OK whats the truth?

M

Mobilejay

Active member
So I have been reading doing some research for something I am wanting to put together and am finding different "facts".



What is the temperature when nuba breaks down and melts. I have read, 139F I have also read 212F (95C) and then some others. Also 82C (179F)

So which one is it? Is it stupid high like 212F or is it closer to 100F?
 
I'd also like to know. If there is a definite temp then will the other ingredients in the wax cancel out the effects of whatever the high temp is?
 
While it may be true, I wouldn't believe anything from Wikipedia, any one can post any so-called "fact" they can make up!
 
dave40co said:
While it may be true, I wouldn't believe anything from Wikipedia, any one can post any so-called "fact" they can make up!
Click to expand...



Yeah but I took a look on different sites from Yahoo and Google and they are all giving around the same melting point.
 
dave40co said:
While it may be true, I wouldn't believe anything from Wikipedia, any one can post any so-called "fact" they can make up!
Click to expand...



This place: Carnauba Wax says 83 C.



This place: Carnauba wax: Encyclopedia II - Carnauba wax - Technical information says 78-85 C.



This place: Carnauba Wax T1 - Natural, Organic Plant Waxes - Plant Waxes for Industrial & Cosmetic Applications - Oils by Nature says 80-88 C.



This place: Carnauba Wax T1 - Natural, Organic Plant Waxes - Plant Waxes for Industrial & Cosmetic Applications - Oils by Nature says 78-85 C.



Alot of people dis Wikipedia, and possibly with good reason, but I've *always* found it to be a good source of information.
 
What matters is how the wax handles heat once it is combined with all the other ingredients the finished product contains. I have never had a problem using carnaubas on black paint in the summer here in Dallas.
 
Look at soemthing like Collinite 845. That stuff is used on power insulators. It makes me wonder what all is mixed in with it, and what its melting point is. I get good durability oout of it.
 
Regardless of what the wax is mixed with the wax portion will break down at the same temp. If it is mixed with high heat resistant resins then the resins won't break down and will remain on the surface. But if I understand this correctly, from the diagrams that I've seen the molecules form a chain. What happens when the carnauba wax molecules break down? You end up with missing links.
 
But do the carnauba molecules break down in a way that's significant once the mix had set up/cured/whatever :confused: Do the missing links *matter*? Hey, *I* don't know...I just go by what I experience on my cars (shoulda payed closer attention in those chem classes :o ).



If there were an issue with this, I really think that ScottWax woulda noticed by now. Even when my Jag's engine heat kills the Souveran, it's a matter of the wax not lasting very long; it's *NOT* like the wax gets compromised/weird/whatever. The hood gets *way* too hot to touch, you'd get a serious burn, but the Souveran doesn't sweat/get oily/whatever, it just needs redone sooner than some other products would.



I dunno...I don't really care if people want to go with purely synthetic products to avoid heat-related issues; I don't have a dog in this fight. But I really think I woulda noticed some kind of problem if carnaubas were as heat-sensitive as some people make 'em out to be. I've been using them since '76 (including years of use on black cars) and I really think I woulda noticed *something* (besides my need to rewax the Jag's hood kinda often) by now if it were that big a problem :nixweiss



wannafbody- Heh heh, about the only time you and I ever come close to :argue is when we discuss carnaubas :D Did you ever get over to Beaverun for a track day? I did my latest training in NJ this time instead...if I do get over to Beaverun you and I gotta get together.
 
No, $4 gas killed the idea. Don't get me wrong, I've used 845 but I also noticed that over a period of months dirt would attach itself. I'm assuming that the product was breaking down. Maybe it depends on how frequently it's applied. The worst case for me was the water spotting on my vinyl stripes protected by 845. After about 1 1/2 years I had to remove them. I couldn't get them clean. It's possible that no product would have been able to protect them:nixweiss
 
wannafbody- Yeah, gas prices made a few of my trips pricier than I'd like this year too.



I dunno how much we can extrapolate about "carnaubas" in general based on experiences with 845. That Insulator Wax is some weird stuff and I get wildly differing results with it on different vehicles (and even on different parts of the *same* vehicle).



I don't have much experience with sealants, only having used KSG, UPP, and BF (and some playing around with FK1000P), but I just never have any issues with the carnaubas I use on our drivers.



Collinite's 476S, Meg's #16, and the old pre-VOC 3M Showcar Paste simply never leave me disappointed and always hold their own in comparison with the sealants :nixweiss I think there's a whole lotta YMMV stuff here, but if the waxes let me down I'd be the first guy to try something else. I keep going with the 476S and the #16 simply because they always leave me satisfied.



On your stripes, maybe they *were* just really delicate :think:



And maybe the time frame was just too long under the conditions. A few months is pretty long for LSPs IME, and only the 476S and layered KSG last that long for me without some kind of degradation. Even my beloved #16 needs refreshed or something after three months, but then so does the UPP/BF. Gotta say that I love the KSG on the MPV though, that's one LSP/paint combo that I like and yeah, six layers lasts forever!



Heh heh, I can hear what you're thinking, but I'm not ready to try Zaino as I just don't like it on my particular paints (yeah, I know, others do but I'm, well.. me). Maybe the FK1000P will blow me away and change me to a more sealant-oriented approach, we'll see. Til then I'll just keep redoing the #16 on my wife's car, yeah, wish it did last a while longer.
 
Accumulator said:
wannafbody- Yeah, gas prices made a few of my trips pricier than I'd like this year too.



I dunno how much we can extrapolate about "carnaubas" in general based on experiences with 845. That Insulator Wax is some weird stuff and I get wildly differing results with it on different vehicles (and even on different parts of the *same* vehicle).



I don't have much experience with sealants, only having used KSG, UPP, and BF (and some playing around with FK1000P), but I just never have any issues with the carnaubas I use on our drivers.



Collinite's 476S, Meg's #16, and the old pre-VOC 3M Showcar Paste simply never leave me disappointed and always hold their own in comparison with the sealants :nixweiss I think there's a whole lotta YMMV stuff here, but if the waxes let me down I'd be the first guy to try something else. I keep going with the 476S and the #16 simply because they always leave me satisfied.



On your stripes, maybe they *were* just really delicate :think:



And maybe the time frame was just too long under the conditions. A few months is pretty long for LSPs IME, and only the 476S and layered KSG last that long for me without some kind of degradation. Even my beloved #16 needs refreshed or something after three months, but then so does the UPP/BF. Gotta say that I love the KSG on the MPV though, that's one LSP/paint combo that I like and yeah, six layers lasts forever!



Heh heh, I can hear what you're thinking, but I'm not ready to try Zaino as I just don't like it on my particular paints (yeah, I know, others do but I'm, well.. me). Maybe the FK1000P will blow me away and change me to a more sealant-oriented approach, we'll see. Til then I'll just keep redoing the #16 on my wife's car, yeah, wish it did last a while longer.
Click to expand...



You might like CS since it's very clear looking and can be used over KAIO or waxes.
 
wannafbody said:
You might like CS since it's very clear looking and can be used over KAIO or waxes.
Click to expand...



School me..what's "CS"? Sorry, I think I oughta know that but I must be having a brain-pause. Products that can be used over most anything always appeal to me, very versatile and that's good IMO.



Heh heh, I get to where there are too many products I want to try :D I just got a can of FK1000P and I don't have anything to try it on! I'm not gonna redo any of my vehicles and I like what's on them now...gotta wait until I get the M3 repainted, and the paint cures, and *then* I can try the FK1000P. And at the rate I'm going I won't have the M3 back on the road until forever :o



Heh heh#2, maybe one reason I jump to the defense of waxes so readily is that I have a case each of #16 and pre-VOC 476S (and lots of other waxes) and I plan to get my money's worth out of them :D
 
If anyone here has had their carnuba melt. Where does it go? Back into the atmosphere or does it drip off the sides of your car?
 
DW849 said:
If anyone here has had their carnuba melt. Where does it go? Back into the atmosphere or does it drip off the sides of your car?
Click to expand...



Usually it pools on the ground near the car and I have to use dawn to strip the carnuba

. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top