Non-OEM paint super easy to swirl. Why?

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imported_Mighty HD1

New member
Two vehicles in question:



First my 98 grand am. It's black. Repainted about 3 years ago with PPG. Honest to God the paint seems to swirl SUPER easy as compared to the OEM paint.



Second: The 04 GMC Sierra HD. The tailgate originally. Repainted with PPG. Extra hardner in the mix upon my request. (I know the owner very well of the body shop). A few months later in the direct sun light it looks as if it was washed with a sandy mitt. The rest of the truck looks perfect.



Now the hood, front valance, fenders and driver side door are having to be replaced due to an accident. My friend who owns the shop said he'll get the best paint $ can buy (I'll pay the difference if needed) and put something in it (forgot what it was) to help reduce the risk of swirls.



Why is non-OEM paint so much "softer" and easier to swirl VS the OEM factory paint?? I wash my truck with GREAT care: rinse the mitt after every panel, etc.



Thanks guys!
 
Because the aftermarket paint is not baked out at the high temperatures that are used at the factory. At the factory, they bake the paint before they put in any of the rubber, plastic, glass, engine, interior, etc.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Because the aftermarket paint is not baked out at the high temperatures that are used at the factory. At the factory, they bake the paint before they put in any of the rubber, plastic, glass, engine, interior, etc.
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Even if it's done in a paint booth that is heated?



He has a very nice booth that gets pretty darn hot when it "cures" the paint.
 
So is there any way around this to prevent swirls? Any type of change in the mix of the paint? Will it eventually cure over time in the sunlight?



I have made myself sick over preventing swirls. Three years of owning the truck with no marring, etc is pretty good. Now I'm going to be sweating bullets over this. :buffing:
 
The paint booths used at the shops do get nice and toasty, but there's a limit. Most paints only need temps between 160 - 180 degrees F to cure.



Setec hit it on the head about only there being only the chassis assembled (no glass, rubber, or plastic) on the car when it gets baked (so there is also no gasoline, brake fluid, or any other chemical) that is combustionable present when it goes into the oven either.



Lastly the paint used at the factory is not the same as what I/you buy at the Autobody/paint supplier or what the shops use (they have mixing systems there and usually mix their own). This type of paint is known as "re"-finish and is applied in a different manner than at the factories.



Having said all of this. I quite frankly see no difference in either paint's ability to resist swirls.



MorBiD
 
The paint is not finished curing when it comes out of the heating booth at the paint shop. That "kick starts" the curing process, but paint continues to cure for weeks or months longer. One thing that may have happened is if the paint was waxed before the paint finished curing. If that happened, the paint will never reach its full hardness and will swirl much easier.



Here's a popular post on how long to wait to wax after a repaint.. These times given account for paint being baked at the body shop.

http://autopia.org/forum/car-detailing/64978-paint-cure-time-not-necessary-2.html#post647893



Ignore the name on the link, that was the originial title for the thread where this post was made.
 
velobard said:
The paint is not finished curing when it comes out of the heating booth at the paint shop. That "kick starts" the curing process, but paint continues to cure for weeks or months longer. One thing that may have happened is if the paint was waxed before the paint finished curing. If that happened, the paint will never reach its full hardness and will swirl much easier.



Here's a popular post on how long to wait to wax after a repaint.. These times given account for paint being baked at the body shop.

http://autopia.org/forum/car-detailing/64978-paint-cure-time-not-necessary-2.html#post647893



Ignore the name on the link, that was the originial title for the thread where this post was made.
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Good thread. That may have been the problem with the tailgate on the GMC and the Grand Am.



When I had the tailgate done I was ok'd to give it a fresh coat of FMJ. I put a coat of it on about two weeks after it had been repainted. The Grand am however was allready waxed and done when we picked it up after the entire-repaint.



I'm guessing that I can have him maybe have the truck in the paint booth @ 175 overnight? or at least longer than 45 minutes? I'm good friends with him so this wouldn't be a problem if it will help.
 
Not sure if that would help, unfortunately I'm a little skeptical but I'll be happy to be proven wrong.



He may also counter the information I pointed out, I've spoken to plenty of body shops that say it's fine to wax right away in spite of what the paint manufacturers say in their repsonses posted in that other thread. If the paint turns out softer later, like you're experiencing, then you'll probably be told that re-paints are never as hard as the original. That's true, but not to that extent.
 
Mighty HD said:
I'm guessing that I can have him maybe have the truck in the paint booth @ 175 overnight? or at least longer than 45 minutes? I'm good friends with him so this wouldn't be a problem if it will help.
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Overnight?! As MorBid alluded to, I bet that will give the evaporative emissions system a real test!
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Overnight?! As MorBid alluded to, I bet that will give the evaporative emissions system a real test!
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Yes it will surely get the fuel system a bit hot.



Do you think it would help if it baked all night? I'm willing to try/pay for anything to get the "hardiness" of the OEM paint back. As I said previously I have made myself nearly sick keeping this thing clean and swirl-free. I'd hate to have 4 panels go to hell and the rest of the truck look great.



:wall
 
Mighty HD said:
Do you think it would help if it baked all night? :wall
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No it will not and your not likely to find any shop (save one you build yourself) to keep it in there that long.



I'm no uber professional but have painted a few cars over the years using all the same equipment a shop has except one of those booths (and I'm working on that).



All the application\ mixing\ curing times, and time to wax information about any Base or Clear Coat can be found in that product's "P-Sheet" or product sheet. It also may to some degree be found on the label.



The paint manufacuter has strict time limit's and temp's that need to be followed in order to ensure a full bake cycle while not introducing probelms with the finish which will have to be repaired.



Also like I said, the booths with curing systems and all run off 3 phase 480, 208, or 230 volts.



That type of Electrical Service is buisness class and you pay not only a monthly surchage (a certain minimum even if you don't use any electric) but also for usage.



So it would cost them more than they could reasonably charge someone even if they could leave it in there.



They will only run the booth when needed for as long as it's needed. It's not the same as turning on the heater in your house let's say.



Lastly I'd be leary of applying any silicone products to paint which hasn't fully cured. If the shop is telling you it's okay get it in writing along with a warranty to re-paint should the finish fail later on down the line.



MorBiD
 
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