Paint correction plan--do I have the right stuff?

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amcdonal86

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Hi guys, I am thinking of trying to undertake the paint correction process myself as I have done some polishing with a PC7424 in the past and I have enjoyed it quite a bit, although back then I demanded less perfection than I do now! (I also have more knowledge of products and techniques, thanks to this site.)



I am thinking of selling my PC7424 for the Flex VRG 3401 polisher as it seems to be a better piece of equipment, and also works much faster with less vibration (my hand was killing me after a few hours with the PC!).



So this is my plan:



Step 1: Do a wash with Chemical Guys Citrus Wash in high concentration using a grout sponge (ProLine from Lowes?) to strip any existing fillers/sealants/waxes.



Step 2: Clay bar exterior using ONR in clay bar lubrication concentration.



Step 3: On areas where there is significant scratching, use M105 with Lake Country Orange Light Cutting Foam pad.



Step 4: Polish with M205 and Lake Country White Polishing Foam pad.



Step 5: Apply a wax (any recommendations??) with Lake Country Gray Finishing Foam Pad, and remove with MF towels.



Does this sound like it's going to work? Any tips for a semi-novice like me?





I have sent the photos below to a few detailers (including Reflections Auto Salon and Got_Leather, thanks guys) in the area to get quotes for correcting the paint, and I still may end up using their services if I decide not to do it myself.



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amcdonald86- Your plan is right along the lines of "stardard recommendation guidelines" so it oughta work fine.



I will say that some products can be easier to use than the M105/M205 twins, but that doesn't mean you won't do fine with those.



I wouldn't do the wax by machine, but rather by hand. Yeah, I do sometimes apply wax via machine, and recommend that to others, but I guess I have mixed feelings about that approach.



I think I'd recommend you try Collinite 845 Insulator wax. It can be applied via machine with no worries if you do want to try that. It doesn't stain trim, is easy on/off, looks OK, beads well and lasts pretty long, and it sheds dirt well during washing. While there are a scad of great LSPs out there (both waxes and sealants), the 845 is a safe recommendation and, IMO, one of those "everyone should at least try it" products. Cheap too.



All that said...If you can get one of the guys you mentioned to do the work, I'd go that route in a heartbeat. Have them coach you on *maintaining* the finish so you don't mar it up again (much easier said than done). IMO washing without marring can be *much* more difficult than correcting the marring.
 
Thanks for the quick response. I've used Collinite 845 before, I love the stuff. It comes off so easy, and it lasts so long!



What other polishes do you think might work better/easier than M105/205 (I hate when polish is hard to remove or leaves all kinds of flaky crap behind)? Do you think I even need M105 or can I handle everything with an M205 or equivalent?



I agree with you that the professional detailer's, especially the ones I mentioned, work is easily worth the money. However, the paint got this way because 1)a lot of it was already that way when I bought it 4 months ago, and 2)I got lazy and took it through several tunnel washes this winter. Since I've started using ONR for my washing, I haven't noticed additional marring. Plus I'm sure they are more perfectionist than I am (and some "laypeople" think I am anal, but compared to you guys I am probably real sloppy), and I would feel bad ruining their good work after a few months.



I will probably have one of them do the work in the summer when I really want the car to shine!
 
amcdonal86 said:
What other polishes do you think might work better/easier than M105/205 (I hate when polish is hard to remove or leaves all kinds of flaky crap behind)? Do you think I even need M105 or can I handle everything with an M205 or equivalent?
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Yeah, I do think you need M105, and FWIW I'm not one of the people who "push" M205 by using it with a harsh pad.



I found Optumum (spray) Hyper Compound to be *infinitely* more user-friendly than M105...as in, no comparison. BUT it doesn't cut nearly as well via Flex/PC/etc.



Some people have reported great results with...uhm...oh what is it :think: Maybe "Gtechniq P1" or something like that...never used it myself.



Sorry I'm not giving you a good, direct answer...I just don't know whether the effectiveness/ease-of-use trade off is right for you. I used the Optimum on by beater-Tahoe (bought *VERY* used...simply awful) and while it left the RIDS it took care of the "normal swirling" just fine (two-three passes/tries) and wasn't a huge PIA. I coulda used M105 (and did use it to round over a few RIDS a little more), but man-oh-man was the OHC easier! David Fermani said I'd like it, and he was right.



For the follow up polish, M205 is good stuff but the residual oils can bug me...and can leave pseudo-holograms that can be a PIA on certain paints (my "carbon metallic" Yukon, maybe your black paint too). 1Z High Gloss is better for me in that regard and I go back and forth between which of those two I prefer.



If you use M205 on black I'd sure want some of TOL's PrepWash to strip the oils (no, IPA doesn't compare IME).



There's always Menzerna if you want to make the choice even harder ;)



I do* think that upgrading to a Flex 3401, or at least a Griot's 6" Random Orbital would be a great idea. The PC just doesn't cut it for me (and I've had two of 'em for a loooong time). NO WAY would I tackle your job with a PC, I simply wouldn't do it...but if I had to I'd do it all with 4" pads.



Oh, and roger that on having it done professionally *after* winter :xyxthumbs If you do it yourself first, I think it'll give you an improved perspective on the whole thing too, and maybe you'll just want to redo it on your own.
 
Accumulator, thank you for your very helpful and in-depth information and advice! I'm not sure what a lot of these acronyms mean (RIDS, IPA, TOL, etc.). I do know what PIA means, though! :D By the way, what makes OHC better than M105 in terms of ease of use?



Currently I do not have a real garage with a power source, the car is parked in one of those covered-parking "breezeways" and I think I'd get a lot of angry looks if I started polishing/washing my car in there. I guess it's pretty obvious that I should not attempt to do this outdoors or in the sun (how about on a cloudy day?).



Then I have the issue of road rash on the front bumper. I don't even want to look at it. :( I wonder if I can try sanding some of it out and then polishing. But I'm a little bit afraid to do that!
 
I have a black truck and swirl marks on my hood like you do. Those won't go away with a wax, they might seem to fade some buts thats only cause the wax is filling them in.

I have never used a compound to take swirls out, but in 2 weeks I'll be renting a garage( I don't have one)for a day and using a DA and polishing compound. Hopefully I'll get them out!

Everything else sounds good tho. I washed, clayed, and waxed but that won't take the swirls out..
 
amcdonal86 said:
Accumulator, thank you for your very helpful and in-depth information and advice! I'm not sure what a lot of these acronyms mean (RIDS, IPA, TOL, etc.). I do know what PIA means, though! :D
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Heh heh, sorry, didn't mean to be insrutable...I get used to the acronyms and forget that they're not exactly common knowledge. There's some sort of "Secret Decoder Ring" or other list of them around here somewhere...but here are the ones you mentioned:



TOL = Top of the Line, a good source for detailing supplies: Top of the Line Auto Detailing Supplies



RIDS = Random Isolated Deep Scratches = Worse than "normal swirls" marring, sometimes too deep for safe removal.



IPA = Isopropyl Alcohol = Rubbing Alcohol, used to remove waxes and oily residues from polishes (but inferior to the Prep Wash from TOL).

By the way, what makes OHC better than M105 in terms of ease of use?
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M105 can leave tenacious residue and buffing that residue off can leave micromarring (which is generally not a big deal). It dries out faster than the OHC, which exacerbates the residue issue. It's still good stuff but I'm a big fan of easy-to-use products, and the OHC is *very* easy.

Currently I do not have a real garage with a power source, the car is parked in one of those covered-parking "breezeways" and I think I'd get a lot of angry looks if I started polishing/washing my car in there. I guess it's pretty obvious that I should not attempt to do this outdoors or in the sun (how about on a cloudy day?).
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I'm not a big fan of working outside as I consider it an uncontrolled environment. Others here work outside all the time with zero problems...so :nixweiss Some products are sun-friendly (I know nothing about that subject). Cloudy days probably don't provide sufficiently good lighting for adequate inspection.



I think you oughta have a pro tackle it, given the lack of facilities.



Then I have the issue of road rash on the front bumper. I don't even want to look at it. :( I wonder if I can try sanding some of it out and then polishing. But I'm a little bit afraid to do that!
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Glad you're afraid to tackle it, that's your common sense speaking ;) Seriously, that's the sort of thing that people try and promptly regret in a big way. Think polishing is a little daunting? Wetsanding touchups is a whole 'nother ballgame and it's a lot easier to do serious damage than it is to have things turn out OK. Please don't try it.



You could look into DRColorchip (try something like DRColorchip.com). That might tide you over until you write the big check to have a shop fix it right.
 
Your buddy gives you good advice. Road rash is not correctable if it is down through the clearcoat. Touch-ups look worse. Just my take on things. Machine polishing is indeed an art. One that I have been learning for over 38 years. Its always a new year. With the paints and the technology ever changing......there is always lots to keep up with. I want to point out......"OLD PAINT" almost never can be corrected one hundred percent. I think you know that. I still think Zaino for newbies is a good thing. Paint correction is best done by a skilled individual who knows how to power polish. I have said it before on this site. Folks here who know paint correction know their is friction involved.....best done by someone skilled. Be Well! Just trying to help. Paintxpert. I dont own an orbital.....perhaps someday I will.
 
Also, I might add that the outdoor natural light will show every imperfection that the finish has. Whether you work outside is up to you. In the end when you pull it in to the Sunshine.....you will see your results. Correcting paint with MINIMAL FILLERS is the key. Skilled correction specialists do it with their favorite pads and polishes: usually a couple to three different products. I LOVE my work......that is the line of work. I do try to love most of the work I perform. The fact is, cars that are 5 to ten years old can be corrected according TO THE LIFE THEY HAVE LED. I have a Dad who states when it rains his car gets washed. Hence rest my case. Be Well ! Paintxpert.
 
paintxpert said:
Also, I might add that the outdoor natural light will show every imperfection that the finish has..
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Well, it'll come close enough for most people. Some of us have found that, used just right in a controlled environment, the 3M SunGun shows flaws that are not visible under natural sunlight. Heh heh, Mike Phillips has teased me a little bit about the SunGun being kinda over-the-top in this regard, but hey....
 
There have been times with more direct lighting such as the Sun Gun, Brinkmann, and other LED's lights that have showed defects that were not visible when in sunlight.
 
Got_Leather said:
There have been times with more direct lighting such as the Sun Gun, Brinkmann, and other LED's lights that have showed defects that were not visible when in sunlight.
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Two lessons there IMO/IME:



1) different types of lighting can show different issues, so the more you use the more likely you'll spot everything and avoid surprises.



2) YMMV always applies. Seems like everyone except yours truly thinks the Brinkman (dual Xenon) light is good for inspection, but I simply don't see much of anything with mine :nixweiss Still a nice light, but pretty useless *for me* when it comes to spotting marring.



Oh, and since I brought up the subject :o I do want to point out that even though this is Autopia, I have mixed feelings about getting people to look for problems that they don't know they have. Oughta put that "problems" in scare-quotes, huh? How good is good enough :nixweiss If it looks good to the owner then that oughta be that.
 
Well, I bit the bullet and ordered the supplies I mentioned in the original post. I will be topping it off with Collinite 845, because it seems to have good durability and paint protection characteristics. (I need something that is pretty resistant to swirling/scratching, hopefully I will be able to use my CCF on pollen this spring.) If I screw up, it's off to Brad or DJ! :D



Wish me luck!
 
tdekany said:
If you get a flex, you can deswirl the car, but it will not look like what DJ or Brad can deliver. What kind of car is it?
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To answer your question, it is an '06 Jaguar XJ Vanden Plas.
 
amcdonal86- Ah, I'm a Jag owner too (and member of JCNA/etc.)...that's a nice car you have there.



Just remember to a) do a test spot and b) inspect your work meticulously in all kinds of lighting. The only thing that can go wrong in a big way is for you to get off on the wrong foot and not realize it until you've done the whole car, so make sure things are going OK on a limited area and *then* carry on.
 
Haha, thanks for the advice.



It looks great from the right angle and somewhat far away right now (under the right lighting conditions, too!).



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amcdonald86- Well, if you're gonna have a black driver it might as well be something with beautiful lines like that!



Those wheels look like they'd be a challenge (thinking about the barrels...).



BTW, my wife just saw the new XJ for the first time the other day and she was *really* going on about how awful she thinks it is compared to the "traditional" XJ look, which she and I have admired since forever.
 
Well it looks like my Flex arrived today. Unfortunately I had it delivered to the office and I didn't go into the office today, so I'll have to pick it up tomorrow. I made a separate order for two extra LC tangerine ultrafine polishing pads (3 total) and one extra cyan finishing pad (2 total). Hopefully that is enough.



Will the LC tangerine hydro pads work well with M105?
 
Sweet! I got the Flex and all my supplies today! Can't wait to get started. I hope an 8 ounce bottle of M105 is enough to do the whole car.
 
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