orange peel, hopeless?

L

LT4

New member
My wife bought new Toyota. Every time I look at it I want break out the Flex and compound the [expletive deleted] out of it. The paint would be beautiful if not for the orange peel. Rational me says I can`t fix it. OCD me wants to attack. Thoughts? Any "been there"?
 
CarPro at one time had a specific pad for orange peel removal. Years ago people here would wetsand and polish to knock down orange peel, but the paint is so thin today I don`t know that anyone would recommend that.

This is dredging up some distant memories of a discussion on here at to whether the orange peel was on purpose by some mfrs when they went to double-side galvanized lower panels that would look different than the upper panels which were not galvanized, so they adjusted the (robotic) painting process so there would be orange peel on the whole car so it would look uniform. I believe it was David Fermani that talked about this due to his experience as an auto body insurance adjuster, and that the shops would have to match the factory orange peel or the repainted sections wouldn`t look like the rest of the car.
 
Thanks. Looks "on purpose." Didn`t think of that as a possibility. Figured just quick and shoddy. An oddity is that the flat surface of the hood isn`t orange peeled at all - it was just surface scratched from the dealer`s flunky wiping off the dew.
 
Yup, Dave F. brought that to my attention about orange peel being done on purpose to "hide" defects in formed or pressed sheet metal panels.
This is due to the same forming sheet metal dies being used year-after-year, as body styles are the same for three or four model years. Not a bad idea to save on manufacturing cost, but bad for the end-consumer who s sees these cosmetic "defects" in the body work and paint jobs to mitigate those visual defects.
Honestly, unless you have a Paint Thickness Gage or PTG, you are asking for trouble. Wet sanding WILL smooth out the paint/clear coat orange peel, but you will definitely also reduce the life expectancy of your paint. Depends on your level of visual perfection in a vehicle`s exterior. Can you make it showcar perfect?
Maybe, BUT that may only be for a short time.
Once your paint starts to degrade, nothing short of a respray will restore it.
I`m with you however and would correct and polish the livin` daylights out of that paint until it met my visual level of acceptance. But without a PTG it is a gamble, so the risk-reward may leave you sorry you tried to perfect the paint.
The new Corvette plant is abysmal. Go to Chevy dealer and look for yourself. Your paint probably looks a lot better than what you see on the showroom for new high -dollar sports car.
 
CarPro still sells orange peel pads. They say they are for a rotary, and sounds like they are close to sanding. I won`t be doing that with Honey`s new ride. I still wanna live here. Dreadfully disappointing to pay today`s car prices and get something with a chitty looking, Earl Scheib paint job. We have two other cars and a pickup. None has as crummy looking paint job as the newest one. Am going to try to control myself with polishers, but I`m sure I won`t leave it alone.
 
LT4 said:
CarPro still sells orange peel pads. They say they are for a rotary, and sounds like they are close to sanding. I won`t be doing that with Honey`s new ride. I still wanna live here. Dreadfully disappointing to pay today`s car prices and get something with a chitty looking, Earl Scheib paint job. We have two other cars and a pickup. None has as crummy looking paint job as the newest one. Am going to try to control myself with polishers, but I`m sure I won`t leave it alone.
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Congrats on the new car !
Sorry about the paint job in places..

And Yes, I would recommend getting a good, reliable paint thickness gauge, and learn how to use it...
The most expensive PTG will be able to tell you, hopefully, the difference in the number of layers of product on the panel..
All the rest of the PTG`s just tell you the -Total Thickness- number in Microns or Mils..

I only use mine in the Microns measurement, because I want to see quickly, how many Microns are now missing..
I of course, want to take off as Few Microns as possible...

If I were going to do this, as a former Painter, I would only do it with a rubber block and cut the paper to fit the block tightly.

I would first spray a guide coat over the panel that is a contrasting color, just light enough to show up -lightly- across the entire panel.
Then use the block and sand paper -with- a small dribble off water from a hose that has the metal end cut off of it...

Wet the panel area, see the guide coat??? If not, get good lights or do it outside..
.
Block sand the guide coat, with running water, and as that guide coat goes away, hopefully, you knocked down the orange peel enough to where you will like it..

Of course, this means after all this work and drying it, you will definitely need to lightly compound the finish to bring all the gloss back up.

Rotary power is the only way to do this -for me- quickly and accurately... Remember, the entire panel has to - Match- in gloss, all the way to the end..
This is how I have done it in our shop, when I was painting...
Good luck !
Dan F
 
Play around with some old school polishes/waxes. Some did a really nice job masking orange peel with that trademark carnauba glow.
 
LT4 said:
My wife bought new Toyota. Every time I look at it I want break out the Flex and compound the [expletive deleted] out of it. The paint would be beautiful if not for the orange peel. Rational me says I can`t fix it. OCD me wants to attack. Thoughts? Any "been there"?
Click to expand...

Welcome to Autopia!

I`m in the "just live with it" camp. When I got my (then new) Audi S8, its orangepeel really disappointed me...their "new robotic paint system" results were simply awful compared to how their cars used to come out. Eh...20-some years later it still looks the same, but it doesn`t bother me and my less-expensive cars look even worse. Trying to fix it, would mean risking clearcoat failure, and that would bug me a lot more.

As noted, some of today`s factory finishes are *VERY* thin, and that little bit of clearcoat has to protect the basecoat for the life of the car...once you lose the top [whatever-%], the clear can`t do its job, so even "routine correction" as to be given careful consideration. I strongly recommend learning to live with it.

Dan`s suggestion to use older-tech LSPs (Last Step Products..i.e., wax or sealant), instead of the newer "ultra-glossy" products sounds good to me, but then I seldom like how those newer ones look anyhow.."all gloss and reflection, no depth or jetting"..although that`s Autopian hair-splitting to most people :o
 
Yeah, I insist on good depth so that’s why I’m still using old school LSPs at least for the time being.
 
First, thanks to you who have taken the time to help this hog off the ice. I should have said at the outset that the vehicle is a RAV4 hybrid. Paint is a ruby red color with subtle flake. One of their upcharge colors. My experience level is middling. 65 years of hobbyist detailing.

I`m sorely tempted to do at least machine polishing of the sides of the vehicle - the worst of the orange peel - following with Meguiar`s old show car glaze and top with either Blackfire`s Midnight Sun or Pinnacle Souveran.

Anyone recommend PTG? I see them from $25 to $250, and don`t know enough to choose. Ideally I would like one that also works on painted plastics like bumper covers and Corvettes.
 
LT4 said:
I`m sorely tempted to do at least machine polishing of the sides of the vehicle - the worst of the orange peel - following with Meguiar`s old show car glaze and top with either Blackfire`s Midnight Sun or Pinnacle Souveran.
Click to expand...

Just don`t expect the polishing to do anything for the orangepeel except make it shinier.
 
Thank you. I think I get that. I`m largely heeding your advice to learn to live with it. Shinier is better by my taste.
 
LT4- OK, just didn`t want you to be disappointed. I bet a little polishing and waxing will have it looking so good that the paint`s texture won`t bother you all that much.
 
I`m in the "live with it" camp. You`ll see orange peel on cars in every price range. Just like the color differences between bumper covers and the body panels.
 
Just to sort of wrap up my dithering, here`s what I did:
I re-evaluated my priorities for this car. Wife`s car, and she leaves it outside almost all the time (unlike the ones I drive, which are always garaged). So paint protection leapfrogged smooth, shiny, show car look. Gave up any notion of correcting orange peel. Washed, clayed. Machine polished hood, tops of front fenders, rear quarters (Menzerna SF applied with PC/DA). Panel wiped whole vehicle. Applied spray coating (Mothers, which I had on hand). 24 hours later topped with Meguiar`s Ultimate Wax, which contains no wax. Applied Sonus Motor Kote to all the gray/black plastic. Have subsequently topped up shine with Glanz, which works nicely with the Meg`s. Dreadful orange peel is unchanged, but car is a great looking 10 foot car. I really appreciate everyone`s advice and needed the warnings about how thin clearcoat has become. I still may apply carnauba over everything else, but enough for now.
 
KT4- I`m glad your happy with the results, even if you couldn`t quite resist a final "Dreadful" regarding that orangepeel :D I bet it looks great, and now that it`s well-protected it oughta be easy to keep it that way. Hope your wife enjoys the car!
 
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