Hello Autopians, after spending many hours on this board you begin to pick up alot, and I mean alot of products. Well it occured to me what if I go back to the basics(sort of). The basic rule of any good/great shine is polish-glaze-wax right? Yes I'm leaving out the intangibles like claybar etc., we'll leave these out for this particular thread. So what if I took the best products out of those particular categories(again debateable we'll save that for another thread also) and put them together in that order. I'm thinking Polish-Z2/Z5, Glaze-KSG, and Wax-Souveran paste. If I did all of the necessary prepwork in that order, I'm thinking there should'nt be any bonding issues right? I'm kinda curious how KSG will react going on without AIO under it though? The car's paint is in really new condition though. So any thoughts? Anybody already done this? Let me hear it all... Thanks- PS I realize that alot of members on this board use P21S instead of souveran, so feel free to substitute that particular one for the wax part. :bounce
Okay, who has done this combo???
- Thread starter grt1today
- Start date
Accumulator
Well-known member
I wonder if the KSG would bond to the Zaino. Yep, a bonding issue. Though I seem to recall that someone said it works.
The REAL, *BIG* issue here, as I see it: there are the different interpretations of what "polish" and "glaze" (and even "wax") mean.
Zaino and Meguiar's call some of their products "polishes" that *I* would call something else, if only for consistency of reference. E.g., I'd call the Z2/Z5 products "sealants".
Similarly, K SG is NOT something that *I* would call a "glaze" (to me it's also a "sealant"), any more than I'd call my old fave 3m PI-III MG a "glaze" (to me it's a "polish"). Note that Pinnacle even calls some of its waxes "glazes".
The different manufacturers use terminology in different ways, thus these terms CANNOT be used for direct comparisons or references. The only way for me to keep things straight in MY mind is to apply the various terms in (consistent) ways that allow ME to keep the products in their "proper" categories.
The REAL, *BIG* issue here, as I see it: there are the different interpretations of what "polish" and "glaze" (and even "wax") mean.
Zaino and Meguiar's call some of their products "polishes" that *I* would call something else, if only for consistency of reference. E.g., I'd call the Z2/Z5 products "sealants".
Similarly, K SG is NOT something that *I* would call a "glaze" (to me it's also a "sealant"), any more than I'd call my old fave 3m PI-III MG a "glaze" (to me it's a "polish"). Note that Pinnacle even calls some of its waxes "glazes".
The different manufacturers use terminology in different ways, thus these terms CANNOT be used for direct comparisons or references. The only way for me to keep things straight in MY mind is to apply the various terms in (consistent) ways that allow ME to keep the products in their "proper" categories.
Those are all good points. Zaino is definetely not a polish in the cleaner sense, so I would definetely have to do all SMR etc. before hand. I was thinking the KSG might bond to the zaino because the zaino doesn't have any wax or oils in it(not completely sure on the oils part). Thanks for the advice Accumulator. Everyone else please chime in!!!
imported_BretFraz
New member
Where's the advantage of topping Zaino with Klasse? Zaino is slicker, beads water better, very likely more durable, and more reflective. I see no advantage of doing this.
Plus Z2 and Z5 are really final step products. You have to do all your polishing (real polishing, not polishing as defined by a product label) before using Z2 or 5.
Then topping that with a carnauba? Oy....
You are using three (count em!!) final step products, one on top of another. I know plenty of people here do that kind of thing but it doesn't mean their process makes sense or is even a good idea. I say scrap that process completely.
You mentioned the basic rules of a good shine. Basic rules, indeed!!! Stick with them. Apply them everytime you detail. Live your life by them and they will never ever lead you astray.
WASH
CLAY
POLISH
PROTECT
MAINTAIN
That's it. That's all there is to car detailing. You want The Secrets Of A Show Car Finish? Well, there they are.
Don't make the classic mistake of focusing on products. Techniques and processes are 80-90% of successful detailing. Most products out there are totally interchangeable. There are very few truly unique products in the car care industry (Zaino is one of them).
Any questions???
Plus Z2 and Z5 are really final step products. You have to do all your polishing (real polishing, not polishing as defined by a product label) before using Z2 or 5.
Then topping that with a carnauba? Oy....
You are using three (count em!!) final step products, one on top of another. I know plenty of people here do that kind of thing but it doesn't mean their process makes sense or is even a good idea. I say scrap that process completely.
You mentioned the basic rules of a good shine. Basic rules, indeed!!! Stick with them. Apply them everytime you detail. Live your life by them and they will never ever lead you astray.
WASH
CLAY
POLISH
PROTECT
MAINTAIN
That's it. That's all there is to car detailing. You want The Secrets Of A Show Car Finish? Well, there they are.
Don't make the classic mistake of focusing on products. Techniques and processes are 80-90% of successful detailing. Most products out there are totally interchangeable. There are very few truly unique products in the car care industry (Zaino is one of them).
Any questions???
Bretfraz, I can tell you are very passionate about your zaino. That's good, it's a good product. Just because I'm putting something over it doesn't mean it's not a good product. If you reread my posts, I specifically left out the intangibles on purpose because I didn't want the purpose of the thread to get lost. We all know that zaino isn't a polish in the traditional sense as it has NO cleaning properties in it. But it's still labeled as a polish, so I put it on there. To be honest I could probably just wash, clay and use #26 to get the same results, I just wanna be able to say that I've tried them all(All the best products, that's what this is really about) and wanted to see if anybody on here had done the same. But I did say all thoughts and opinions, so I appreciate yours...
imported_BretFraz
New member
grt1today said:
You're missing the point. Its not about Zaino. Or about any other brand. Or my "passion" for a certain brand.
I understand the purpose of this thread but if you want constructive input and honest opinions, maybe a rethink of your purpose is in order.
Polishing, surface prep, defect removal, et al are not "intangibles". They are the core of proper car care. The true intangibles are whatever product you use as the final beauty step. Its the majority of those products which are interchangable.
I think its a good idea to try all the "best products" (whatever that means). But at least develop and implement a process in which you can accurately and objectively compare them. Topping one beauty product on another will tell you nothing about the individual products.
Thank you for letting me post my comments in your thread. I appreciate the opportunity
Yes you are right, next time I will go back and post all the intangibles that I plan to do and make it an even longer thread. I will tell everybody how I plan on using my porter cable with menzerna, how I plan on claying the car the wheels the windows, how I plan on using a dawn wash before the zaino, QD in between coats, undercarriage spray etc. etc. I should'nt have left all of this off. Thanks for the enlightment, and thanks for letting me breath the same air as you...:bow
imported_prgallo
New member
I think the message from bretfraz was the 3 products you selected are all protectants, even thought the Zaino is called a polish. It really isn't used as a polish.
Many of the Autopians seem to like layering two "final" products to get a diferent effect, but three doesn't make any sense.
I'm going through some comparisons of my own now but from what I've seen so far, I can't tell any improvement with the products I'm using, that's just using two products.
I can tell three layers of SG does make a difference, but when topped with a Carnuaba it may give a little "effect", but when comparing body panels topped differently, it's hard to tell any improvement.
Many of the Autopians seem to like layering two "final" products to get a diferent effect, but three doesn't make any sense.
I'm going through some comparisons of my own now but from what I've seen so far, I can't tell any improvement with the products I'm using, that's just using two products.
I can tell three layers of SG does make a difference, but when topped with a Carnuaba it may give a little "effect", but when comparing body panels topped differently, it's hard to tell any improvement.
grt1today, I also think you're missing bretfraz's point. If you haven't yet done so, you might want to at least click on the Learn icon (at the top of the page) or, better yet, buy the Autopia Guide to Detailing. There you'll learn that all three products you've mentioned (Zaino, Klasse, and Souveran) fall into the "wax/sealant" category, which are "toppers" -- none of them have any polishing or glazing properties.
Yes, many of us do have brand favorites. But that's not what bretfraz's post was about. He was trying to talk about the steps. First, you need to polish if you have scratches/swirls. Whether or not you use a glaze will depend on what wax/sealant you plan to use, as some of the waxes/sealants will not work well on top of a glaze. THEN ... you can move on to one or more waxes/sealants.
Kapiche?
Yes, many of us do have brand favorites. But that's not what bretfraz's post was about. He was trying to talk about the steps. First, you need to polish if you have scratches/swirls. Whether or not you use a glaze will depend on what wax/sealant you plan to use, as some of the waxes/sealants will not work well on top of a glaze. THEN ... you can move on to one or more waxes/sealants.
Kapiche?