wax first.



But anyhow, please rearrange my steps if they are in the wrong order, or if there is a better order.



-----------------------------------------------

Equipment: PC7424

Pad List: Lake County Orange, Blue, and White 6.5" Pads

-----------------------------------------------



Wash:

- 2 bucket wash method (Don't have 5 gallon buckets as they're too costly, but have some smaller ones)

- Meguiar's lambswool wash mitt

- Meguiar's Gold Class Wash Soap



Dry

- Dry using The Absorber using the blot method ONLY



Clay

- Clay using Mother's Gold Clay Bar

- Spray Mother's Showtime Instant Detailer





(Do I need use a product here to strip all wax? If I do, please recommend a product. Also, is this in the correct order? Do I strip wax first then polish, or the other way around?)





Polish

- PC7424 with LC 6.5" orange pad (What speed should i polish at?)

- Meguiar's Swirl Remover 2.0



Wax

- PC7424 with LC 6.5" Blue pad (What speed should I apply the wax at?)

- Mother's California Gold Carnauba liquid wax



Final step for protection

Zaino Z-2 Pro

 

[Bert]

Hi guys, I'm a beginner detailer and would to ask for opinions if these products as well as my procedures are correct as I get confused whether to polish first or wax first.



But anyhow, please rearrange my steps if they are in the wrong order, or if there is a better order.



-----------------------------------------------

Equipment: PC7424

Pad List: Lake County Orange, Blue, and White 6.5" Pads

-----------------------------------------------



Wash:

- 2 bucket wash method (Don't have 5 gallon buckets as they're too costly, but have some smaller ones)

- Meguiar's lambswool wash mitt

- Meguiar's Gold Class Wash Soap



Dry

- Dry using The Absorber using the blot method ONLY



Clay

- Clay using Mother's Gold Clay Bar

- Spray Mother's Showtime Instant Detailer





(Do I need use a product here to strip all wax? If I do, please recommend a product. Also, is this in the correct order? Do I strip wax first then polish, or the other way around?)

You don't have to strip the wax, the polish will do that. In some cases polishing can be easier if you remove the wax first so if you want to remove the wax, any All Purpose Cleaner will work fine. If you have a Mirror Glaze distributor near you, you can pick some up over the counter.

Polish

- PC7424 with LC 6.5" orange pad (What speed should i polish at?)

- Meguiar's Swirl Remover 2.0

While the orange pad will remove swirl marks, it will leave a haze on the paint that you will need to clean up with a polishing pad such as the white pade you mentioned above along with a finishing polish. When using the orange and white pad, you will want to use the highest speed on the Porter Cable.

Wax

- PC7424 with LC 6.5" Blue pad (What speed should I apply the wax at?)

- Mother's California Gold Carnauba liquid wax



Final step for protection

Zaino Z-2 Pro

You do not want to put a sealant such as Z-2 over a wax, a sealant cannot bond to a wax. If you want to use both, put Z-2 down first then the Mother's Wax on top. I would probably just use the Z-2 alone but using both is fine. When applying wax use speed 3.

 

[Less]

Quick tip on drying the car. You say you are going to use the Absorber by blotting only. That is by far the safest way to go. However, if you want to save some time, you can use the Absorber to safely wipe the car if you've done a thorough wash and have thoroughly rinsed all contaminants off of the car. If by some chance you do cause some minimal marring it will come just out when you polish.



Or, on second though, don't bother drying at all. Just start claying after you wash.



Other than that, your process is sound. I personally hate Megs #2, I've never had any success with it. I'm not saying it doesn't work, I've just found several other products that are much easier to use.



Also, some 4 or 5.5 inch pads will help the correction process somewhat.

 

[AspenF150]

Agreed, stripping wax is optional on the wash process.



I have an Absorber, not real fond of it. I prefer using a WW MF towel I got from AZ. Works faster & better IMO.



Never tried Megs #2.



I too would apply Zaino first for the protection. The mothers will help make it "pop" Can't go wrong with a PC either.

 

[akoni]

what kind of cars are we dealing with here?



i would also opt for 5.5 or 4 in pads for a pc as they offer much better correcting ability compared to the 6.5 in ones. for compounding and polishing i usually work in at 2-3 and then bump it up to 5-6 to finish it off. waxes i tend to apply by hand using a foam pad. based on your list of products it appears that they are all OTC with the exception of zaino. if that's the case i would probably opt for other otc waxes before using mother's personally.

 

[Boba7523]

Thanks for all the advice! Wow, kind of a lot haha, but VERY useful!!!



1.) Is it effective to go straight to claying without drying the car?

2.) Do you guys have any better products you can suggest me use for a beginner that is cost effective?



I'll be detailing my 370z. It's a dark blue.

I heard Zaino Z2 is very useful and durability is great, that's why I plan on using it.

 

[akimel]

Other than that, your process is sound. I personally hate Megs #2, I've never had any success with it. I'm not saying it doesn't work, I've just found several other products that are much easier to use.

I believe that Boba is actually referring to M09 Swirl Remover, not M02.



Boba, I think you will discover that M09, though a very fine product, will not provide sufficient cut for you to effect any significant paint correction. So consider investing in a bottle of M80. Check out the Accumulator's comments in this recent thread.



Al

 

[Bert]

1.) Is it effective to go straight to claying without drying the car?

When I clay, I use car wash soap as my lubricant. My procedure is to wash my car with a stronger than normal wash to make sure I really clean the surface. I thoroughly rinse the car and don't dry it. Then I wash and clay the car again. I have my wash mitt in one had and the clay in the other and just clay what I had just washed. After that, I go on to polishing or paint cleaning or All in One depending on what the paint needs.

2.) Do you guys have any better products you can suggest me use for a beginner that is cost effective?

What do you have right now. The products you already have may be fine. I am just trying to prevent you from going and buying more stuff when what you have is fine.



For washing, I really like Duragloss's wash. It is very good and can be bought at Napa or Carquest. With it getting cold, I will switch over to Optimum No Rinse Wash and Shine which cannot be purchased locally.



For clay, Clay Magic's Blue is fine and can be bought at most auto stores.



For Polish, I like Menzerna products. Which one you want depends on how bad your paint marring is and how much time and effort you are willing to take to perfect the paint. If you marring is really bad, you may want to use Meguiars 105 before going to your other polishes. Menzerna products cannot be bought locally, Meguiars 105 can in many cases.



For a sealant, Zaino's Z2 is a great product. Zaino, Jeff's Werkstat and Ultima seem to be the best sealants from what I read on here, I have only used Jeff's Werkstat Acrylic Jett so far.



Again, the products you have now will probably be fine, I am just throwing these out incase you don't have everything you need.

I'll be detailing my 370z. It's a dark blue.

I heard Zaino Z2 is very useful and durability is great, that's why I plan on using it.

Zaino products are noted for the durability. You will do fine using Z2.

 

[Boba7523]

Thanks Bert!

While the orange pad will remove swirl marks, it will leave a haze on the paint that you will need to clean up with a polishing pad such as the white pade you mentioned above along with a finishing polish. When using the orange and white pad, you will want to use the highest speed on the Porter Cable.

Can I just try Meguiar's M09 as well for my final polish instead of buying something else? Basically just polish with M09 and orange pad, then finish with another M09 but with white pad. Then I will apply Z3 as my LSP



Oh, and I meant my 350z haha, sorry about that!

 

[Bert]

Thanks Bert!







Can I just try Meguiar's M09 as well for my final polish instead of buying something else? Basically just polish with M09 and orange pad, then finish with another M09 but with white pad. Then I will apply Z3 as my LSP



Oh, and I meant my 350z haha, sorry about that!

I don't know anything about M09 so someone else will need to answer that one. It probably will work but I can't answer for sure.

 

[Boba7523]

No problem Bert.



Does polishing actually permanently remove a very thin layer of the clearcoat? My assumption is that it does, or else why would people want to start with light cutting compounds and move upwards to a more abrasive ones? That being said, is it bad to polish too much as you will remove the clear coat?



I'm just trying to make sense by assuming, so please correct me if I'm incorrect. Thanks!

 

[Patek14]

Thanks for all the advice! Wow, kind of a lot haha, but VERY useful!!!



1.) Is it effective to go straight to claying without drying the car?

2.) Do you guys have any better products you can suggest me use for a beginner that is cost effective?



I'll be detailing my 370z. It's a dark blue.

I heard Zaino Z2 is very useful and durability is great, that's why I plan on using it.

1. I prefer to dry then clay. I use ONR QD for my clay lube and I prefer not to use merely water as a lube for clay. A wet car has too much liquid on it for my ease while claying



2. Optimum products are effective and cheap.

 

[Bert]

Does polishing actually permanently remove a very thin layer of the clearcoat?

Yes it does, the abrasives in the polish are literally abrading the surface. Basically lowering the paint to the point of the swirling if that makes sense. Very similar to what you are doing with sand paper when sanding a block of wood.

My assumption is that it does, or else why would people want to start with light cutting compounds and move upwards to a more abrasive ones?

You got it. The last thing you want to go is go at soft clear with an extremely heavy compound like Meguiars 105, Poorboys SSR 3.0, 3M Extra Cut, etc. and a heavy cutting pad like four ply twisted wool pad. With soft clear you would be removing WAY more clear than you really needed to.



That is why unless you are positive about how hard the clear is, start with a polishing pad (such as Lake Country White or Edge Green or Meguiars Yellow - I think that is the color of Meg's polishing pad) with no stronger than a mild compound like Menzerna Super Intensive Polish or Optimum Compound but preferably a lighter polish like Menzerna Nano Polish or Optimum Polish. If the polishing pad and light polish didn't correct the paint, start working up the ladder till it does. On harder clears you will need to use the heavier polishes and heavier cutting pads and that is fine. But if you use the combinations on softer clear - you could have problems down the road.

That being said, is it bad to polish too much as you will remove the clear coat?

Kinda depends. If all you are doing is using a light pad and a light polish to increase the gloss of the paint but not enough for swirl removal, you are removing so, so little clear that it really doesn't matter. Now, if you have bad washing techniques and twice a year you are compounding the heck out of the paint, you may have problems down the road. Though I know some people who do swirl removal every year for many years and they don't have problems.

I'm just trying to make sense by assuming, so please correct me if I'm incorrect. Thanks!

You seem to be on the right track. Feel free to ask more questions.

 

[Accumulator]

...Can I just try Meguiar's M09 as well for my final polish instead of buying something else? Basically just polish with M09 and orange pad, then finish with another M09 but with white pad. Then I will apply Z3 as my LSP..

As noted, the M09 is *SO* gentle that it might not do much of anything at all (except some temporary filling/hiding).



I would *NOT* use an orange light-cut pad with such a mild product, it's just not a good combo. Better to match M09 with a nice gentle pad and let it do what it can (which isn't much) instead of trying to force it into a category it simply doesn't belong in (that being the type of product that will do significant correction).



Get something like Meguiar's #80 or #83 if you want to use an orange pad. I don't even like orange pads with #80, but rather with genuinely aggressive products that can really benefit from that sort of pad.



Have you verified that Zaino will bond OK to what M09 leaves behind? With all its fillers and Trade Secret Oils, M09 isn't something I would plan to use before a sealant (and doing a rubbing alcohol wipe after M09 would undo most of the benefit from using M09 by removing such stuff). I'd just top the M09 with their NXT if I were using it (but I'd use #80 instead).



So *I* wouldn't recomend that you use M09, nor Optimum polish (which I've used), nor Zaino (which I have *not* used, other than their quite nice AIO).



And yeah, taking off clear is something you need to be judicious about. It sorta gets back to not marring the paint again very much in the first place once you've corrected it. But you can get away with a few quite aggressive corrections, and the sort of thing we're discussing here shouldn't cause any problems even if you do it many times. Learn to live with a bit of imperfection and you shouldn't have any problem.

 

[Boba7523]

^ Hmm... Then which swirl remover is OK for me to apply?

 

[Bert]

Have you verified that Zaino will bond OK to what M09 leaves behind? With all its fillers and Trade Secret Oils, M09 isn't something I would plan to use before a sealant (and doing a rubbing alcohol wipe after M09 would undo most of the benefit from using M09 by removing such stuff). I'd just top the M09 with their NXT if I were using it (but I'd use #80 instead).



So *I* wouldn't recomend that you use M09, nor Optimum polish (which I've used), nor Zaino (which I have *not* used, other than their quite nice AIO).



And yeah, taking off clear is something you need to be judicious about. It sorta gets back to not marring the paint again very much in the first place once you've corrected it. But you can get away with a few quite aggressive corrections, and the sort of thing we're discussing here shouldn't cause any problems even if you do it many times. Learn to live with a bit of imperfection and you shouldn't have any problem.

Hey Accum, is M09 a polish or a glaze? From the way you are describing it, it sounds like a glaze and I agree 100% with you not to use in on an orange pad nor use it under a sealant.

 

[akimel]

Hey Accum, is M09 a polish or a glaze? From the way you are describing it, it sounds like a glaze and I agree 100% with you not to use in on an orange pad nor use it under a sealant.

Interesting question. Since I'm interested in semantics and word usage, let me offer my speculation, if I may.



Looking at the definitions offered in the PC User's Guide, I would guess that M09 would qualify as a "finishing polish," because it does contain diminishing abrasives and therefore can remove very fine swirls, unlike M07, which does not contain diminishing abrasives and thus falls into the category of a "glaze."



In the Meguiars' terminology, M09 is a "cleaner polish," albeit the most gentle cleaner polish within the Meguiars' line, whereas M07 is a "pure polish."



But M09 does contain a lot of polishing oils, which puts it very close to M07. Thus Mike Phillips:



"In approximately 1986 or 1987, Meguiar's introduced a new product called, M09 Swirl Remover. This new product was an in-between product, that is it was part paint cleaner, and part pure polish, it bridged the gap between a product formulated specifically to remove defects, (M01, M02 & M04), and a product formulated to specifically add brilliant gloss, (non-abrasive pure polishes such as M03, M05, & M07). M09 Swirl Remover was a combination product, it was part paint cleaner and part pure polish. It was basically a pure polish with just a little bit of a specific type of diminishing abrasives to give it the ability to remove swirls and fine scratches, but breakdown completely and leave a swirls free finish."



So "finishing polish" or "glaze"? Take your choice.



Cheers,

Al

 

[Accumulator]

Yeah, one of the things that absolutely makes me :hairpull about Meguiar's is the, uhm....inventive way they use certain words. Mike P. and I have had some good-natured :argue about this is the past.



As best I can tell, M09 should be considered a glaze unless it's being use via rotary. It's simply functionally nonabrasive on most paints unless it's used that way.



Unfortunately, people see the "swirl remover" (scare-quotes intentional!) label, and the stuff is for sale everywhere...and this leads to a lot of people buying it and then being disappointed.



IMO almost everybody who buys #9 would be better off buying #80 instead.



Boba7523- To determine the best product for you, we need more info:



-how hard is the paint (sorry I dunno from the stuff on your car)?

-how bad is the marring?

-what LSP do you plan to use?



My usual "if you gotta ask..." advice on polishes is to start with 1Z Paint Polish unless your paint is *very* soft. Or Meguiar's #80, which is milder. I'd top either of those with a good wax like Collinite 476S. This approach is user-friendly (though simplyboa is having troubles with the 1Z PP that I can't for the *life* of me figure out), and it's effective. It removes a lot of marring, hides a little more, and the Collinite lasts a long time and sheds dirt readily. The 1Z PP (or M80)/476S combo is a great starting point.



Using the M80/NXT combo would be even easier and would hide even more, but the NXT isn't nearly as durable as the Collinite.

 

[akimel]

Yeah, one of the things that absolutely makes me :hairpull about Meguiar's is the, uhm....inventive way they use certain words. Mike P. and I have had some good-natured :argue about this is the past.

Haha.



But since Meguiars has been marketing their stuff for over a century, I guess they can be excused for not bringing their terminology into conformity with the terminology of other companies or individuals. But I certainly agree that it would have made everyone's lives easier if they had restricted their use of the word glaze to products like M07 (Show Car Glaze), M03 (Machine Glaze), and M05 (New Car Glaze). But then they had to call M81 "Professional Hand Polish" and M80 "Speed Glaze." Sure makes things confusing, at least initially when one is trying to sort out and compare everyone's products.



The problem, of course, is that the word polish is the most useful word in American discourse to describe what these products do: i.e., they help to make auto paint look shinier, and that is what most of us think of when we think of polish or polishing. I know that some want to restrict the act of polishing to abrasive activity, but in fact the word has a wider semantic range. Consider, e.g., all the products that are sold as shoe polishes. When I polish my shoes, I do not think of myself as abrading my shoes; rather, I think of myself as making them look glossier by the application of a substance that is sold to me as a "shoe polish."



It would actually be interesting to trace the meanings of words like polish, polishing, compound, and cleaner over the decades within the automotive paint and detailing industries. I imagine we would find a diversity of usages. Usage determines the meaning(s) of a word; it is not determined by prescriptive authority, despite what the L'Académie française likes to think.



Cheers,

Al

 

[Accumulator]

... Usage determines the meaning(s) of a word; it is not determined by prescriptive authority, despite what the L'Académie française likes to think...

Heh heh, nice to see L'Académie mentioned when such stuff is discussed



Heh heh#2, I'm just old and stodgy enough to bemoan (if not dismiss) the whole usage-determines-meaning thing; I shudder to think where American English will be a few decades from now



Regarding "polish", I still think that the "contains abrasives" feature oughta be the deciding factor *in a detailing context* but, sigh...I don't get to make the rules.



Sheesh, I still think of good ol' #7 as "Sealer and Reseal Glaze"!