Optimum vs Menz

M

Mobilejay

Active member
First off I don't want this to become a Menz rocks Optimum sucks or vis versa, just need some knowledge.

Okay I am going to try to explain what I am trying to ask as best as possible, bear with me.

I have been using OP and OC for a good while now and love them. They are great products. I am wondering about checking out Menz products. Menz products don't have that long of working time but have good bite, Optimums products have a long working time....do they have the same bite as Menz products (less, more, same)? I am wanting to get the same bite if not a little better but with a shorter working time. If Menz have the same bite as OP/OC just with shorter working times that would be great. I have used BF's polish which some have said is the same as 106, does 106 compare to OP cause I don't think it has the same bite that OP has. Maybe it does have the same amount but since the polish breaks down sooner than OP it might not be working like it would look after 160(exageration) passes with OP. Plus that polish I used from BF that I have read is the same as 106 dusts like freaking crazy!

Do I just stay with OP or is it worth it to move to Menz?(basically what my point is)lol

Okay so if anyone has got a clue as to what I just said and can explain, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you very much.
 
To me, OP seems like it has a bit more bite to it than PO106FF, but not as much as IP. PO106FF finishes off better than OP, and of course 106 works better on hard clears. It also has a very long working time like OP. PO85RD is much finer than OP. It has about zero correcting power. It's nothing but a gloss enhancing polish that's effective on hard clears.. Same with FPII, only it's the finest of the Menz line, and is almost worthless on hard clears unless you don't mind spending *alot* of time with it. FPII doesn't have as long of a working time as PO85 and 106 do. Lot's of people say that they get alot of dust from 85rd and 106. I get some, but not too much. Maybe I'm just used to it, or I don't care cause the polishes are so good. Or both. :D



IP and SIP have shorter working times than OC, but they don't have nearly the bite as OC. They also finish off much better than OC does. IP and SIP aren't *too* bad when it comes to dust. Some, but not alot.



Menz Power Gloss is similar in cut to OC. PG finishes off *much* better than OC, though. PG is a *huge* duster.
 
SuperBee364 said:
To me, OP seems like it has a bit more bite to it than PO106FF, but not as much as IP. PO106FF finishes off better than OP, and of course 106 works better on hard clears. It also has a very long working time like OP. PO85RD is much finer than OP. It has about zero correcting power. It's nothing but a gloss enhancing polish that's effective on hard clears.. Same with FPII, only it's the finest of the Menz line, and is almost worthless on hard clears unless you don't mind spending *alot* of time with it. FPII doesn't have as long of a working time as PO85 and 106 do. Lot's of people say that they get alot of dust from 85rd and 106. I get some, but not too much. Maybe I'm just used to it, or I don't care cause the polishes are so good. Or both. :D



IP and SIP have shorter working times than OC, but they don't have nearly the bite as OC. They also finish off much better than OC does. IP and SIP aren't *too* bad when it comes to dust. Some, but not alot.



Menz Power Gloss is similar in cut to OC. PG finishes off *much* better than OC, though. PG is a *huge* duster.
Click to expand...



I agree with everything here except 85rd as I've never used it...
 
SuperBee364 said:
To me, OP seems like it has a bit more bite to it than PO106FF, but not as much as IP. PO106FF finishes off better than OP, and of course 106 works better on hard clears. It also has a very long working time like OP. PO85RD is much finer than OP. It has about zero correcting power. It's nothing but a gloss enhancing polish that's effective on hard clears.. Same with FPII, only it's the finest of the Menz line, and is almost worthless on hard clears unless you don't mind spending *alot* of time with it. FPII doesn't have as long of a working time as PO85 and 106 do. Lot's of people say that they get alot of dust from 85rd and 106. I get some, but not too much. Maybe I'm just used to it, or I don't care cause the polishes are so good. Or both. :D



IP and SIP have shorter working times than OC, but they don't have nearly the bite as OC. They also finish off much better than OC does. IP and SIP aren't *too* bad when it comes to dust. Some, but not alot.



Menz Power Gloss is similar in cut to OC. PG finishes off *much* better than OC, though. PG is a *huge* duster.
Click to expand...





First off, thank you for that.

So in terms of cutting between IP SIP & OC I should stay with OC. If the two Menz don't have the same cut nor the working time I would have to work it twice just to get the cut I would get from 1 time with the longer working OC.

I don't think I am going to be switching over. I think I should just get a rotary, suck it up and learn to use it. Thats the only way I think my jobs will go quicker, even then some are going to take just as long but some wont. Thanks again for the explanation.
 
I only have SIP, 106ff, and FP. I got the FP from another member and I havent used it yet. I also have OP. SIP does more cutting faster than OP. SIP has a pretty good working time, but nowhere near as long as OP. I like OP and it's great to mix in with something that has flashes quickly so you can get some more working time, but the last few details I've done have been polished with the SIP and 106.



FWIW,



People have been reporting issues with Menzerna being picky about weather conditions, and I've never had that problem with OP (or Menzerna either, but I've used OP alot more).
 
Way2SSlow said:
I only have SIP, 106ff, and FP. I got the FP from another member and I havent used it yet. I also have OP. SIP does more cutting faster than OP. SIP has a pretty good working time, but nowhere near as long as OP. I like OP and it's great to mix in with something that has flashes quickly so you can get some more working time, but the last few details I've done have been polished with the SIP and 106.



FWIW,



People have been reporting issues with Menzerna being picky about weather conditions, and I've never had that problem with OP (or Menzerna either, but I've used OP alot more).
Click to expand...



Yeah, exactly...This is hard to explain, so forgive me if it doesn't make sense... you (the original poster) mentioned that you would be time ahead to stay with products with longer working times, because you would get more correcting done with the long working time products than short working time products. Well, that isn't exactly always the case...



Let's say you have a car with medium defects. Defects that are right up SIP's alley. You start on half the car using Optimum Compound (the longer working time product), and I do the other half using SIP (the shorter working time product). Guess what? I win! The reason is that in order for you to work the OC all the way down to it's best finish took you about twice as long per application as it did to work my SIP all the way down. So it's not necessarily about what product has the longest working time, it's what product is most efficient for the job at hand.



Another good example... Let's say that we have a car with heavier defects. Defects that are perfect for a compound like Optimum Compound, but too heavy for SIP. So I go to work on half the car using Meguair's M105, and you use OC. Again, I win. M105's working time per application is only about 15 seconds. But in that 15 seconds, I do much more correcting than you do in each 1.5 minute application of OC. Again, the most efficient product for the job at hand.



As a general rule, the products that are the most agressive in their respective categories are going to be the most efficient for use with a DA polisher. Especially if they have shorter working times.



The most efficient polishes for DA's, IMO, are:



Finishing polish: PO85RD

heavy finishing polish: 1Z High Gloss

Medium Correction polish: Menz SIP, or possibly 1Z intensive paste

Heavy Compound: M105, with M95 being a close second.



Choosing the job-appropriate polish from the above list will usually give you the best results (most efficient results) over a given period of time.



If you move to a rotary, you are gaining efficiency right there; a rotary is capable of performing more work per given time period than a DA. Then choosing the most efficient pad/polish combination will save you even more time, especially since you can then make use of all types of wool pads, which are *very* time efficient.
 
Super Bee you are the man. Thank you sir. I don't know why I didn't see it that way. Thanks a lot for the help and the information man I appreciate it.
 
Not to hijack, maybe this is relevant to you all also, and I've been wondering. I only have OHC from the Optimum line. I plan to get some OP just because it is very cheap and seems versatile.



What I wonder is, with OHC (and what I've heard about OP), pad seems very important. OHC, when I've used, seems to finish down really pretty well by PC on a light polishing pad. How much difference in cut is there between OHC, OC, and OP. Does OC even have a place? It SOUNDS like you could do most work with just OHC and OP, considering their cut varies alot with the bite of the particular pad.



Thoughts?



Oh, also. Have you two tried the old HTEC/OP mix? Seems like it used to be popular a couple years back. How does the cut of that combo compare to OHC or a real heavy compound like, say.. M95?
 
I have never been able to get OHC to finish down well for me regardless of what pad I use with it, although I've never used it with a PC. I'm not knocking the product at all, rather my skill level. I'm just not good enough to get it to work as intended.



HTEC/OP was one of my favorite heavy compound combos. That and MPG. M105 and M95 have made them both obsolete, really. 105 and 95 both have much more cut and finish down much nicer in less time. And 95 is *so* easy to use. Every bit as easy to use as OC.
 
I guess M95 and M105 just SOUND intimidating to me from alot of the talk I've heard. Lots of posts would scare me away from using unless I had absolutely NO alternative... then I see guys like RickRack hitting cars with 4 passes of 105 and I start to rethink my fear of the product. Personally, if I ever use one, I'll go with 95 first.. as I'm just starting to use a rotary in addition to PC and I'd prefer the user-friendliness of 95 over the speed of 105 when the results are similar.
 
SuperBee364 said:
The most efficient polishes for DA's, IMO, are:



Finishing polish: PO85RD

heavy finishing polish: 1Z High Gloss

Medium Correction polish: Menz SIP, or possibly 1Z intensive paste

Heavy Compound: M105, with M95 being a close second.
Click to expand...



Why don't you recommend 106ff?
 
Keep in mind that Optimums polishes have a reaaally long working time, which some people prefer as it allows you to use your pad to do more correcting as opposed to relying heavily on the product.



Personally, that long working time when using a PC can be too long. I will say that i dont have the experience or knowlege of the product to know what the effects of removing it thru its different stages of finishing are. I.E. does OP remain its workability after the polish is broken down to allow further collection via the pad.



For those with experience with both brands. Can I go from SIP on an orange LLC pad with a PC to Optimum Poliseal on a whiteband? or is 106 still a necessary step? I'm sure this is really paint dependent but I'm talking about in general.
 
Bunky said:
Why don't you recommend 106ff?
Click to expand...



Because 1Z High Gloss is more time efficient. Alot of the time there's a difference between the "best" and the "more time efficient". If you have the time, 106. If you don't 1Z. On a rotary, if you have the time, 106. If you don't, UF.



thesacrifice said:
Keep in mind that Optimums polishes have a reaaally long working time, which some people prefer as it allows you to use your pad to do more correcting as opposed to relying heavily on the product.



Personally, that long working time when using a PC can be too long. I will say that i dont have the experience or knowlege of the product to know what the effects of removing it thru its different stages of finishing are. I.E. does OP remain its workability after the polish is broken down to allow further collection via the pad.



For those with experience with both brands. Can I go from SIP on an orange LLC pad with a PC to Optimum Poliseal on a whiteband? or is 106 still a necessary step? I'm sure this is really paint dependent but I'm talking about in general.
Click to expand...



You *could* go from SIP/orange to OPS/white, but you'll be missing out on a whole level of shine by skipping the 106.
 
I just can't think of HT EC (let alone when mixed with OP) as a "heavy compound". It just doesn't seem all that aggressive to me. I *like* it OK, but for serious correction it'll at least need to be teamed with wool pads. It's not nearly as aggressive as 1Z Pasta Intensiv, and that stuff isn't in the realm of products like M105. Despite its name, the HT EC seems more like a strong medium to me.



Bunky- Another issue regarding 106FF is the "reappearing holograms" one where 106FF does a very strange concealing action even after IPA wipes/etc. I've never used 106FF, but I've seen the aforementioned issue first-hand after it was used by a *VERY* good pro (who's a member here). They took *months* to reappear, and I just wouldn't want that hanging over my head. Now that the 1Z HG is available, the choice seems pretty simple to as the closer to foolproof a product is, the better IMO.



drew.haynes said:
I guess M95 and M105 just SOUND intimidating to me from alot of the talk I've heard..
Click to expand...



Then I'd suggest the 1Z Pasta Intensiv. Aggressive enough that you need to be a little careful but not so much so that you need to have any real *concerns* about using it.



Sheesh, I'm a walking advert for 1Z stuff :o
 
Accumulator said:
I just can't think of HT EC (let alone when mixed with OP) as a "heavy compound". It just doesn't seem all that aggressive to me. I *like* it OK, but for serious correction it'll at least need to be teamed with wool pads. It's not nearly as aggressive as 1Z Pasta Intensiv, and that stuff isn't in the realm of products like M105. Despite its name, the HT EC seems more like a strong medium to me.



Bunky- Another issue regarding 106FF is the "reappearing holograms" one where 106FF does a very strange concealing action even after IPA wipes/etc. I've never used 106FF, but I've seen the aforementioned issue first-hand after it was used by a *VERY* good pro (who's a member here). They took *months* to reappear, and I just wouldn't want that hanging over my head. Now that the 1Z HG is available, the choice seems pretty simple to as the closer to foolproof a product is, the better IMO.







Then I'd suggest the 1Z Pasta Intensiv. Aggressive enough that you need to be a little careful but not so much so that you need to have any real *concerns* about using it.



Sheesh, I'm a walking advert for 1Z stuff :o
Click to expand...



HTEC is one of those polishes that is very pad-sensitive. Used with Edge 2k black wool, you can get some pretty darn good correction out of it. It's still not in the same league as 105 or 95 by any means, but not bad. Same with MPG, really. Throw a black wool together with MGP for some good correction, but again, not in the same league as Megs new heavy weights.



I really need to get some of that Intensive Paste... Would you say it has more bite than SIP? I'm down to my last liter of SIP, and am looking for a more reasonbaly priced replacement.
 
As far as the compound discussion goes,



I never really liked HTEC/OP, it always gummed for me and it worked better with foam than with wool in my experience.



The only compounds that I have ever *enjoyed* using were Presta UCCL and M105. I hated using PowerGloss, HTEC, OHC, OC, etc.



For most jobs, I am current using M105/twisted wool for really rough paint, then M105/white LC foam, and UF/blue LC foam. It cut my polishing time in half, plus I like the way those polishes work. They all cut very quickly and are reliable enough to use in poor lighting with reliable hologram-free results. M105/white cuts very similarly to SIP/orange, in 1/4 of the time.



For jobs where the client is willing to pay an extra 60% for that extra 5%, I still use M105/wool, SIP/Orange, Ultrafina/white, 85RD. It does seem to shimmer a little more. Takes an extra 4-5 hours though.
 
SuperBee364 said:
..I really need to get some of that Intensive Paste... Would you say it has more bite than SIP?
Click to expand...



Can't say, never used the Menzerna. But I'd guess it is more aggressive...used by hand the Pasta Intensiv can make for serious scratches if you botch up the technique and I somehow don't imagine the SIP doing that.



And thanks for the info on the HT EC/wool...I'll have to try that sometime as I have plenty of EC sitting around (along with a yellow Edge wool pad :D ).
 
Accumulator said:
Another issue regarding 106FF is the "reappearing holograms" one where 106FF does a very strange concealing action even after IPA wipes/etc.
Click to expand...



I have seen posts mentioning this. Would that be true with a DA or just an effect with a rotary?
 
Bunky- Yeah, hard to tell what *caused* the holograms but the 106FF *hid* them.



Note that you won't get true holograms except with a rotary but you could get the hiding with any application method.



In my case, some of the holograms appeared to be from aggressive work and some were so light that I figure they came from the last rotary step, which was 106FF/white. (It was then PCed with more 106FF.) I bet that the rotary work with the 106FF hid the nasty ones, and the PC work with the 106FF hid the rest.



It was absolutely hologram-free (appearing) for a long, long time...and the holograms came back even though the LSP (476S) was still in perfectly good shape, which sorta surprised me; I'd always figured that the LSP would have to start to go before any "filling" would become apparent, but it wasn't so.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top