New to proper detailing and paint correction... Help!

A

av315

New member
Hi guys, new the forum and proper care but I'm no stranger to cleaning cars, been cleaning cars for longer than I can honestly remember. I've only recently researched proper paint care and correction techniques though. I've got a few new products and decided to give them a shot yesterday. I'm completely new to machine polishing so I'm safely working with a PC xp. My test car was my current daily driver, a 03 Volkswagen GTI. Long story short, after properly prepping the car I tried Meguiars new microfiber system, then yellow & orange LC pads combined with PG 1000 and finally 105 on a yellow pad. Simply put, the paint on my GTI is awful and the front looks like it has been repainted at some point and I'm not getting the correction I was hoping for. It's bringing back lots of depth and gloss but scratches are still everywhere! I've varied my techniques with the PC to no avail, tried multiple products and just can not get to a level of correction I'm happy with! A rotary and or wet-sanding kept running through my mind but I'd like to hear some professional opinions on how to deal with the terrible paint on most daily drivers out there. Any advice or constructive criticism would be greatly appreciated!

-Tony





Subject:

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Supplies:

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Try the newer Optimum Microfiber Polishing and Cutting Pads, which are made with a new, advanced laminating system that ensures the pads will not separate or delaminate.



Thanks to this feature, you can use these pads with either a rotary or a random orbital polisher. Every pad is made with low profile, reticulated; open cell foam backing that reduces heat and provides generous cushioning between the polisher and the paint. The foam provides excellent flexibility.



The independent, non-tufted vertical fibres work like the fingers on your hand. They flex or stiffen when necessary to reach the peaks and valleys found in wood, painted or other solid surfaces. This constant flexing and stiffening action produces uniform results over the entire surface, adding depth and brilliance of shine not found in other products.



These deep pile microfiber pads are reliable and the new advanced laminating system insures the pads will not separate or delaminate, their low profile, reticulated, open-cell foam backing that provides superior cooling. These pads will work with both random orbital and rotary machines.

Available in several sizes as a polishing and cutting pad, they are designed to work with their Hyper Compound Spray, Hyper Polish Spray and Poli-Seal AIO and will also work with other polishes to provide superior paint correction and finish LSP ready. These pads have a similar abrasive ability when compared to wool



Orbital Polisher- I’ve found superior results with all orbital buffers in both compounding and polishing. It cuts as well or better than the orange or yellow foam pads while leaving less marring that is inherent with these pads. For polishing I’ve found it will remove swirls left with a rotary buffer and a wool pad. Initial speed #2 to spread and evenly distribute polish on the pad, speed 4-5 using medium heavy pressure and then reduce to speed #3 using medium light pressure



Rotary Polisher - tested with the rotary buffer at 1200 RPM, and it produced amazing results with fast and easy polishing applications. The deep pile microfiber pads are thick and designed for long lasting durability. The soft, reticulated, open cell foam structure reduces heat, also produces less holograms.



Clean the pad using compressed air or a pad conditioning brush after each section. These are machine washable.



SurBuf are another alternative pad, which produces excellent results
 
I'll order some and give them a try. How similar are they to the meguiars maroon microfiber pad used with The correction compound? I haven't used anything other than D300 on this pad, would PG1000 or 105 cut better when combined with this pad.
 
You should take a class or ask for someone on this board to show you how to run the machines. I'm in Orange County, CA and there are guys all over the country who would show you. I know Barry does full on classes, for example.



Robert
 
WhyteWizard said:
You should take a class or ask for someone on this board to show you how to run the machines. I'm in Orange County, CA and there are guys all over the country who would show you. I know Barry does full on classes, for example.



Robert
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That's not a bad idea but I don't know of any detailers in South Bend that I'd trust. I've read for hours and watched quite a few videos on machine use and technique. I'm accustomed to power tools and have a hard time believing my poor results were the product of improper machine polishing... Tho I know I could be wrong. I'm working 2'x2 areas generally, how many passes should it take and after cleaning the pad and wiping the working surface how many times would it be acceptable to rework the area?
 
Maybe try the M105 on the black MF pad first. Speed 4-5 mild pressure. If your not seeing resullts moving 1" per second about 4passes step up to 105 on the red.

You may want to follow up with 205 on black MF if you use 205 on red. Don't mix pads with another polish on them while testing either.

VW paint can be very hard(have a Jetta)
 
Thanks for the input, 10-4 on the usage of multiple polishes with the same pad, staying away from that. So far this morning I've done a few new test sections on the hood. Wet sanded 1/3 and then hit it with PG 1000 and finished with 205. Came out much better than anything else I tried yesterday. I'm working on a second area that I wet sanded and finishing it out with D300 on its microfiber counterpart. Third area is for 105 on a microfiber pad, no wet sanding.
 
After two days of less than productive buffing I lost my patience. I pulled in my green Audi A6 that's being repainted next week due to front end damage determined to find a method that would work. I prepped it and then I found such a method, the aggressive one. D300 on its MF pad, speed 6, sllooowww passes and all the pressure I could apply without stopping the rotation. Slowly but surely the swirls, etching and scratches began to fade away. Encouraged by my newfound success I kept working and working the hood, often coming back and reworking an area that didn't look as good as the surrounding areas. It's still less than perfect but there was a large improvement and I didn't want to reach the point where it was becoming unsafe. Anyway, I know that my first two attempts at paint correction were difficult ones but I'd really like to find a few easier correction methods for moderate to severe imperfections. Is a rotary the way to go? Or perhaps a more aggressive compound? I have a few test panels I can practice on before I go crazy and destroy clear coat so if anyone can point me in the right direction, that would be great. I'll be out practicing until then...
 
Ok I am going to help you out.



First, speed 6 with the MF pads will kill your pads. Slow down to speed 5, better yet, get a Griots PC for correction work. Use the XP for polishing or wax application.



VW and Audi paint is very hard. Many people make the mistake of watching the results on forums done by real pros and because they make it look easy, people just assume that they can do it as well. Unfortunately, it isn't that easy.



To cut your VW paint, order the black wool pads. 3D has them in stock. Micro Surface makes them. Even the Purple Foam wool will cut better that MD or foam pads.



Don't give up. How do you think we create those finishes? By putting the many hours it takes. You don't need a rotary. You just need to learn how to paint correct. It will take a lifetime to perfect, just like poker. Where is south bend?
 
Thomas--how do you think an orange B&S pad will do on speed 6 with a GG RO to correct light linear marring on VW paint using HD Speed? The paint is in good shape--always been hand washed with proper technique and always been protected with sealant.
 
South Bend, IN where Notre Dame is located. We're you referring to a griots da? And what makes it better than the PC for correction work? Thanks
 
Lot more potent and smoother. Or wait for the new 3D DA



av315 said:
South Bend, IN where Notre Dame is located. We're you referring to a griots da? And what makes it better than the PC for correction work? Thanks
Click to expand...
 
Could work, (I'd need to see the damage) if not, try HD Polish First.



pwaug said:
Thomas--how do you think an orange B&S pad will do on speed 6 with a GG RO to correct light linear marring on VW paint using HD Speed? The paint is in good shape--always been hand washed with proper technique and always been protected with sealant.
Click to expand...
 
av315- I'm pretty familiar with the hard VW/Audi clear.



The Meguiar's MF cutting pads work fine on Audi clear when used via Griot's RO. They work fine via PC *BUT* you have to use the tiny little ones (3") to get effective (or at least efficient) correction with the less powerful machine.



IMO the MF cutting disks are safer than aggressive foam pads (less heat for one thing) and they usually leave a nicer finish which means less overall abrasion.



M105 works fine, so does Uno. IMO using less potent products is a waste of time and effort and even those products that "work fine" might need numerous applications to do the job. By "numerous" I don't mean just three tries either.



If you decide to save time by wetsanding, I sure hope you know what you're doing. I'm not opposed to it, but IMO most people do more damage than they expect to, often causing problems that might not show up for a while. But the judicious use of 3-4K wetsanding (with *GOOD* paper/disks) can be *safer* than aggressive compounding *if* you go about it right (but it's a big "if" there...that's the tricky part ;) ).



Oh, and while the "two foot square" work area is pretty common, I myself find that to be *MUCH* too big when doing serious correction. Especially with products that can dry out/flash quickly. I like keeping my area of operation quite small...things go better and it's easier for me to keep track of what's happening. When somebody's doing a 2x2 area with a 6.5" pad, I'm never surprised when things aren't going well...more like, I'd be astounded if they *did* go well, at least on hard clear.
 
Excellent advise as always. I agree, the MF pads are superior to foam when cutting, just like wool to MF pads.



Accumulator said:
av315- I'm pretty familiar with the hard VW/Audi clear.



The Meguiar's MF cutting pads work fine on Audi clear when used via Griot's RO. They work fine via PC *BUT* you have to use the tiny little ones (3") to get effective (or at least efficient) correction with the less powerful machine.



IMO the MF cutting disks are safer than aggressive foam pads (less heat for one thing) and they usually leave a nicer finish which means less overall abrasion.



M105 works fine, so does Uno. IMO using less potent products is a waste of time and effort and even those products that "work fine" might need numerous applications to do the job. By "numerous" I don't mean just three tries either.



If you decide to save time by wetsanding, I sure hope you know what you're doing. I'm not opposed to it, but IMO most people do more damage than they expect to, often causing problems that might not show up for a while. But the judicious use of 3-4K wetsanding (with *GOOD* paper/disks) can be *safer* than aggressive compounding *if* you go about it right (but it's a big "if" there...that's the tricky part ;) ).



Oh, and while the "two foot square" work area is pretty common, I myself find that to be *MUCH* too big when doing serious correction. Especially with products that can dry out/flash quickly. I like keeping my area of operation quite small...things go better and it's easier for me to keep track of what's happening. When somebody's doing a 2x2 area with a 6.5" pad, I'm never surprised when things aren't going well...more like, I'd be astounded if they *did* go well, at least on hard clear.
Click to expand...
 
Accumulator said:
av315- I'm pretty familiar with the hard VW/Audi clear.



The Meguiar's MF cutting pads work fine on Audi clear when used via Griot's RO. They work fine via PC *BUT* you have to use the tiny little ones (3") to get effective (or at least efficient) correction with the less powerful machine.



IMO the MF cutting disks are safer than aggressive foam pads (less heat for one thing) and they usually leave a nicer finish which means less overall abrasion.



M105 works fine, so does Uno. IMO using less potent products is a waste of time and effort and even those products that "work fine" might need numerous applications to do the job. By "numerous" I don't mean just three tries either.



If you decide to save time by wetsanding, I sure hope you know what you're doing. I'm not opposed to it, but IMO most people do more damage than they expect to, often causing problems that might not show up for a while. But the judicious use of 3-4K wetsanding (with *GOOD* paper/disks) can be *safer* than aggressive compounding *if* you go about it right (but it's a big "if" there...that's the tricky part ;) ).



Oh, and while the "two foot square" work area is pretty common, I myself find that to be *MUCH* too big when doing serious correction. Especially with products that can dry out/flash quickly. I like keeping my area of operation quite small...things go better and it's easier for me to keep track of what's happening. When somebody's doing a 2x2 area with a 6.5" pad, I'm never surprised when things aren't going well...more like, I'd be astounded if they *did* go well, at least on hard clear.
Click to expand...





Thank you! I think I'll pull the trigger and order a Griots RO seeing as I have quite a few Audis and Vdubs around. I found that the MF pads worked the best for me, and tho I didn't state it I also found that a 2'x2 section was too big for serious correction. I started working on areas almost half that size. As for the wet sanding I'm not a pro by any means but I've done a bit of it side by side with a professional restoration shop owner. I worked lightly with 3000 on a block. Are there any products that will cut faster than UNO or 105? Or should I pump the brakes and take my time? Thanks again for the input.
 
Don't try to rush - UNO/105 is as fast as you can get. Paint Correction is not about how fast you can do it. What you CAN do is use wool on your Griot PC. That will speed things up leveling.
 
av315 said:
... I worked lightly with 3000 on a block..
Click to expand...

Ah, OK, that sounds good.



... Are there any products that will cut faster than UNO or 105? Or should I pump the brakes and take my time? Thanks again for the input.
Click to expand...



-AND-



thomasdekany said:
Don't try to rush - UNO/105 is as fast as you can get...
Click to expand...



Right. I hardly *ever* resort to more aggressive measures (rocks-in-a-bottle type compounds, rotary polisher...) any more. Between the (very gentle, gotta always repeat that ;) ) wetsanding and the Uno/M105, trying to speed things up any more would almost certainly be ill-advised. It's in that "if you have to ask, you shouldn't try it" category.
 
Looking into a more powerful DA for difficult correction and simply to have a backup machine. For those of you that have used it, is the Flex 3401 worth the extra money over the Griots?
 
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