OK, I'm not crazy...

B

bigbobv

New member
Well, maybe I am, but not on this AIO/SG/Blitz issue.



I am almost convinced the ferver over this combination is the stuff of urban legend.



I talked with a very knowledgable gent at CMA/ProperAuoCare on this issue and he said emphatically that carnaubas do not work well on top of SG but the problem is generally not as evident on lighter colored cars. He said carnauaba is fine over AIO but that the SG does not need a topper and would fight it all the way -- something of a smear campaign, you might say.



So, is this guy right? My experience with my black bimmer would suggest "yes." My initial AIO/SG treatments were awesome, first coat of Blitz looked good but I found a few unexpected streaks the next day that I attributed to my carelessness. However, now with 2-3 coats of Blitz I have created a new color scheme -- streaky jet black chameleon. My car looks like a hologram going down the road -- changing colors and shifting three-dimensional shapes as the sun dances across it at different angles.



Blitz Schmitz. I'm sticking with SG only for now.
 
Blitz can sometimes have a streaking problem in high humidity areas. Also, when you apply it, especially to a dark car, the metal must be cool. If it is warm at all, the wax can streak.



I have used Blitz and Pinnacle Paste Glaz over my car, and I have never had a problem.
 
I spoke with two professional detailers on 2 separate visits to Griots Garage manufacturing plant last month. Both basically had the opinion that anymore than 2 coats of any kind of wax is a waste of time. "Sure, you may get a longer lasting product on your finish, but you'll most likely want to strip everything off and work the swirl marks that are inevitably induced over a few months time..that means you have that much more 'product' to strip."



In other words, polishing, then waxing once will produce great results, rinse and repeat 3-4 months later..and save some cartilige in your elbows. ;)



Now, I'm not saying,(nor they I suspect) that it will hurt your finish, but what I gathered is that they are saying to wax the wax on the finish is a waste of time in their opinion. Of course, they do this for a living, so I imagine they like to see owners return after 3 or 4 months as well.
 
I for one do NOT strip, and polish every few months. I think a lot of members on here do not practice that either. If one was using only carnuba, it might be necessary, but carnuba is easy to strip and doesn't last long anyhow, so that doesn't make sense about not layering more than 2 coats.



I would strip and polish maye once a year if I had swirls, but if not, just clean, and keep layering when using synthetic products.
 
Just reporting from the horses mouth..take it for what its worth.



(Incidently, the discussion seemed to focus around Carnauba based, not polymers. Both these guys had private detail shops, one with a chain of them in Toronto...and both do not use polymers.)
 
Ripsnort,



Most detail shop I know of don't use polymer's either. But, their is a simple reason. Polymer products are expensive to buy in bulk, and you have to use them less often and caranuba based products. Most "pro" detail shops buy the cheapest thing they can find in gallon sizes to keep overhead low and profits high. Durability is not a major concern for detail shops. They want you comming back often so the can charge you more $$$. To be honest, most people know so little about car care, that they really dont care what is on their car. They are happy if it looks clean when they pick it up. So with the customers lack of knowledge on the subject, many pro shops can get away with using low quality products.



But, just like everything, there are exceptions. I am sure there are some detail places that use quality stuff and not everything is about $$$
 
There are some quality detail shops out there that really have some expertise and use quality products. MKost use cheap, bulk, generic carnubas though. It gets the job done...remember their two main goals....to catch the eye of the customer and keep them coming back. JOB DONE.
 
Ripsnort said "...opinion that anymore than 2 coats of any kind of wax is a waste of time"



The Meguiar's rep told me exactly the same thing - and they market a lot of different carnauba and ploymer based concoctions.



But I don't have the patience or time to get 5 coats of polymer anything on my car before I end up stripping/polishing anyway - so I don't know if they really do continue to improve.
 
I never EVER stripped zaino and started over. That was the first car that I started using it on and as a test for the 2 years I had the car, I only kept layering on coats whenever I had a chance. I did clay the car about 2 times in the 2 years I had it, but other than that, no polish, no abrasives, no stripping,etc,etc. I just washed, quick detailed, and added a coat of zaino whenever I could. This is a pic taken just before I sold it with 70K miles on it.

Now I don't recommend this in every instance, but take it for what it is worth.....



<img src=http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1575126&a=12035449&p=44807097>



<img src=http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1575126&a=12035449&p=44807093>



Excuse the crappy quality scanned pic....serves no justice...
 
I use Klasse and either Souveran or Blitz as a topper. I had a haze that developed on the car which made it look like it had 3D swirls. I tried QD'ing, and re-wiping with an MF and also tried a charisma. I finally took my PC with an MF bonnet and did basically a dry run, though I put one spritz of Crystal Mist on the bonnet before starting. I went over the whole car and buffed the entire surface. It took away all the streaking, all the 3D swirls and the haze has yet to come back!



As for me, I have used both Klasse and Zaino. I like the Klasse very much, however, I think it is slightly more difficult to apply/remove. Not much, but getting SG off is a bit harder than taking Zaino off. Zaino almost glides off. I think that Zaino has a better shine than Klasse, but I prefer the shine/depth of the Klasse/Blitz or Souveran better than Zaino, at least on the dark colors. I also noticed a darkening effect of the wax over the Klasse. For the dark colors, I actually liked that effect. I don't know if I would put more than one layer of wax over the Klasse unless you wanted to darken the color further. Klasse certainly is the stronger link for protection. The Zaino on silver is excellent. I am not through experimenting yet, and this is part of the fun that I have with detailing! I have not used wax over Zaino as I have been told that it is incompatible.



Obviously we all have opinions and different tastes in looks. I am not sure if anyone has ever done a side by side comparison in durability and wear, which is more objective than subective. I think this is where the Waxtest.com guys are maybe missing the boat. They are rating waxes and polymers arbitrarily without much subjective discussion from the people who have different tastes in looks and there was little or no discussion on durability. I don't think anyone can accurately tell you what will look good to you. It might guide you, but you really need to see for yourself.



H
 
i have no intention of stripping anything off after Zaino is on there...unless something crazy happens...im just gonna keep layering....with the as needed clay..etc....i love the way it looks and as long as it stays that way...i layer away............cause im lazy!!!!!!!!!...god bless synthetics....:D



ps...is it the case...as said by bigboy ....that Klasse is considered by most Autopians to be more effective protection wise than Zaino....i dont think i got that in all my readings....
 
I'm sorry if my syntax was a bit nebulous, but I meant that Klasse is the strongest link of the Klasse/wax combo. So even if the wax doesn't last as long, or only has one coat instead of multiple coats, you still have the Klasse protecting the car.



I really have no idea which of the polymer/acrylics is more durable or provides better protection against the elements. I think that is what nobody has really compared yet. A test, if done under controlled conditions might be able to answer that. But given the different methods of maintenance for each, it still might not be an "apples to apples" comparison... :confused:



H
 
alot of the tests that are done are very hard to judge...different applicators...different pressure on the applicator...different starting condition of the paints...i hear ya....i love that syntax nebulous combo....sounds good....reminds me of that fluff stuff somehow...im hingry...see what u did...:D ...but i get ya...i think i just read it wrong...too fast...as usual for me...:)
 
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