Newbie needs help please with paint issues!

C

coryl

New member
Hi all,



I have an EVO X MR with phatom black paint. I just bought the car new a few months ago and I had the dealership apply the paint protector/sealant on it. Then to protect the paint I went and got the clear bra ($800) put on the entire front of the car at another shop called Lux auto lounge, here in Canada. I was told by Lux that there is a problem with contaminants in the paint protector process making the paint on my car have a gritty surface...they said the dealership didn't prepare the car properly prior to applying the paint protector.



I took the car back to the dealer and they looked it over telling me that they need to wet sand the entire car down ,etc, as the contaminants are in the paint itself (or so they say), and they are willing to restore everything back including applying a new clearbra afterwards. The guys at Lux tell me to not allow the dealership to wet sand and repaint the car, as the paint will never be as good as the original. They also told me at Lux that they were able to remove the grit with clay bar prior to applying the clearbra they installed.



Ok, here's my dilemna...

I'm worried I will lose my paint warranty on my car if I don't allow the dealership to redo the car, yet I don't want the car's paint to be replaced by if at all possible....I'm hearing the the repaint process won't be as good as the original. I have people telling me to let the dealer fix the problem the way they want to, and I have people telling me that if they screwed up with the paint sealant process then just think what they will do when sanding down and re-painting.



I also don't understand the clay bar process. Would clay bar remove the paint protector sealant that has been applied? Or can clay bar remove the contaminants from the paint through the paint sealant if the problem is actually in the paint and not in the paint protection process the dealer had applied?



I'm getting two different stories and I don't know which way to turn. I would appreciate any advice or feedback you can give to me.



Thanks,

Corinne
 
1st thing is read the Magnusson warranty act. That should make you feel a little bit better.



Secondly, common paint contamination on new cars is not a situation that requires wetsanding and repainting. As long as its your typical environmental and mild metallic contamination Lux did the right thing(assuming it was correct process) in using detailing clay to remove the bonded contamination. I have NEVER in my entire life heard of wetsanding and repainting a brand new car due to common environmental contamination. I would even go as far as to looking to detail your own car prior to having the protection film laid down.



Is the PPF on the car OK now? I am a bit lost as to where you are at concerning the PPF on the car in relation to the 2 places' claims.



Third, in regards to the dealership I request to see some documentation and the technical terminology to describe this contamination on the car and the relevance to the paint warranty. I would imagine with a process so intensive there should be a TSB. You could also call other dealerships and see what they would have to say about this. Despite being dealerships, remember they are not there to make cars look nice, they are there to make money. Period.



I drive an Evolution myself and while I'm not sure what the warranty situations are with dealers up north are, the warranty claims in the states are an absolute joke with Mitsu. I have seen brand new 3k mile cars get denied for safety items(steering wheel leather peeling away from the metal frame) denied because they were put in as "wear" items despite the rest of the car being immaculate.. Considering how awful the warranty situation at some US mitsu dealerships are I am a bit surprised on how they didnt actually void the warranty on the paint already since you took it another shop instead of having the dealership install the PPF - they could always say "sorry, denied" because they weren't in control of the installation and the materials used



Cliffs: Do not allow dealer to wetsand car due to common contamination. Assuming Lux does reputable quality work, stick with them but prep your own car.
 
I would let whomever use the clay on the paint first. This involves a clay lubricant and a bar of automotive clay. No abrasives whatsoever. Also this should not void any warrany on the factory paint job. Any detail or recon shop should be able to help with this. The purpose of the clay is to pull out any rail dust(airbourne contaminants) or dirt that resides within the paint. That is what causes the gritty feel.
 
Thanks for your feedback.



I had the paint sealant applied at the dealership. Clay bar was only used on the front of the car so Lux could apply the clearbra properly. But I do understand how Mitsu can try to skirt around things and look to blame another.



So now I will have a battle with Mitsu on what to do considering that they have decided that they are going to redo the entire car. I will probably wind-up paying the costs for claybaring the entire car, and then if something goes wrong with the paint in the future, Mitsu will just tell me that since I didn't do what they said, they cannot be responsible for my paint issues...and we know Mitsu has paint issues!
 
You should really just search the site here, and search youtube for Mike Phillips claybar video, and claybar the entire car yourself. Its simple.



I really think if they denied your warranty because you chose not to have them sand and repaint that they would have a hefty legal situation on their hands considering the amount of knowledge and backing that we all have concerning detailing clay and simple decontamination of automotive paint.



I am dying to see the write up on your potential warranty claim with this paint..
 
I told the dealership that Lux had said that they had done the claybar with success on the front end, so I just can't get my head around why they wouldn't think about this process first, and are going with the extreme fix of sanding, repainting, and reapplying a clear bra...just makes no sense to me. All I want is to have my beautiful car still under warranty.



:thx I'll look at the video. How long does it take to clay bar a car? What is the best brand of clay or will any do?
 
It depends on how badly contaminated the paint is as well as the strength of the bond to the paint. Generally moderate contamination only takes 30min to 1 hour.



You can find Meguiars brand clay kits, and Clay Magic kits at most auto parts stores, they come with the clay itself and some lubricant and some even have some cleaner wax in the kit. Riccardo poly clay is available in CN and is a nice choice as well. If you run out of clay lubricant you can use a mild soap and water mixture, just rinse well once you finish claying.



YouTube - How to Clay Bar



And again you will have to wax/seal the car again but it will last much longer and go on/ come off much easier with no contamination on the vehicle.



Documentation - I document everything for work - I call it CYA (cover your butt). The dealership's claims are absurd. If you searched all of autopia back to early 2000s I dont think you would find a situation like the dealer is trying to present to you.. do your research.
 
I'm going to speak with the manager at the dealership...Lux says that they would like to clay bar 1/2 the hood to show them the difference in that the paint was not prepared correctly for the sealant.



I don't know what the outcome will be, but I want the dealership to re-apply the sealant afterwards...I think that this will be the biggest fight since I plan to show the dealership that the contaminants can be removed by clay bar without needing the complex procedure that they say it needs...hopefully it will end with me still having my warranty for paint and for the paint sealant protection with the "tri-care" company, and without huge cost to me. Lux says they hope that the dealer won't say the contamination is due to it being in my possession, as then I will have to foot the bill for the clay bar and for the resealant. Car's barely 4 months old, and is garage parked and is presently in storage.



I hate this kind of dealership/warranty issues, when I know so little about this kind of thing....I will look over the site to see what's here.

Thanks for all the advice here,

Corinne
 
Some good advice in this thread....

Here's my 2 cents...In my experience dealing with dealerships, it's best that you cut your losses and not pursue any recourse with them. In their perfect world, they would rather not have the car back to be serviced without making any money on it. This will motivate them to get rid of the car as quickly as possible, which may result in you being unhappy.



You are better off performing the clay bar treatment yourself, or having one of us here do it for you and seal the paint (with a couple layers of 476S of 854 for example).



Here's what CAN happen with an application of the dealership paint sealant...

http://www.autopia.org/forum/pro-de...tailing-2008-mitsubishi-eclipse-36-hours.html



Most new cars come with contamination, and it's not something most dealerships attend to. Here's a new car prep I did a while back showing a lot of contamination:

http://www.autopia.org/forum/pro-de...ne-5-coats-opti-seal-cwp-mazdaspeed3-wet.html



All the best with your situation!
 
Maybe this has already been noted/suggested...but the dealer-applied sealant isn't anything special, it's the warranty that you paid for. Just forget about bringing the car back to the dealer, and they will forget about you. Let Lux (or Kaval or another Autopian) properly clean and seal the car for you. If for some reason you need to exercise the paint warranty later, I don't see how they can deny you, they've already told you it needs a repaint. Or you could call them and tell them you will live with it for now, but if it gets worse at some time in the future, you will bring it back.
 
Since starting this thread, I have decided to cut my losses with the dealership. I had decided to not let them touch it after I heard back from all of you guys on this site and then also two of the detailers here who have even seen my car.



Lux told me that all the car needed was a claybar.

The second detailer (who I also buy my tires from) said he wouldn't just claybar and would recommend Maguires #2 fine cut cleaner, then #9 swirl remover, then #26 hi-tech liquid wax to fix the problem.



Both of these detailers tell me not to let the dealer touch my car for reasons you also say in this post. IMO the dealer has already done enough damage...I just want to make sure that my paint warranty will be ok, as they have it in their 'computer' system at the dealership that they need to do the fix of wetsanding and even the amount of time it will be required to be with them.



What do you think of the second detailers recommendations of using Maguires? Lux tells me that they think that this Maguires process is also over the top. I have so many suggestions and so little knowledge of detailing.



I want my car to come out just as in the pics of the Eclipse...BTW, fantastic job!!!!! Do you ever come this way to Ottawa, or would I have to come to you?



Thank you all,

Corinne
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Maybe this has already been noted/suggested...but the dealer-applied sealant isn't anything special, it's the warranty that you paid for. Just forget about bringing the car back to the dealer, and they will forget about you. Let Lux (or Kaval or another Autopian) properly clean and seal the car for you. If for some reason you need to exercise the paint warranty later, I don't see how they can deny you, they've already told you it needs a repaint. Or you could call them and tell them you will live with it for now, but if it gets worse at some time in the future, you will bring it back.
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Everyone keeps telling me this same thing about the paint sealant, and that what I've really just purchased is a warranty...a very expensive warranty. What is it that the dealers use? It's not wax...you can see the additional coating on the surface of the car...looks like some kind of shellac.
 
sejodiren said:
Claybarring is so easy.....a caveman could do it!
Click to expand...



I don't think my dealership has the ability, or else they would have done it prior to putting on the paint sealant.:rolleyes:
 
May I say, there is no such thing as "paint sealant" that actually does anything but seperate you from your money. Dont let anyone sand your car. Your car needs to be polished by someone who can use a multi-step process to first remove the crap with a wool pad if needed. Repolish with a multi-step FOAM pad and seal by hand or machine if desired. This really is not a big deal. I usually charge 165.00 to do a car such as yours. Be well!
 
Multi-step buffing would be better than claying to remove the contaminants?



I'll either do it myself (if it's claying), or I'll get a detailer to do it if it's buffing.



What is the best and easiest final sealing product if I'm going to do it by hand?
 
coryl said:
Everyone keeps telling me this same thing about the paint sealant, and that what I've really just purchased is a warranty...a very expensive warranty. What is it that the dealers use? It's not wax...you can see the additional coating on the surface of the car...looks like some kind of shellac.
Click to expand...



It does? You can see it because they missed spots? I'm not quite understanding how you are able to see an additional coating on the car...there is really no product (well, there are a couple) that builds up that much.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
It does? You can see it because they missed spots? I'm not quite understanding how you are able to see an additional coating on the car...there is really no product (well, there are a couple) that builds up that much.
Click to expand...



Ok, since I'm female I'll describe it in the best way I know how in cosmetic terms...don't know if it will make sense but I'll try.

Take a fingernail that has been buffed and it's really glossy and shines (like the car did before the sealant), then add a coat or two of clear nail polish and then you have what it looks like (after they applied the sealant)...you can actually notice the build-up, pre and post sealant. You can also see the miniscule 'waves' of the product.
 
I consider it highly unlikely that any sealant has "built-up" on the car. More likely the car wasn't very clean when you saw it (by Autopian standards) and the washing and sealant application made it look a lot glossier. I'd bet the "waves" are poor application or removal (unremoved product). But you've had 2 pro detailers look at it...and apparently they weren't very impressed with the dealer's job because they suggested they remove it.



As I noted previously, there ARE a couple or 3 sealants that are professionally applied that ARE worth the money (referring to Opti-Coat and the like), but we don't know of any dealers that would actually put on a product like that, only really good detailers.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
I consider it highly unlikely that any sealant has "built-up" on the car. More likely the car wasn't very clean when you saw it (by Autopian standards) and the washing and sealant application made it look a lot glossier. I'd bet the "waves" are poor application or removal (unremoved product). But you've had 2 pro detailers look at it...and apparently they weren't very impressed with the dealer's job because they suggested they remove it.



As I noted previously, there ARE a couple or 3 sealants that are professionally applied that ARE worth the money (referring to Opti-Coat and the like), but we don't know of any dealers that would actually put on a product like that, only really good detailers.
Click to expand...



I'm not sure what it is. All I know is that the finish is rough, and wavy/orange peel, but high gloss...looked like coating. So the options are, claying, wetsanding, buffing, or Maguires three step process (fine cut #2, swirl remover #9 , liquid wax #26)...what do I do to make the surface smooth with high shine?



Yes, both detailers said there is a problem and they both feel the dealer will destroy the car, and both have different recommendations as well. I'm confused about what to do now.:think:
 
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