Paint Darkening = Cheap Chemical Staining, Comments?

G

Gen2

New member
Hi guys, I would really like to hear your opinions on this topic. It all started when some one in our local forum asking for products that can darken the car color and this is what I replied to him,



From all the products I used, Clearkote RMG + Victoria Concours Red Wax will give you the best darkening effect, IMO.



Subsequently, Mr S (another member in the forum) posted a reply to me saying,

beware of products that darken your paint...it merely contains cheap chemicals that stains your clearcoat...no magic formulations that's god send for all us detailers



My reply,

That's something new, I suggest why not you do a posting in Autopia (where many detailing experts are over there) regarding this issue, saying products like Pinnacle, Zymol, Swissvax, Clearkote and so on are using cheap chemicals that stain the paint. I will be very interested to see the replies and learn from the posting.



His reply,

you have something to add or have you ever worked with any chemists or asked them how some of the wax do darken the paint while some don't? I have and that's what I was told...hmmm maybe my chemists must have lied to me? (which is entirely possible) Surely there must be some dark space-age wax manufacturing techniques or you must have know something that I'm too shallow to know, right? Maybe you can shared with us something I don't already know then perhaps we don't have to be asked to refer to Autopia for eveything you don't have facts for or you just cannot understand...huh??? Is that all your detailing knowledge are limited to...whatever is written on Autopia? Something like..."Scottwax is using Cyclo orbital so it must be damm good, right?"



These are the exact postings that were posted in our forum and some of the later postings have gone slightly off topic from what we are going to discuss here today. So does anyone knows is there any true to this statement,



beware of products that darken your paint...it merely contains cheap chemicals that stains your clearcoat...



Any input will be much appreciated, thanks.
 
If they stain the clear coat, what color do they stain it? My black turns darker black, so it must stain in a dark color, but my red also turn darker red. If I use the same wax on white shouldn't it then turn gray or maybe pink. Maybe the wax is made from ground up chameleons and just knows what color to change.



Just random thoughts. I don't put much faith in anyone who defends his facts by being argumentative rather than providing real proof.



I'm sure someone else will chime in with some facts. I'm not a chemist so I don't have a clue.
 
That guy is a moron.



As far as darkening paint or giving that affect ive found most carnuabas do this. Some call it *richening* the color of the paint and some call it *darkening* the paint. Obviuosly it isnt permanent and as soon as the wax wears off it wont have a rich/dark look anymore.



Megs #26 is very very very good at darkening/richening the appearance of paint for example.
 
Megs waxes darkening paint is almost their signature. Whenever I've used them the effect fades after some time. Nothing permanent there.
 
Gen2 said:
Hi guys, I would really like to hear your opinions on this topic. It all started when some one in our local forum asking for products that can darken the car color and this is what I replied to him,



From all the products I used, Clearkote RMG + Victoria Concours Red Wax will give you the best darkening effect, IMO.



Subsequently, Mr S (another member in the forum) posted a reply to me saying,

beware of products that darken your paint...it merely contains cheap chemicals that stains your clearcoat...no magic formulations that's god send for all us detailers



My reply,

That's something new, I suggest why not you do a posting in Autopia (where many detailing experts are over there) regarding this issue, saying products like Pinnacle, Zymol, Swissvax, Clearkote and so on are using cheap chemicals that stain the paint. I will be very interested to see the replies and learn from the posting.



His reply,

you have something to add or have you ever worked with any chemists or asked them how some of the wax do darken the paint while some don't? I have and that's what I was told...hmmm maybe my chemists must have lied to me? (which is entirely possible) Surely there must be some dark space-age wax manufacturing techniques or you must have know something that I'm too shallow to know, right? Maybe you can shared with us something I don't already know then perhaps we don't have to be asked to refer to Autopia for eveything you don't have facts for or you just cannot understand...huh??? Is that all your detailing knowledge are limited to...whatever is written on Autopia? Something like..."Scottwax is using Cyclo orbital so it must be damm good, right?"



These are the exact postings that were posted in our forum and some of the later postings have gone slightly off topic from what we are going to discuss here today. So does anyone knows is there any true to this statement,



beware of products that darken your paint...it merely contains cheap chemicals that stains your clearcoat...



Any input will be much appreciated, thanks.
Click to expand...



wow, someone has some carnuba stuck up their rear. What forum is this from?
 
I was just thinkin about something.

Ya know most of the chemicals used in ANY detailing product is cheap, i mean really really cheap.

What makes products expensive is the manucturing, packageing and the name. Advertising and shipping also play a big role.



Products arent expensive becuase of the chemicals used.
 
BlueZero said:
If they stain the clear coat, what color do they stain it? My black turns darker black, so it must stain in a dark color, but my red also turn darker red. If I use the same wax on white shouldn't it then turn gray or maybe pink. Maybe the wax is made from ground up chameleons and just knows what color to change.



Just random thoughts. I don't put much faith in anyone who defends his facts by being argumentative rather than providing real proof.



I'm sure someone else will chime in with some facts. I'm not a chemist so I don't have a clue.
Click to expand...



My thoughts exactly, but same as you, I am no chemist nor do I have any first hand information on it too. Thanks for the input so far and hopefully we will hear more comment on this ;) .
 
The darkening effect that some product display are caused by the way they reflect and refract light, not anything in them that stains your clear-coat or the paint surface. This guy is a person to ignore.
 
Coupe said:
Megs #26 is very very very good at darkening/richening the appearance of paint for example.
Click to expand...



Just wait till you try the new stuff that's coming out. I tested out a lab sample last weekend and it's even darker then #26. I hope to play with it some more this weekend.
 
BlueZero said:
Just wait till you try the new stuff that's coming out. I tested out a lab sample last weekend and it's even darker then #26. I hope to play with it some more this weekend.
Click to expand...

What are you permitted to tell us about it...apart from its darkening effect?
 
Post deleted...



Sorry guys but I don't want to start any arguments and I really had no intentions of shilling. I just wanted to share a new product, but I totally understand. I hope there are no hard feelings.
 
What credentials does that guy have himself Gen2, anything worthwhile?



It looks like you may struck a nerve with him too after noticing his tone in the second reply...
 
BlueZero said:
Hope I don't come across as a shill, that is not my intention at all.
Click to expand...



Hopefully this won't turn into a huge :argue (yeah, right!), but if you don't want to come across as a shill, you shouldn't have mentioned it. I think it's great that companies do beta testing, as long as the purpose is product development/debugging.



A couple of years ago Meguiar's offered certain members of their forum all of the new products for that year (the year they introduced all the brushes, as well as several new chemicals), for free, as long as a review was posted for all the products on MOL or another detailing forum within some timeframe. Additionally it was offered that if you participated you would also get all the new products for next year, shortly before they were released. These products were already finalized, this was not beta testing, it was a deliberate attempt to create "buzz" for the products. The dangling carrot of additional free product the following year ensured that no one looked in the mouth of the gift horse and gave any bad reviews.



That was marketing, but in this format, it's shilling, if it's not revealed the circumstances under which the product was received...I guess. It's a pretty fine line. The Meguiar's offer noted above was couched in wording like "as a respected member of the forum" or "as a skilled detailer" you have been selected to be a tester, or some other ego-stroking. People who are selected as beta testers for products arguably have reason to be proud of their selection, as it should indicate some skill/experience/objectivity, but in our format here, how would this be determined? Through internet posting, and likely some phone conversation? Is that really valid?



It's recently been suggested that beta testers for a certain product rally to the defense of that product as some sort of unwritten pact of loyalty required to remain in good graces and remain a beta tester, with all the free product and ego-boosting that entails. It's fine to be a guru, I just don't think that you should want to be a guru for other reasons than it puffs up your chest or makes you think you have a bigger appendage. Just like wanting to control or have power over people makes you a bad choice for a cop (rather than wanting to help people or remove bad guys).



OH WAIT--I was just at MOL and I see this is the "standard" Meg's guerilla marketing, given the number of threads, it was obviously encouraged/required to post the results of this "beta-testing". I'm sorry, that makes no sense. If you are really trying to develop a product, you don't post your testing to an open forum. Pardon me if I have been unable to locate the proper information, but this seems to amount to simply free advertising and buzz-building for a soon-to-be-released product, as was noted earlier in this post.



Plenty of companies do this (here and elsewhere)...as I said, it can be a pretty fine line.
 
Setec Astronomy, I'm truly sorry if I came across shilling. I have deleted my post. I realize it can be fine line between shilling and not. I was trying to be careful to stay on the right side of that line but perhaps I should just stay away from the line all together. :)



I will say that I was not given or promised any other compensation, other that this free sample. It's about a 4 oz. bottle.



I hope there are no hard feelings.
 
Hey man, I'm not mad at you! Not my place to say right or wrong really, just expressing an opinion and promoting conversation on the topic.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Hey man, I'm not mad at you! Not my place to say right or wrong really, just expressing an opinion and promoting conversation on the topic.
Click to expand...



I know, I just don't want to be a start trouble. Plus, I didn't intend to hijack this thread.



I wanted to do some more testing this weekend, if I have time. Maybe I will post a little review but I'll ask David or one of the mods first. Guess I just got too excited about something new.
 
99blackSE said:
What credentials does that guy have himself Gen2, anything worthwhile?



It looks like you may struck a nerve with him too after noticing his tone in the second reply...
Click to expand...

Credentials ??? Nothing that I know of except whatever claims he made in his postings. Evidence or proof...none. As for the tone, you have not seen the worst yet.



It seems like the direction of the postings have shifted from the original topic, maybe some other fellow members here who have knowledge on the topic can share some information here. Perhaps some advice from chemists or products developers will be even better.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top