News : Massive Problems with GM Gen III V8

M

Myles

New member
Hey guys,



Over here in Australia these has been a huge uproar about the Gm Gen III V8 engine.



This engine is fitted to Holdens ( www.holden.com.au ) and HSV's( www.hsv.com.au ).



Ther have been articles in all major magazines and newspapers about the problems that GMH (General Motors Holden) is having with this engine.



The engine is chewing massive amounts of oil, and has severe piston knocking when cold as well as various other problems with valves etc.



Holden under warranty is rebuilding the engines if the owner complains.



The problem is, there are so many Gen III's waiting to be rebuilt that there is a 10 month waiting list. :scared



I know that the Gen III's are made in two factorys. I think we get the Canadian ones.



Has anyone had experience with these engines. The only ones that dont seem to be having problems are the 300kw Callaway modifed one in the HSV GTS.



This is 2003, I thought the days of massive quantities of oil being chewed and piston knocking in modern engines were long gone.
 
What displacement?



I have heard on some of the 4.8,5.3, 5.7 they needed different PVC valves with smaller orifcaes in it becuase it would allow oild to drain back on top of piston at start up and well make a puffy white oily smoke cloud...



Cold start up piston slap has been beaten to death.....



I think GM has redesigned the piston in 2004/2005 engines to get rid of the knocking as it had something to do with the oil wiper ring and skirt were to blame.....I read where GM has final responded about this..........in writing.



Search the net the info is out there now...
 
This is not the news I wanted to read since GM is planning to import the Holden as the new Pontiac GTO late this fall! I have seriously considering purchasing one.



I need to read up on these engines and their problems, before making a $35,000 buy.............



Do you have any links to articles discussing the engine problems?
 
Luster said:
This is not the news I wanted to read since GM is planning to import the Holden as the new Pontiac GTO late this fall! I have seriously considering purchasing one.



I need to read up on these engines and their problems, before making a $35,000 buy.............



Do you have any links to articles discussing the engine problems?
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I have owned GM all my life, in my family right now there are no less than5 GM's that are supposedly potential "slappers" all of them are dead quiet and use no oil. I think this problem is vastly exaggerated and has taken on a life of its own via the vast conspiracy network known as the internet. As you research this problem you'll find people blaming everything form squeaky fan belts, and power steering problems on piston slap. I love my Avalanche and think nobody makes a better truck than GM.
 
Avalanche said:
I have owned GM all my life, in my family right now there are no less than5 GM's that are supposedly potential "slappers" all of them are dead quiet and use no oil. I think this problem is vastly exaggerated and has taken on a life of its own via the vast conspiracy network known as the internet. As you research this problem you'll find people blaming everything form squeaky fan belts, and power steering problems on piston slap. I love my Avalanche and think nobody makes a better truck than GM.
Click to expand...



I agree with you......I have never owned anything but GM cars.



I've had six Grand Prix's and the only reason I ever had one in the shop was a blown speaker (replaced under warranty!).



It sounds like a whole bunch of over-reacting to a few people's problems.



(Can't wait to test drive the new LS1-GTO!):D
 
to be fair, everyone I've known with GM vehicles has had major problems.



My family purchased an 1984 Oldsmobile Omega. After doing some research on it, I found it was built on the GM X-Body platform. This same platform was used for the Chevrolet Citation, a car which was described at length in Ralph Nader's book "Unsafe at any Speed". Our Oldsmobile had over 22 Federally Mandated recalls. It developed leaks in the engine, transmission, differential, oil pan, gas tank, and every fuel resevoir possible. It drank oil, killed tires, was endlessly out of alignment and needing tuneups.



Next, we purchased a GMC/Chevrolet Van Conversion. Despite routine and careful maintenance, the main cylender seized and two pistons cracked. The speakers fell out of the front doors and the woodworking was coming apart when we sold it only 6 years later.



These two vehicles, on top of a friend's deathtrap Chrysler LaBaron, my uncle's pyroshow Fierro which blew up, earlier misshaps with a Pontiac 9000, Chevrolet Celebrity, and Plymouth Dusters led my folks to believe that GM was screwing the customer over.



So we bought some Hondas. We sold the first one in 1995 with 400,000 miles on it for more than we paid for it. Last year we got tired of the 1990 Civic and sold it after 214,000 miles.



But the fun with GM didn't stop. My girlfriend's parents bought two GM 15 passenger vans. The air conditioning died after 150 miles. Warranty replaced that though. It did it again at 50,000 miles. They've also gone through transmissions, radiators, and gaskets with unbelievable speed.



Reading through Consumer Guide's manual for used car buying, the only GM vehicle they recommend is (SURPRISE!) the Geo/Chevy Prizm, which is just a rebadged Toyota Corolla.



Chevy's flagship, the Corvette has major fit and finish issues. The most gorgeous combination of technology and art they've ever made has a little problem where the steering column locks up suddenly in low speed, and high speed situations.



So, when it came time for the family to select three new cars (2 that we pay for, and my father's company car) my dad handed down an edict:



"If we're paying for it, it will be a Honda or a Toyota. We will never EVER buy an American brand."



I'm not so stubborn as to say I never will be an American car,but it's going to take a lot of reliability improvements and customer service improvements before I stop buying Honda's.



Right now, there's just no intelligent reason to buy American. If you want muscle, there are European imports that far outclass American cars. If you want comfort and reliability, there are Japanese cars that make an embarassment of Domestic models. GM needs to take a look at their competition, and focus on what's important. I don't need 64 different rebadging of the same car. Everyone knows a Buick is an Oldsmobile. A Camaro is a Firebird. SO, how about a little less money on the advertising campaigns and a little more focus on quality. Until then, I'll add the word POORLY, to the made in the USA stickers.
 
we've known the LS1's have problems for a long time, complaints of oil consumption and pison knock have been going in the f-body and vette circles for a long time.... no surprise that holden is having the same problems. Hopefully this wakes GM up about finally finding a fix!
 
Being totally honest ALL cars have their fair share of problems. Hondas and Toyotas are nice cars, but IMO are nothing special. My Mom had a 1988 Accord back in the day, when it hit 80K miles it starting having problems galore. Water pump went, timing belt, calipers siezed, need new radiator, master cylinder. The list went on and on. It was nothing but downhill from there. My Dad had a 2001 Avalon XLS, that car was a big disappointment. He had some problems with it in less than 20,000 miles.



See, problems are not just limited to American cars. In fact my Ford Explorer just rolled over 80K miles and I have yet to have a single problem with it. The only things it's required in that time is a new belt, idler pully and heater control valve ($17 part) and new brake pads. That's it. I do have buddies who are not happy with their LS1's for the reasons SLD mentioned. What really ticks them off more is that GM does not seem very interested in fixing the problem.
 
My best friend and I share an '89 F150 as our "work truck", it has the 302 V-8, still gets around 17mpg on the highway and has over 180k miles. The truck has been in their family since new and has only needed routine maintenence.



My grandmother had a '96 Explorer limited with one of the first 4.0 SOCH V-8 (known for major problems in its 1st years). It needed replacing within the first 2,000 miles. Before this she had a '92 Explorer, and still has it around. It runs just fine, and has only needed minor replacment parts.



My dad had a early '90's Chevy truck with un countable problems, it finally was declared a lemon when he got rid of it in about '95.



Then my friends '97 Chevy Blazer has about 90k miles and still runs fine today.



This all comes down to what SRL said, all car companies have problems. Its just not possible to get around them, especially considering how mass produced cars are now.



:xyxthumbs
 
jem7vwh said:
Chevy's flagship, the Corvette has major fit and finish issues. The most gorgeous combination of technology and art they've ever made has a little problem where the steering column locks up suddenly in low speed, and high speed situations.

Click to expand...



I don't know if you are aware of this, but the Corvette recieved JD Power's award for best premium sports car in initial quality.



You mentioned that all the chumps that want American muscle should just buy European cars. Are you aware of the problems BMW owners are reporting of their M3 engines? BMW isn't doing much about it either, and are finally acknowledging that there is even a problem. Maybe if the cars went for a longer boat ride, owners would be willing to overlook this problem too... Also, are you aware that Volkswagen has one of the lowest ratings from JD Powers in initial quality?



I like the way you started your post: "to be fair, everyone I've known with GM vehicles has had major problems." Glad to see you are going to be fair. For a second there, I thought it might have some bias... ;)



I also liked how you associate rebranding with only American cars. I'm sure VW or Toyota or Honda would never dream of such a thing...
 
Take is easy everyone, we all know that every car company has troubles and none are perfect, lets not let this turn in to a flame war....
 
Aurora40 said:
I don't know if you are aware of this, but the Corvette recieved JD Power's award for best premium sports car in initial quality.



I like the way you started your post: "to be fair, everyone I've known with GM vehicles has had major problems." Glad to see you are going to be fair. For a second there, I thought it might have some bias... ;)



I also liked how you associate rebranding with only American cars. I'm sure VW or Toyota or Honda would never dream of such a thing...
Click to expand...



I began my post with the words "to be fair" because it was following two posts supporting GM. I wouldn't advise anyone scared of GM to buy a BMW. But the facts don't lie. How many American made cars made Consumer Guide's Good Bet Most Reliable Cars? I counted ONE. And it's really a Toyota! The Honda Civic, Accord, CR-V, Prelude, and Odyssey are routinely noted for their reliability. I was very impressed to note that the Corvette received a high reliability rating by JD Powers. However, being a frequent visiter at the Corvette Forums, I can assure you that the lockup problem I noted is a very real and serious problem.



Clearly, American companies aren't the only ones who rebrand models- I suggested though, that GM would find better uses for their money by making only the Camaro or the Firebird (not both) and using the other advertising money figuring out how to make them last longer than the puberty of their owners.



Of course, every car line has lemons. Every maker has gems (I've seen Ford trucks last into the 600k range). But as someone who's worked on the vehicles and heard the complaints of others, I've concluded GM has major problems.



Given your screenname, I'm sure you have lots of money invested into your car, making you want to believe that GM, and particularily Oldsmobile make quality vehicles. Furthermore, I'm willing to bet that there was a time when that was very true. The 1980-82 Cutlass Supreme's I've worked one were very nice vehicles. But since the advent of the mid 80's, the facts have not weighed on that side of the discussion. Oldsmobile and GM vehicles are on the "Cars to Avoid" list in Consumer Guide's book more than any other car except Dodge Intrepid and Ram.



I'm not trying to suggest that everyone purchase a car because it comes from oversees, I'm merely suggesting that GM would do better to earn the business of people with little money by engineering more reliable vehicles such as Honda and Toyota.



Finally, I wondered if you could explain your last comment there. Please name me the occasion when Honda has renamed their Civic or Accord? How about the Prelude? Even their 'sister' brands Acura/Honda and Lexus/Toyota aren't close enough to make engine swaps reasonable. Anybody remember when a bunch of Oldsmobiles sued GM in the 80's when they got their brand new cars with "CHEVY 350" engines in them instead of the Rocket Oldsmobile engines?





Whatever...not trying to start a war, or change anyone's mind- just saying, I'm not surprised GM's having qualities issues, because they've never gone away since the mid 80's. It's not opinion- it's a matter of history. Next time you go through a parking lot, look around. Count the number of Dodge and Chevy cars you see from 1990. Better yet, watch the freeway. How many do you see still driving correctly, not burning oil and sagging. In my parking lot outside, I count 4 out of 30 Civics, several Suburus, one old Bronco, and a bunch of new F150s.
 
Originally posted by Aurora40

I don't know if you are aware of this, but the Corvette recieved JD Power's award for best premium sports car in initial quality.
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Anybody that thinks high initial quality survey marks equals a high quality vehicle, probably also bought a car Chevrolet Vega and thought it was a great car too. :rolleyes: Initial quality doesn't mean squat, IMO. You'd get a perfect score from all the BMW M3 owners if asked about their ownership experience within the first 6 months. Try the JD Power's pole after a year's worth of hard driving or frequent track usage, which is what the car was designed for and you'd get a some what different result. If BMW is offering a 100k mile warranty on the M3's engine, something isn't right. :nixweiss



All I'm saying is JD Power's Initial Quality survey should be seen as coming from owner's wearing Rose Tinted Glasses. Heck, the C5 Corvette was such a MAJOR leap in refinement and technology from the C4 Corvette, it's no wonder it earned high marks from the JD Power survey.
 
You could make a luandry list of problems with any manufacturer, be it American or Foreign. Toyota is having a huge piston slap isuue right now, most notably with their new V6 and V8 engines. As far as there being no intellignet reason for buying American, well thats just plain silly. As far as "muscle", European makes cant deliver anywhere near the bang for the buck that a Camaro, Firebird, or even the Mustang does. Even the most "anti american car" automotive magazines say the same. The only car that comes close is the Subaru WRX and thats not European, and lets not get into Subarus quality issues. Imagine sitting at a stop light in your new $45,000 BMW and getting dusted by a 17 year old in a 3 year old Camaro. I know , I know.. the BMW is ultimately more refined and all that.... Lets face it, there are no race tracks or road courses on your way to work, it's all about the stoplight wars.
 
HellrotCi said:


All I'm saying is JD Power's Initial Quality survey should be seen as coming from owner's wearing Rose Tinted Glasses.
Click to expand...



Is'nt any survey when the owners are the sources of information?



As far as JD Powers goes, arent they the ones who gave the Renault "LeCar" Best new car of the year back in the 80's? Listening to any survey is like trying to depend on movie critics to pick your movies. You just have to get what you want/like and move on from there.
 
Originally posted by Avalanche

Is'nt any survey when the owners are the sources of information?
Click to expand...
Yeah, but those are the same people who say, "I never wax my car. I just run it through a car wash and it still looks great." :rolleyes:
 
Over here in Australia these has been a huge uproar about the Gm Gen III V8 engine.



This engine is fitted to Holdens ( www.holden.com.au ) and HSV's( www.hsv.com.au ).



There have been articles in all major magazines and newspapers about the problems that GMH (General Motors Holden) is having with this engine.



The engine is chewing massive amounts of oil, and has severe piston knocking when cold as well as various other problems with valves etc.



- Your piston knocking is your rings. When they heat up they expand to fit the chamber and you’re all set. I have the same thing on my 1999 Camaro SS. It is normal.



- Your oil consumption can be several things. The rings for one, they are not pulling all of the oil on the down stroke. GM has offered "scaper rings" with a sharp edge to solve this if it bothers you. Secondly, it could be your driving habits, if you keep your rpm high but your not racing then it is called "high revolution, low load". The piston rings are not straight, they are flexing up and down, you really need to shift low if your driving normal, the high speeds makes the rings stay straight. My car barely burns 1/4 of a quart after 3000 miles. It could burn just because you drive it hard; these motors (LS1) are not built like a Saturn.



I have researched the issue and now I am very comfortable with the issue. I have my consumption down to barely anything, you can’t even tell when you drain the fluid, you need to measure it. There is no way they are tearing apart my motor and risk scratching my car. Once they take it apart it is not the same as it was when it was new, I don't care what anyone says. Unless you’re burning more than a quart every 3000 miles I wouldn't sweat it.
 
Just for the record, i dont own a GM or a car with an LS1.



Just reporting on all the media over here.



When Holden makes a public announcment on the problem i reckon its serious enough for concern. Hey lets hope all Autopians were the lucky ones that got a good engine.



And a Pontiac GTo (Holden Monaro) is a good car, handles well etc. and is sexy.
 
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