To start off, I'm certainly not a detailing expert. I have been using the regular P21S for years but I am currently out. I am considering getting the new P21S 100% or take the plunge and get some swissvax. Is there a noticeable difference between the two as far as appearance and durability? I plan on using 1Z glanz with a top coat of either P21S 100% or swissvax.
P21S 100% vs. Swissvax Blau Weiss(for BMW)
- Thread starter Hsmith
- Start date
steelwind101
New member
HOVY, your not quite right. On the face of it i see what your saying and once a guy wrote that it cant be right that a wax was specific to a paintwork (technicially)
He missed the point! Its not the paint as in the chemical that is what it is made for but actutally the predominant colours/style.
Can this be right? Can this be true? Well it was when Zymol were the rage back in the 1990s.
Let me try and explain; Different types of cars, generally have or have had specific colours which make alot of the cars sold. Now ok, in the USA white is popular more so then anywhere else.
Take the Ital for example, its from Zymol and its designed with Ferarris in mind. Its not so much the Ferarri paintwork, but the colours....what are the most popular colours for Ferarris i wonder....red, yellow....black....all colours which would benefit HEAVILY from a wax which has lots of oils. Take the way Souveran works as an example. Try CK Yellow Moose, this would give a similar effect.
Think Jap cars, in there general there modern iconic colours (atleast where i am) seem to be heavy flake, metalic or pearl. These cars would benefit from a "thin, wet style" look. This will give a thin, crisp layer of reflection with alot with different oils to the soild colour designed waxes. The oils in this product are more akin to say RMG, where you are getting an enhancement of metalic and pearl pop.
So then on say the BMW, the iconic and popular colours for BMW are black, that "inky" blue and here you will see the BMW/German car orientated waxes aimed at giving a bright, richness of colour on these solid colours. Not to mention, German cars tend to have a large of amount of flat panels in there design, which really allow for bright, rich colours to come through. This would be akin to alot of the German waxes P21s 100% as posted above, also Autoglym HD Wax (German cars are huge sellers in the UK).
Obviously you can order just about any car in any colour, how ever most often we see cars in there "iconic" colours or styles. These "dedicated" waxes, from Zymol at therefore i suspect heavily Swissvax are based around the idea which i posted above.
Certantly if you ever spoke with the Zymol guys back in the 1990's this was the idea. Now they have plenty of other waxes in there and Carbon and Creme are similar to Japon, the Volvo one etc.
Destiny was designed to give a wet look, but not so wet and so candy coated that it would detract from the show cars it was designed for and would still allow the cars shape and design to come through. Often over "candy coating" can reduce the sharpness of the designs and no longer compliment the ride.
Well anyways....! As far as i know from the people who made the waxes (and i have posted this before a number of sites including here, with little opposition) above is the idea behind the names. So if you gone for a colour true to the brand then you are likely to benefit from a wax dedicated to it.
Geoff
He missed the point! Its not the paint as in the chemical that is what it is made for but actutally the predominant colours/style.
Can this be right? Can this be true? Well it was when Zymol were the rage back in the 1990s.
Let me try and explain; Different types of cars, generally have or have had specific colours which make alot of the cars sold. Now ok, in the USA white is popular more so then anywhere else.
Take the Ital for example, its from Zymol and its designed with Ferarris in mind. Its not so much the Ferarri paintwork, but the colours....what are the most popular colours for Ferarris i wonder....red, yellow....black....all colours which would benefit HEAVILY from a wax which has lots of oils. Take the way Souveran works as an example. Try CK Yellow Moose, this would give a similar effect.
Think Jap cars, in there general there modern iconic colours (atleast where i am) seem to be heavy flake, metalic or pearl. These cars would benefit from a "thin, wet style" look. This will give a thin, crisp layer of reflection with alot with different oils to the soild colour designed waxes. The oils in this product are more akin to say RMG, where you are getting an enhancement of metalic and pearl pop.
So then on say the BMW, the iconic and popular colours for BMW are black, that "inky" blue and here you will see the BMW/German car orientated waxes aimed at giving a bright, richness of colour on these solid colours. Not to mention, German cars tend to have a large of amount of flat panels in there design, which really allow for bright, rich colours to come through. This would be akin to alot of the German waxes P21s 100% as posted above, also Autoglym HD Wax (German cars are huge sellers in the UK).
Obviously you can order just about any car in any colour, how ever most often we see cars in there "iconic" colours or styles. These "dedicated" waxes, from Zymol at therefore i suspect heavily Swissvax are based around the idea which i posted above.
Certantly if you ever spoke with the Zymol guys back in the 1990's this was the idea. Now they have plenty of other waxes in there and Carbon and Creme are similar to Japon, the Volvo one etc.
Destiny was designed to give a wet look, but not so wet and so candy coated that it would detract from the show cars it was designed for and would still allow the cars shape and design to come through. Often over "candy coating" can reduce the sharpness of the designs and no longer compliment the ride.
Well anyways....! As far as i know from the people who made the waxes (and i have posted this before a number of sites including here, with little opposition) above is the idea behind the names. So if you gone for a colour true to the brand then you are likely to benefit from a wax dedicated to it.
Geoff
steelwind101
New member
Legacy99, nice work that looks good!
ihave both p21s and p21s100 IMHO original p21s wetter glossier than p21s100% but p21s100% more durable than original p21.
p21s100% good on dark colour make car darker .
in my colection i have swissvax bos and zymol glasur ...BOS very nice wax great smell and bring very good result ...zymol glasur wetter than original p21swax and bring same level of gloss make car very bright .
swissvax BOS better than p21s100% by far ..
p21s100% good on dark colour make car darker .
in my colection i have swissvax bos and zymol glasur ...BOS very nice wax great smell and bring very good result ...zymol glasur wetter than original p21swax and bring same level of gloss make car very bright .
swissvax BOS better than p21s100% by far ..
Eisen Hulk
New member
For the money, you'll have a tough time beating the look of P21S 100%.
Mi dos pesos.
Mi dos pesos.
steelwind101 said:
Well Geoff, I wish to first of all, thank you for your reply. Rare are the people who take the time to actually post a complete answer like yours.
Your answer enlightened me on the confusion I had regarding waxes. Now that I think about all the things you said, it makes sense: the concentration of oils, etc for a specific type of paint more than specific type of make.
See, when I read that a wax is made for, let's say BMW, what comes to my mind is: BMW uses 9 layers of paint at their factory and a wax was developed accordingly to that process. The way I should have thought about it should have been: the wax is developed based on the nature of the paint: sparkles, color type, value of paint?, etc.
All this makes sense.
Now, I am still debating on whether I should use a wax or a synthetic sealant for my car or cars I will detail (friend's and family's). It's weird to say but synthetic sealant reminds of of robots, advanced technology, lack of passion while a wax is in my mind a natural based product, thus passion, warmth and connection. I know: it's weird. I am not sure how a sealant makes the car look but I know they're durable.
The other aspect of the sealant/wax debate is the durability. I constantly see reviews on waxes where at the final step of the detailing process, the detailer pours water on the car to show the great beading ability. Yes, but how long does that last? A day? A week? I am looking for something that will last at least a good month to 2 months.
You mentioned the various types of waxes available. I also wish to use only one or two waxes: 1 for light colors and 1 for dark colors. I don't intend to have a collection of waxes. Let's make life easier, not more complicated.
Finally, what do you suggest for a Ice Metallic Audi R8?
Once again, many thanks!
I'm no expert, but on top of color, I think different waxes work better on different types of paint of the same color on different cars.
Jet black is not the same for different makes of cars, clearcote can be thinner or thicker, etc.
You might find one type of wax works better on a Nissan jet black as opposed to a BMW jet black.
The tough part is find the best sealant/wax for your make and color of car - and that's how the makers of these products make a lot of money off us as we try and find it!
Jet black is not the same for different makes of cars, clearcote can be thinner or thicker, etc.
You might find one type of wax works better on a Nissan jet black as opposed to a BMW jet black.
The tough part is find the best sealant/wax for your make and color of car - and that's how the makers of these products make a lot of money off us as we try and find it!
tmg19103 said:
So we should trust what the maker of the wax thinks looks good? Do they think the sealant or carnauba look is better? Is depth, slickness, or durability most important? Its basically just their opinion of what they think looks good, so I still don't see how it can be vehicle specific. I may think a "Volvo" wax looks better on a BMW but that's just how I see it, so I wouldn't go by what someone else thinks looks right.
imported_Ivan Rajic
New member
omfg another wax thread... it's *all* in the prep... go with P21S to save some cash and you'll be fine and your paint will look great.
lecchilo said:
Looking at the pro details before and after threads it shows that to be so true. So many of those cars look amazing before the LSP step.
I've posted this before but I wasn't impressed with Souvern at all, until I went over the car with M105 then M205. Prior to that the Souvern looked kinda flat on the car. I also had to wax more often, no matter what LSP i was using, because the LSP was covering up the defects so they'd show back up long before it had worn off.
steelwind101
New member
lecchilo said:
Regardless how well you prep a car, the end result can still be "altered" by the wax you use.
The difference on a metalic of say Japon VS Souveran is clear, Souveran does not allow metalics to pop so well. Apply RMG to a swirl free finish and you can enhance the "pop".
Apply a Mothers cleaner wax and you can "dull" down the paint tones.
I think part of the branding products around a certain name is a selling a point! Look on the Mini forums and how many people bought the Zymol "Mini" glaze. There is a logic behind it as well as marketing thing!
Hovy, glad i could help! I typed that before a meeting this morning a netbook but i thought it was worth sharing what i had heard quite a fews years ago from the Swissvax rivals.
IMO, on metalics i really like Supernatural from DoDo juice, it would work well on either of your cars, dark or light. P21s 100% is another good looking wax and more "unique", its not as deep as some products so i would choose somethign else for dark cars. I dont have much knowledge of the Swissvax range though Maxi is tempting me some good info in a private message :up.
If you want a wax as oppossed to a sealant i would say get Supernatural or P21s 100% for silver (maybe a bottle RMG if you dont have it, its an Autopia favorite!).
For the dark car Victoria Wax Concours. In the winter you could get Wolfgang Sealant 3.0 which would look great on either and again, you get the extra pop by using RMG before Wolfgang with no adverse effect.
Supernatural and Vic wax c+Concours can be purchased in small amounts, so you can try or not commit yourself to a huge investment. Esp. as new things come out and holding old wax isnt to every ones tastes....ask my wife!
Obviously thats all IMO.
Geoff
imported_Ivan Rajic
New member
Steel I agree there are slight differences in a few waxes/paints, but my point is this is only 'proven' by the person 'analyzing' the differences... if some controlled testing was performed, I would believe the results, and if every experienced waxer out there (I'm in no way one of those) would look at a bunch of different cars that have the same exact paint in same exact lighting and condition but with different LSPs applied and then rate the LSPs, having their ratings match their initial theories, I would tend to believe the higher end waxes are worth it... however all the tests that have so far been performed have shown results all over the place, leaving me to my trusty KSG and P21S for any paint.
Again, I'm not experienced in telling waxes apart, but I've used enough of them over the past 4-5 years on quite a few cars and could rarely tell the difference between most... yes KSG gives the car a coated look most of the time but is that bad or good?... I guess my point is that this debate can go on forever until someone proves it scientifically with believable results.
Again, I'm not experienced in telling waxes apart, but I've used enough of them over the past 4-5 years on quite a few cars and could rarely tell the difference between most... yes KSG gives the car a coated look most of the time but is that bad or good?... I guess my point is that this debate can go on forever until someone proves it scientifically with believable results.
I've got to go with Ivan on this (at least provisionally). Perhaps I should have been born in Missouri, the "Show me" state.
I am dubious about claims that specific waxes look significantly better on specific color paints than others. I do not question what others believe they have "seen"; but I have not yet seen it. Perhaps I have not yet acquired the necessary skills and discernment, which is more than probable; perhaps I lack the necessary experience, which is most certainly the case; on the other hand, it also remains possible that others are persuading themselves to see what does not in fact exist. I would love to see some objective testing that would confirm or disconfirm the claim that waxes can be tailored to enhance specific colored cars.
I keep coming back to Dave McLean's wax test, which supports the view that prep really is 99% of finish. Now I know that this test was restricted to black cars and therefore does not strictly apply to the question of color-specific waxes; but it does challenge our deep-seated belief that we can dramatically improve the look of our cars by putting more expensive waxes on them.
I continue to cling to the hope that waxes/sealants really do make a difference, but I remain skeptical that specific colors actually look better with specific waxes. Show me!
Cheers,
Al
I am dubious about claims that specific waxes look significantly better on specific color paints than others. I do not question what others believe they have "seen"; but I have not yet seen it. Perhaps I have not yet acquired the necessary skills and discernment, which is more than probable; perhaps I lack the necessary experience, which is most certainly the case; on the other hand, it also remains possible that others are persuading themselves to see what does not in fact exist. I would love to see some objective testing that would confirm or disconfirm the claim that waxes can be tailored to enhance specific colored cars.
I keep coming back to Dave McLean's wax test, which supports the view that prep really is 99% of finish. Now I know that this test was restricted to black cars and therefore does not strictly apply to the question of color-specific waxes; but it does challenge our deep-seated belief that we can dramatically improve the look of our cars by putting more expensive waxes on them.
I continue to cling to the hope that waxes/sealants really do make a difference, but I remain skeptical that specific colors actually look better with specific waxes. Show me!
Cheers,
Al
steelwind101
New member
All the cars in David tests were black, i can understand people not seeing a difference.
Take a metalic silver car, polish it, apply RMG and WG Sealant to once side of the hood, Mothers Cleaner Wax to other, you will see a difference!
You guys dont understand, that oil content can supress metalic pop? A wax with a heavy oil content, say oils that darken the paintwork will mute metalic pop.
I can understand if you saw a soild a colour and you cant see any difference, of course from a photo its even harder.
But not see how how Souveran (as an example) mutes metalic pop over say less heavy oil product like P21s 100% i cant get :hm
This is what happens when your not raised on the three step system :furious:!
All meant in just of course.
Take a metalic silver car, polish it, apply RMG and WG Sealant to once side of the hood, Mothers Cleaner Wax to other, you will see a difference!
You guys dont understand, that oil content can supress metalic pop? A wax with a heavy oil content, say oils that darken the paintwork will mute metalic pop.
I can understand if you saw a soild a colour and you cant see any difference, of course from a photo its even harder.
But not see how how Souveran (as an example) mutes metalic pop over say less heavy oil product like P21s 100% i cant get :hm
This is what happens when your not raised on the three step system :furious:!
All meant in just of course.