Non- or low-abrasive paint treatment

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imported_rayvenn

New member
DavidB's thread about possibly over-polishing paint has me rethinking my paint care scheme. I think I'll go for more paintwork cleaning combined with glazes or waxes with fillers to take care of the small stuff. I'll wait a good bit longer before I use the more abrasive stuff.



That being said, there are many products I don't know anything about, so there are probably several that I could add to my non-abrasive list that I'm unaware of. How about a listing of products that are non-abrasive, or have very low abrasives ... products that you could use any time you wanted to without worrying about cumulative damage?



AIO certainly comes to mind. Wasn't there an article or thread about David using P21S Paintwork Cleansing Lotion every day for a month? So, I'm guessing that and Sonus Paintwork Cleanser are safe. (unless somebody disagrees ... David?). An example of a product I'm unfamiliar with is Wolfgang's Pre-Wax Polish Enhancer. Ditto for Poorboy's Pro Polish and PwC. Would any of these go on this list? Any additions/inputs are welcome.





For ease of reading:



AIO

P21S Paintwork Cleansing Lotion

Sonus Paintwork Cleanser



ClearKote RMG
 
This isn't an easy-reading list, but I feel a few explanations might be warranted.



Mike from 1Z once said that their mild polishes such as MP, Express, and Wax Polish Soft are so mild that you can use them as often as you'd like. IMO VM is in this category as well.



Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion and Zymol HD Cleanse are in the same category as the P21S GEPC.



Autoglym's SRP is more abrasive than AIO but I can't imagine it ever being a problem.



AIO and the polishes/paint cleaner from Blackfire are basically nonabrasive. Somebody once said the BF polish was abrasive but it sure didn't give me any indication of that when I used it. If these products *do* contain abrasives, they're nothing to worry about. I'd expect the similar products from 4* and WG to be similar.



Meg's "Pure Polishes" (#3/#5/#7/#81) are all non-abrasive as is Mother's Glaze, One Grand's Omega Glaze, and 3M IHG.



IIRC, the step 1 and step 2 products in Meg's Deep Crystal system (as well as its wax) are nonabrasive.
 
Thank you, Accumulator. I was particularly wondering whether VM was on this list. I just ordered it, and wanted to know if I had to "ration" using it or not. I plan to have this car for a while.
 
rayvenn- You won't have any problems using VM on a regular basis.



FWIW, I keep my wife's cars *relatively* marring free. I don't get out the rotary and really make them perfect, not ever. Still, I keep them nice enough that only an "Autopian" would ever find anything to criticize, get the picture? On these cars, I polish maybe twice a year using stuff like 1Z PP, or 3M PI-III RC/MG, etc. Somewhat aggressive products but not strong enough to take out all the imperfections. She keeps her cars a pretty long time and I've *never* had any problems with thinning the clear. Same story with the cars I maintained for my parents. I polished them quite a bit but never *too* aggressively. Never had a problem, even with cars that were in the family for over a decade (well, no problems until I took a rotary to the single stage on the '84 Volvo last year :o but that was an "outside 24/7" car that had been through a lot and I knew I was playing with fire).
 
Accumulator said:
rayvenn- You won't have any problems using VM on a regular basis.



FWIW, I keep my wife's cars *relatively* marring free. I don't get out the rotary and really make them perfect, not ever. Still, I keep them nice enough that only an "Autopian" would ever find anything to criticize, get the picture? .....
Click to expand...



Accumulator,

Thank you. You precisely identified my (poorly defined) goal ... that's exactly how I would like to care for this paint. I got the car used, and the paint was not well taken care of. It's looking a lot better (to me, anyway), but there are still flaws that I am reluctant to repair because of their depth. I'd rather live with the flaw than mess up a larger area trying to fix it. I AM just getting started with this whole Autopian-level paint care idea, so it makes a great test bed.



However, I would also like to experiment with different combos of products, which means cleaning off the previous applications. I think I'll try AIO for most of that.



When you say "use VM on a regular basis" ... I know some people use it as a cleaner just about every time they apply a wax or sealant. Do you figure it's safe to use ... on a monthly basis, perhaps, if I want to try new combos that often? I'm hoping it's fairly mild, since some use it as a trim/glass cleaner, too.



Oh, BTW ... per your advice in another thread ... currently enroute to me are 3M 05933 and 05937. I won't be using the RC on a regular basis. How about the glaze? Any abrasives in that? Thanks for the recommendation on those two.
 
Rayvenn- The 3M 05933 and 05937 are good for the occasional fairly aggressive polishing. The Machine Glaze (05937) *does* contain abrasives, but how "aggressive" this product is will depend on your paint. On an Audi it's very mild, on softer paint it could be fairly aggressive.



Once a month would *probably* be OK with the VM but if *I* were gonna "polish" that often I'd probably use something even less (mechanically) aggressive like the AIO, at least if dealing with soft paint. On hard clear I wouldn't worry about it.
 
A wonderful mild cleanser sealant is NXT. Very, very mild cleansing (this is a good feature that I believe Meguiar's missed the boat on). I have used it as a VM/P21S GEPC/ WG cleanser substitute and just wipe the areas down with IPA if I intend to use a sealant that requires a oil-free base.
 
Accumulator,



Thank you for the clarification. I understand there are many variables in this equation; I appreciate you sharing your experience with me/us. Other family members, having seen the changes in my car, have asked for a similar treatment. I figure I'll be using the 3Ms on those that haven't had anything done to them. Ever. After that first treatment (if one that aggressive is required, I'll check first), I hope to go to the method you outlined for your wife's car. Also, I didn't want to let them sell out all the 05933 and 05937, so I picked it up now.



Regarding hard vs soft clear: I have a 1996 Olds Model 88LS. Any idea where that falls on the Brinnell scale of clearcoats? heh.



Or is there a compendium of this info somewhere? Or a general guideline of GM cars, GM trucks, Ford/Linc/Merc, etc?







blkZ28Conv,



Excellent idea, and one I never would have come up with ... using the cleaner part of a cleaner/wax, removing that, and sealing with another product. Nice judo. Thank you.



Thanks for all the info.
 
blkZ28Conv- Interesting about the NXT. I never thought of it for that...IIRC its cleansers don't fully remove Meg's "pure polish" effects either...hmm might have to try that out sometime after all.



Rayvenn- Dunno about the '96 GM paint, I haven't got my Caprice to the point where I'm dealing with cosmetics yet :D If I had to guess I'd say it's not too hard because the previous owner pretty much buffed my clear to death and I've seen a lot of '94-'96 Caprices that were that way. So I'd take it easy and do the "reasonable is good enough" approach on the Olds.
 
Accumulator said:


Rayvenn- Dunno about the '96 GM paint, I haven't got my Caprice to the point where I'm dealing with cosmetics yet :D If I had to guess I'd say it's not too hard because the previous owner pretty much buffed my clear to death and I've seen a lot of '94-'96 Caprices that were that way. So I'd take it easy and do the "reasonable is good enough" approach on the Olds.
Click to expand...



Well ..... ratz. I was hoping it was a bit tougher than that ... but good to know in advance. Better safe than sorry, etc. Thank you for the info.



I was looking for a Caprice in '99 when I wound up w/ this Olds ... I wanted to replace my 84 Impala (!) with an updated version. Couldn't locate one in good enough shape, though. Wish they hadn't quit making them.
 
blkZ28Conv said:
A wonderful mild cleanser sealant is NXT. Very, very mild cleansing (this is a good feature that I believe Meguiar's missed the boat on). I have used it as a VM/P21S GEPC/ WG cleanser substitute and just wipe the areas down with IPA if I intend to use a sealant that requires a oil-free base.
Click to expand...





blkZ28Conv,



Am I understanding you correctly? Are you saying you use NXT just for it's cleaning ability than you wipe off the protection that NXT leaves behind with IPA? Than apply another LSP for protection?
 
Paint Cleaner / Mild Polish:

The use of abrasive type polish / cleaners should always be restricted to specific problems. Most original paint finishes are tougher on the outer surface than the layers underneath. The outer layers should be preserved as far as possible. Always use the least aggressive product first, evaluate the surface, then only if necessary `step-up' to a more abrasive product.



The abrading ability of any polish can be changed by their application method (i.e. machine or hand application, speed and / or pressure used, using it wet or dry and / or type of foam composition (different foam compositions and / or densities have a differing abrading ability) Machine, foam pad and product; the work is approximately distributed, 60% product, 30% foam composition, 8% pressure applied and / or speed of rotation or oscillation and 2% machine liner speed, feet per second.



It is preferable to polish 2-3 times to restore the paint film surface than to use an unnecessarily abrasive machine polish / foam pad combination.

Klasse All-In-One

Zymol HD Cleanse

Autoglym Paint Renovator

P21S Paintwork Cleaner

Pinnacle Paintwork Cleaning Lotion



Note: You could also apply a mild cleaner/polish with a terry cloth applicator to make it a little more aggressive



There are also â€Ëœcleaner-wax products-

Zymol (Turtle Wax) Cleaner Wax

Meguiarâ€â„¢s NXT



To name but a fewâ€Â¦

JonM
 
stevet said:
blkZ28Conv,



Am I understanding you correctly? Are you saying you use NXT just for it's cleaning ability than you wipe off the protection that NXT leaves behind with IPA? Than apply another LSP for protection?
Click to expand...



Hi Steve,

Yes. The LSP I use requires a oil/silicone free surface for maximum bonding. The NXT is very mild and leaves a nice smooth and clear finish after the oils are removed. I strive for the finish itself to glow, reflect, present depth and shine. This is not a knock on NXT's protective value but I perfer another LSP for that. Since I brought a bottle to test and still returned to using my favorite LSP, I just found another use for this product in my detailing arsenal.
 
BlkTac05 said:
*****BlkZ28Conv*****

Would you be willing to tell us exactly what your favorite LSP is?????
Click to expand...



I'm not blkZ28Conv but it's no secret what his LSP is. Zaino:D





blkZ28Conv, so your just using NXT as a cleaner because you want to use it up and not waste it? Or would you actually buy some more just to use it as a cleaner like many do with AIO?
 
Hmm. The more I think about this, the more I'm glad that EX doesn't appear to have issues bonding over VM. Use a little VM to clean things up and fill some imperfections, put a few coats of EX over the top of that .... boomzoom, done. I'm in the Accumulator "reasonable is good enough" mode with this car. It's been over a month since my last product application. I noticed some swirling on the trunk lid. Think I'll try half of the trunk w/ VM and EX, see how it compares to the untreated side, and wait a few weeks to see how long the VM/EX keep the swirls down.
 
For over a year now, I have used NXT exclusively on my black Hemi and my wife's silver Tacoma -- no polish ever. Both trucks look great and show no marring. I apply the NXT with a PC and a polishing pad rather than a finishing pad and I work it just as I would a polish. I've even managed to remove minor water spotting with NXT. I apply the NXT every six weeks or so. My last application of NXT on the Hemi was the paste wax version. I applied it by hand with the foam pad that came the wax. Again -- no evidence of marring when I was done.



Everytime that I get ready to reach for the Meguiar's #80, I tell myself why bother and go directly to the NXT.



Both trucks are daily drivers. You can see from my signature that my trucks are rarely Autopian clean except for right after a wash. But right after that wash, they sure look good. :D



Tom :cool:
 
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