Never heard this one before

P

ptaylor_9849

New member
At the request of a fellow Autopian, I contacted Hi-Temp to see if their products could help me get my black corvette swirl free. The rep told me that they did not have anything for my application but I should try 3M 5996. He told me that since GM clearcoat is so hard that I should use a product that is solvent based NOT abrasive/particle based. He said that the solvent would help soften the clearcoat instead of trying to abrade it away with particles.

Before I drop another fifty bucks please share your thoughts.



Thanks,



Patrick
 
Trying to follow this logic...softening will melt the swirls back together? Or just make it easier to abrade them away? Since modern clearcoat is catalyzed, I would imagine that softening would cause permanent damage to the clear.



I'm not trying to refute this approach, just trying to understand it.
 
I'm not sure exactly how this approach is supposed to work. It sounded interesting when he told me but I wanted to run it by you guys first. Please keep the responses coming as I really appreciate the input.



Patrick
 
What year is your vette? I've literally worked on 12 black c5/c6 vettes in the last two months, *all* with HTEC or HTHC, and all have come out very well. Here is one I did yesterday, HTHC/orange @ 1800, 106FF/white @ 1300.



GTA In Detail



There has been a lot of talk about solvents softening clear to help aid swirl removal lately. I honestly can't profess to understand most of it, however I can say that in my experience the two HT levelers are my go to compounds for black vettes.
 
I was given the same information by the Hi-Temp people, who are very helpful BTW. It makes perfect sense to me since some powerful solvents can completely remove automotive paint. I do not see why HTHC or HTEC could not remove your swirls. Are you using an orbital or rotary? They told me HTHC and HTEC need the heat of a rotary to work effectively. HTLC and HTmC can work well via orbital because of the presence of solvents in them.
 
Apparently menzerna still thinks that abrasive particles are the way to get the swirls out of ceramiclears; everyone of their ceramiclear polishes use more and sharper abrasives to get the job done.
 
Once the paint dries, using solvent to soften the paint up again is risky and logically stupid ! it will not reblend like fresh paint rather it might just soften it up, but paint binding will also suffer. I advise caution if they do offer such a product, that is like pouring laquer thinner over a water based paint.
 
brwill2005 and I have kicked around the Hi-Temp "solvents softening paint" idea before. I just don't see it happening and, as noted, plenty of *very* hard paints can be worked fine with conventional, abrasive-based approaches.



I hate to be critical of good, helpful people who make great products (and the folks at Hi-Temp definitely qualify on all counts), but their ideas about softening paint with a polish's solvents simply sound wacky to me. It's sure not anything that I, or anyone of my acquaintance, has ever observed.



And I wonder if H-T's statements that EC and HC need the rotary are a case of a manufacturer erring on the side of caution, perhaps to avoid liability in case an outside-the-box application goes awry. These products work fine by non-rotary methods, simple as that.
 
I’m sorry. That just sounds ridiculous.



Some solvents may soften up some paints, but products have to work with old paints that may (or may not, I don’t believe it) soften and new paints that are catalyzed and crosslinked. Any solvent that would be strong enough to soften a modern 2k urethane on an ‘05 Vette is going make an old lacquer or enamel fall off the car.



Solvents are in products as carriers for the various oils and abrasives and whatever.



The tougher the paint is the more you need abrasives to remove layers of it and eliminate scratches. They just need to be the right size and shape and suspended in appropriate supporting chemicals.



Besides, 3M 5996 does contain abrasives. The label and MSDS both say it contains Aluminum Oxide, which is also the “sand� in their sandpaper.



I believe that Hi-Temp has fine products and that their people are genuinely trying to do what’s best for the customer but, as with many other “official� explanations of things in this industry, this line of reasoning just doesn’t make any sense.





PC.
 
To answer your question I have a PC. I was able to do major correction to the finish with my PC and Presta Ultra Cutting Creme Light. However, it hazed so badly that I'm still trying to restore the gloss fully after a few months of follow up with 106FF. Someone previously had the idea of an intermediate polish because maybe the 106FF just isn't strong enough to thoroughly remove the compounding haze left by the Presta. Then there's the whole "Should I buy a rotary" question. What's frustrating is that it's very expensive to PLAY with products when you don't do this for a living. Then there's the other issue where the Presta works fine on my Toyota but hazes unbelievably on the vette.

I even brought my vette to a fellow autopian professional who used a rotary and Optimum Compound and even that didn't work completely. Unfortunately, he ran out of his favorite corvette product which is Optimum Hyper Compound just prior to my visit. There seems to be too many options Rotary, PC, solvent based, abrasive based, Menzerna, Optimum, Hi-Temp, Clearkote. Maybe at this point I should select a product line and go through the steps within that system instead of jumping around from one manufacturer to another. However, I still have one burning question before I do anything. Should I buy a rotary or has anyone here ever done a vette completely using only a PC?



Patrick
 
I am not sure why the Hi-Temp people would be making this up. I am sure the tech reps got their information from the people who developed the products (chemists). The LC and MC clearly have a petro solvent smell and the HC and EC do not. What other purpose would there be for a petro solvent in a paint cleaning/polishing product? As for the HC and EC not being effective with an orbital; I was skeptical about this too. They (Hi-Temp) stated that if applied via orbital the HC and EC would just be hiding imperfections with the oils rather than removing them, and that the abrasives in these products need heat to work properly. I thought about it, and could remember situations where I thought I polished out swirls and such with HC or EC, only to see them re-appear after washing. So, there must be some merit to this statement.
 
brwill2005- The H-T EC and HC *do* affect mechanical/abrasive correction by PC and Cyclo..they don't just hide stuff. I've taken out scratches that you couldn't hide without a paintgun ;) and then cleaned the surface for the application of sealants...the marring was truly removed, simple as that.



heh heh, I don't mean for this to sound like an :argue any more than I did the last time we discussed it!



I'm just glad that the results I get from H-T products are so good...I don't worry about the way their reps explain stuff. I've had countless manufacturer's reps, in countless fields, give me incorrect info..happened so often that it doesn't even surprise me any more.
 
Accumulator said:
brwill2005- The H-T EC and HC *do* affect mechanical/abrasive correction by PC and Cyclo..they don't just hide stuff.
Click to expand...



yep I have also used HTEC to REMOVE damage with a PC:spot
 
Well, fwiw, I have Medium Cut and Soft Cut and both pale in comparison to EC and HC. The cut:finish ratio on the MC and SC is average or below at best. SC especially can hardly be considered a finishing polish; in fact I would say HTHC with much, much more cut, finishes better than SC on most paints. All I need to do is look at how much I use. I've ordered from TOL 3 times for HT products, the first was 4x 32oz of EC, HC, MC, and SC (one each), I still have almost full MC and SC, since then I have ordered 1 gallon each of EC and HC, and then 3 more gallons of HC.
 
Well, to each is own. I think HTLC is an excellent finishing polish; it is my go to polish on most vehicles via Cyclo. I also really like HC and EC, but for major defects via rotary. I always follow HC or EC application with SC.
 
Maybe it's like this: the compound does 97% of the work - enough where most folks would good nuff and seal it. However, adding a second and maybe a third step would add a liitle more gloss to the paint. All subjective of course. Me? I'm not into multi-step details!
 
brwill2005- Yeah, IMO the "whatever works for you" approach is best.



And I sure agree about the H-T LC by Cyclo. While I haven't used it since I got on my 3M PI-III MG kick, we went through literally *gallons* of it by Cyclo back when I had the dealership.



It occurs to me that with the EC/HC, I always follow up with milder products, so any light hazing/micromarring/etc. that's *worse* with non-rotary approaches might get removed without my having really noticed it. If they were referrng to micromarring being hidden as opposed to removed then that might explain things :nixweiss
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top