New Rotary User Help

D

DarkThrottle

Member
Ok so I did it and pulled the trigger on a PE14, LC Hybrid Pads and LC 5in backing plate. Now I’m very comfortable using power tools. My current Detailing work horse is my 3401. I have no real fears with using a rotary polisher what I would like to know is if you could go back to being a new guy on a new machine what are somethings do you wish you knew early?

Since I know that I’ll be running a PE-14 what speeds are you guys running these machines at for Compounding, Polishing, Finishing, Jeweling...?

I run my 3401 high as speed 6 depending on the level of cut I’m looking for but it’s a dual action..Until I learn a good arm speed I’m not willing to run the PE that high as I don’t want to get into developing holograms. Now depending on what it is I do understand sometimes I have no option but to do a hologram inducing compound and then follow with finishing polish to clean that up but at some point before the winter I plan on polishing my mega cab 2500 ram and ceramic coating...I won’t need to compound as its a new truck but I will be trying to polish the light light scratch’s and pull more gloss out the paint and try to level some of the orange peel without going wetsanding route...It’s a daily driver not a show truck I’ll have to live with some of the peel..but I would like to do it all using the rotary far as polishing. and before anyone says it yes I have practice panels

And for pads I’m interested in the Force Hybrid and HDO line from LC can I use those both on the PE14 and my 3401 of course getting more cut on the rotary from either option ?




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I believe the LC Hybrid pads are designed for forced-rotation DA polishers like your 3401, not for rotary polishing. I normally use a LC purple foamed wool pad for heavy correcting on hard clear coat (terrific with Meguiar`s 105) or the 7.5" CCS curved edge pads. On a Toyota with soft clear coat, an orange CCS pad with Meguiar`s 205 is a terrific combination but tends to leave a buffer trail, requiring a follow-up with a DA polisher. I`ve also been experimenting with a 3M 8" double-sided soft foam pad for final polishing with the rotary, but nothing to report yet. Also, I tend to use slower speeds when using a rotary, rarely exceeding 1,500 RPM.
 
I`ve never touched a rotary but I`m pretty proficient with attacking whatever with a DA. My question is, how difficult is it to finish with a rotary on your average black car with your average finishing polish hologram free with today`s pads & polishes?

The new Milwaukee 18v cordless rotary looks very cool.

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Joel_MD said:
I believe the LC Hybrid pads are designed for forced-rotation DA polishers like your 3401, not for rotary polishing. I normally use a LC purple foamed wool pad for heavy correcting on hard clear coat (terrific with Meguiar`s 105) or the 7.5" CCS curved edge pads. On a Toyota with soft clear coat, an orange CCS pad with Meguiar`s 205 is a terrific combination but tends to leave a buffer trail, requiring a follow-up with a DA polisher. I`ve also been experimenting with a 3M 8" double-sided soft foam pad for final polishing with the rotary, but nothing to report yet. Also, I tend to use slower speeds when using a rotary, rarely exceeding 1,500 RPM.
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Yeah I saw the Force hybrids were for Forced Rotation polishers but i was watching a video Mike Phillips did with LC MFG and he stated in the video that it’s safe to use with a rotary as a rotary is a forced rotation machine. just to expect more cut from the rotary over a forced rotation da...

Do you ever finish down with the rotary? I’ve seen a lot of videos of people finishing down with a rotary and I would love to be able to have that skill set in my tool chest. From my understanding you can get the best finish/jeweling from using a rotary machine..


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Swanicyouth said:
I`ve never touched a rotary but I`m pretty proficient with attacking whatever with a DA. My question is, how difficult is it to finish with a rotary on your average black car with your average finishing polish hologram free with today`s pads & polishes?

The new Milwaukee 18v cordless rotary looks very cool.

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From my research it seems as if one would need to use a super soft finishing pad either a Black or Gold jeweling pad with light pressure, larger sweeping motions, lower machine speeds and faster arm movement... as with a rotary the higher the speed and more aggressive the compound/polish/pad and user applied pressure the more aggressive the cut Which creates the holograms or buffer trails.

I’ve been looking for something that gives a direct explanation to what causes buffer trails


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DarkThrottle said:
Do you ever finish down with the rotary? I’ve seen a lot of videos of people finishing down with a rotary and I would love to be able to have that skill set in my tool chest. From my understanding you can get the best finish/jeweling from using a rotary machine..
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I`ve been experimenting with the 3M 8" double-sided Ultrafine foam pad (light blue) with products such as Prima Amigo or Menzerna FF. I can get a good finish on the hard clear of my BMW. My wife`s Avalon has a very soft clear and even a super mild combination like that tends to leave barely discernible buffer marks/holograms with the rotary. I can use either of those polishes on a white pad with my PC7474 and it leaves a wonderful finish. Those soft clears can be frustrating.
 
Joel_MD said:
I`ve been experimenting with the 3M 8" double-sided Ultrafine foam pad (light blue) with products such as Prima Amigo or Menzerna FF. I can get a good finish on the hard clear of my BMW. My wife`s Avalon has a very soft clear and even a super mild combination like that tends to leave barely discernible buffer marks/holograms with the rotary. I can use either of those polishes on a white pad with my PC7474 and it leaves a wonderful finish. Those soft clears can be frustrating.
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hmm which Rotary are you using. I saw a video that suggested slighty lifting on the polisher to remove pressure for trying to finish down those really soft finicky paints. eventually once my pockets recover from the PE14 purchase Im going to get a mark 3 rupes 15 for finishing work exclusively
 
DarkThrottle said:
hmm which Rotary are you using. I saw a video that suggested slighty lifting on the polisher to remove pressure for trying to finish down those really soft finicky paints. eventually once my pockets recover from the PE14 purchase Im going to get a mark 3 rupes 15 for finishing work exclusively
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I`m using a Makita 9227C that I`ve owned for about 10 years. I`m not a pro and my technique may be lacking.
 
Holograms: I`ve run a rotary quite a bit, and could finish out fine on single stage back in the day. I *cannot* reliably finish out hologram-free on b/c and finally just quit trying.

A while ago, a well-regarded Autopian Pro did our Yukon XLD (long story why..). Spent days on it and he assured me it was hologram-free. It wasn`t, although it took a *really meticulous* examination to find them. Took me forever to sort that out, and I needed my wife`s help as it simply took two people to spot those things under just the right conditions.

A well-known, uhm...Detailing Industry Personality... who will remain nameless, admitted to me that he can`t always finish out hologram-free, though you`d sure never think that based on his (well-deserved) reputation that`s based on *decades* of great work via rotary. When *he* admitted that, it was enough for me; I decided it wasn`t just a shortcoming unique to me.

IT`S NOT THAT EASY. And it`s not just about harsh compounds or black basecoats or finicky paints either. Actually, IMO black can seem easy since you can more readily see the issues; try sorting out really light holograms on silver or light blue metallic and you`ll know what I mean. (FWIW, metallic black can drive me nuts too depending on the panel contours and how they catch the light.)

Gee, I sound awful..."sour grapes" or defeatist or [whatever] :o

Oh, since I`m being Mr. Positive anyhow... I sure wouldn`t try to level factory orangepeel these days, there`s just not that much clear to work with. Repaints are a different matter, a case-by-case kind of thing.

Heh heh, I suspect DarkThrottle isn`t finding any of my comments helpful, so with that I might oughta butt out ;)
 
Accumulator said:
Holograms: I`ve run a rotary quite a bit, and could finish out fine on single stage back in the day. I *cannot* reliably finish out hologram-free on b/c and finally just quit trying.

A while ago, a well-regarded Autopian Pro did our Yukon XLD (long story why..). Spent days on it and he assured me it was hologram-free. It wasn`t, although it took a *really meticulous* examination to find them. Took me forever to sort that out, and I needed my wife`s help as it simply took two people to spot those things under just the right conditions.

A well-known, uhm...Detailing Industry Personality... who will remain nameless, admitted to me that he can`t always finish out hologram-free, though you`d sure never think that based on his (well-deserved) reputation that`s based on *decades* of great work via rotary. When *he* admitted that, it was enough for me; I decided it wasn`t just a shortcoming unique to me.

IT`S NOT THAT EASY. And it`s not just about harsh compounds or black basecoats or finicky paints either. Actually, IMO black can seem easy since you can more readily see the issues; try sorting out really light holograms on silver or light blue metallic and you`ll know what I mean. (FWIW, metallic black can drive me nuts too depending on the panel contours and how they catch the light.)

Gee, I sound awful..."sour grapes" or defeatist or [whatever] :o

Oh, since I`m being Mr. Positive anyhow... I sure wouldn`t try to level factory orangepeel these days, there`s just not that much clear to work with. Repaints are a different matter, a case-by-case kind of thing.

Heh heh, I suspect DarkThrottle isn`t finding any of my comments helpful, so with that I might oughta butt out ;)
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Nope I actually enjoy your honest comments it gives me more to think about I guess I will be finishing w my 3401 more than I expected lol I guess I’ll be doing most cutting w my rotary...well I guess I’m going to have to live with some of this orange peel in that matter wish clear coats were thicker these days this is why any paint work I have done I always request the thickest clear coat possible I tell them i detail and would rather have as much cushion for polishing down the line as possible so they make it happen for me..I’m tempted to get this trucks clear coat resprayed


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DarkThrottle- Hey, thanks, I appreciate that.

FWIW, I`d be more about finding something to do the Finish Polishing better than the Flex 3401. I *like* the Flex, more than many here do, but *every single time* I`ve followed it with a non-forced-rotation RO/DA I`ve noticed an improvement. Enough of one that I`d never finish out via Flex 3401, but that`s easy for me to say with a silly number of RO/DAs to choose from :o

Not all doom-and-gloom though- the Flex 3401 is a good unit for knocking down holograms and leaving things ready to finish out. So if you do the harshest cutting via rotary you can save time (if not clearcoat) by using them in concert that way.

Oh, and I do have a Rotary Pad suggestion after all! I always found the Meguiar`s Burgundy Foam Cutting Pads to do good aggressive work. I kinda preferred the older generation, but the newer ones did work OK for me so don`t write it off. If nothing else, they`re usually available OTC at autobody/paint supply places.

And I do sympathize about the orangepeel. It`s one thing for my cheaper vehicles to have it, but my good Audi (Woo-hoo, fancy robotic paint application system!) looks simply *awful* in that regard..but I`m not gonna thin that clear for anything if I can help it.
 
Ah ok... to be 100% honest ive always felt I could finish better but ive been getting such good results from all these years w my 3401 that ive never felt the need to add tools. Its the heavy correction jobs that forced my hand on the rotary.. I refuse to put 25 hours into a 450.00 detail EVER AGAIN. Im also doing a full detail for practice w the machine and because it needs it on my moms 2014 Camry this thing is BEAT. but im sure w my new machine I can knock it out with ease.

Now on to Orbitals I cant really decide on a finishing polisher for that I really like the Rupes LHR15 but I am a Flex nut when it comes to my fav brand of polishers. I know eventually I want to add a ibrid nano for a and b pillars but cant really decide on a machine for that purpose or I would have long since picked one up
 
Hard enough that I own one and dont use it.

If I was a pro I would spend time to get good at it. I can knock out serious maring fast but still need to go back and clean up witha Rupes. So i just 2 step it with a rupes and control the cut with pads, product and pressure. I spend a little more time but No worries of burn through that way.

I have seen guys finish out perfectly with a rotary but I dont have those skills.

Swanicyouth said:
I`ve never touched a rotary but I`m pretty proficient with attacking whatever with a DA. My question is, how difficult is it to finish with a rotary on your average black car with your average finishing polish hologram free with today`s pads & polishes?

The new Milwaukee 18v cordless rotary looks very cool.

Sent from my KFSUWI using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
 
Here is the facts short and sweet.

The rotary takes practice to master. I have been using them for over 25 years or more.

I pretty much exclusively cut with a rotary. It’s fast and effective. The newer compounds allow you to finish really well with a rotary and leave only minimal work for a fine polish.

I will admit that I can finish really really good with a rotary but every now and then, I get a paint system that just doesn’t allow it.

I suggest cutting with a rotary on the slowest speed and using caution. Finish with a DA. Once you gone your technique, you can start attempting finishing with the rotary.
 
Try to find a comfortable cutting face. Because the machine cannot be perfectly flat or it’s a beast the tilt I use is very slight maybe 10 degrees. Also don’t use 7 inch pads I think you have that covered. I also use soft backing plate. I’m usually 1200-1700 for cutting. I have a makita.

I also use the extension with 2 inch pad of wool for post spot correction after to sanding.

I don’t think you need to be a Jedi to use one But you also cannot fall asleep behind the wheel like when using a DA and doing a cross hatch for hours.
 
Great thread. I tried starting a rotary thread 6 months or so ago without much success. I bought the new Rupes rotary and have not used it much at all unfortunately. I want to get the Rupes rotary pads and their polishes and give them a try. Rupes rotary polishes are supposed to have more oils to cut down on buffer trails and haze. I have tried Rupes wool pads on both the rotary and the 15 and have had great results. I bought the rotary for heavy correction and jeweling, I just haven’t had much time to attempt either (also for headlight correction).
 
Just an FYI, at a recent Roadshow I used the Rupes MK3 15mm, which I was in the market to buy, back to back with The Flex XFE and Griot`s (I have a Boss 21 already). I actually found I liked the other 2 better, and with the crazy Warranty the Boss is hard to beat, plus it is cheaper than the Rupes. In the end I went with the Flex XFE. I really liked the feel of the machine over the Rupes. Good luck
 
considering I own 2 flex machines currently (3401 and PE14) I am highly interested in the XFE7-15 but I cant find any solid reviews or use videos of it. And I keep reading about the head getting hot and with the proper technique for that style polisher my hand would be directly where that heat is coming from. How is the heat around the head where you hold it. How is it on contours? Does it stall easy I would prefer the flex as it has more power and higher OPM rate than any of the rupes offerings
 
Back when people were using rotaries for finishing, all the products filled really well. I`m just a hobbyist, and while I could finish it down well with a rotary, it is just way faster with a DA. As thin as paint is and as good as compounds are, I can`t find a single reason to drag out my rotary. Add in the fact that most new cars are under 100 microns, a rotary will obliterate that with a modern compound.
 
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