Need help w setup of test of zaino vs klasse

[imported_zenhog]

I'm in the middle of doing my dark navy car (2001 sebring) and want to do a test of p21s cleanser + zaino vs no cleanser + klasse. Unfortunately I don't have the zaino, just ordered it today and depending on how fast they get it to me it might be mid-week before I can apply it.



This is my daily driver so it's going to be used for about 200 miles before the zaino can go on.



I want to compare it on my front end, esp my hood.



I've finished the paint prep work on the test area and have it almost scratch and swirl free, at least as good as it's gonna get. I used Menzerna Intensive Polish followed by Menzerna Final Polish.



On one side I then went with Klasse AIO and 2 coats of Klasse SG and will top it with p21s Carnauba.



On the other side I'm going to use p21s Paintwork Cleanser followed with 2 coats of zaino. Not sure if I should top the zaino with carnauba (opinions?)



I don't want to do anything that will cause me to need to wash the car since that will blow the test on the half that will be finished first.



So here's my options:



1. Finish the first half by applying the carnauba and leave the other side. When the zaino comes in use a QD or maybe poorboy's SAW if it gets here in time, then finish that side with the cleanser and zaino, etc.



I'm nervious about this option since I have that great paint prep running face first into the road for 200 miles with no protection (on the test side waiting for the zaino).



or



2. Carnauba both sides and when the zaino comes in remove the carnauba on the zaino side so I can finish it by applying the cleanser and zaino.



I like the protection idea for the days I'm waiting for the zaino to arrive but how will I get a half a hood's carnauba off it without messing up the wax on the other test side of the hood?



or



3. Don't put carnauba on either side, and when the zaino comes in QD the hood, finish the zaino side and then carnauba the whole thing.



So in a nutshell:



1. The first answer I need is do I need to worry about protecting that unfinished side for the next few days?



2. If I do and I put on the carnauba to get by, how will I remove it from only half the hood without influencing the test? I don't want to do any more polishing on that side to remove the wax because that will affect how that side looks (more polish work) in the test.



3. Should I put carnauba on top of the zaino for the test? I'm not zaino-savvy so I don't know if it's something I'll want to do on this car if I switch to zaino.



Your comments and thoughts are appreciated.

 

[iceman]

Learn from my tragic experience the past few days. I used SEC and asked Sal whether I should Z7 or Dawn wash before Z2/Z5. He said Z7 was fine but I when I tried Z5/ZFX, I had horrible streaking, the Z5/ZFX didn't seem to dry well, and had trouble buffing off residue which I never had before when I used Zaino. Afterwards, the finish still felt horrible with gritty residue and needed to Z6 to get it off. Afterwards, it still did not feel slick so I threw water on it and there was no beading like before. Therefore, I think the Z7 was insufficient to remove all the oils of SEC and the Zaino didn't bond.

 

[shep01]

the aio is a guarantee of a clean surface and an acrylic base - over which you can use anything once it is dry - zaino, sg, pupp - have a party. that is the beauty of an acrylic - the polymers will adhere to it just like it was the plastic lights, grillwork, etc. -

 

[imported_zenhog]

Zaino over AIO? Hmm... were getting into unfamiliar territory now. I didn't know that was something that could be done nor was desirable.



Which zaino product do you refer to for topping AIO?

 

[shep01]

i have applied aiox2 and waited to the next weekend - then washed with Z7, applied z-6 and did 2 coats of Z2 - it went on and came off exactly as it is prescribed to - and with good results -



i also did 2 coats of Z-2 over a car with SG on ity - same experience



acrylics contain no polymers - the klasse is like poutting a thin plastic coating on the car and you know how the zaino works on plastics!



i finally tried PUPP over the aiox2;sgx2 and for me that was nirvana on my white car - it lit it up - far better than the zaino did - the zaino is sterile - it protects and shines but doesn't add depth or liquidity



the platinum (which is now even easier to apply - they changed the mixing by buying all new eqipment so it is thinner) is by far the easiest and best topper for a daily driver and works great over aio by itself or SG



try the Z2 over aio - you'll see - it works with no issue as long as the aio is left to dry and the solvents to evaporate - needs 4-8 hours imo in 85 degree ambient temps - faster in the sun but then you have a hot surface so you may as well garage it overnight or do what i do and wait until the next weekend

 

[chris0626]

I'm in the middle of doing my dark navy car (2001 sebring) and want to do a test of p21s cleanser + zaino vs no cleanser + klasse.

This is my daily driver so it's going to be used for about 200 miles before the zaino can go on.

If you really want this to be a valid test, I think you need to apply them at the same time (next weekend?) so you don't wind up wondering if maybe your results are a function of different applications.

I've finished the paint prep work on the test area and have it almost scratch and swirl free, at least as good as it's gonna get.

Congratulations. I saw your other thread, about deciding to go back down to the base and deal with your scratches/swirls. Sounds like you had good results. :up

On the other side I'm going to use p21s Paintwork Cleanser followed with 2 coats of zaino.

Craig, have you looked at this thread on Zaino prep? Sounds like you need to be sure to cleanoff that P21s very well before going to Zaino.

Not sure if I should top the zaino with carnauba (opinions?)

I think everybody should try it once. I did, on the white car, and it just confirmed that Zaino alone is the perfect look for her. But it's all subjective, depending on color, personal preference, etc. But, again, look at the Deanski thread (cited above), 'cause I think it also addresses possible adverse effects of "waxes" on Zaino.

1. Finish the first half by applying the carnauba and leave the other side. When the zaino comes in use a QD or maybe poorboy's SAW if it gets here in time, then finish that side with the cleanser and zaino, etc.

Just remember that you'll pick up little particulate matter over the course of the week. So that could end up reducing the smoothness/slickness of the Z.



Sounds like you're having fun with all this. Keep us posted.

 

[imported_zenhog]

Lynn,



Yes I'm having a blast. But it seems that with every corner I get to, there's another product to be considered just around that corner. PUPP just fell into that category as an outcome of these links. I can't wait to see Brad pitch in - we talked over the weekend and it seems that he's tried everything and finds zaino to be the best looking for him. Never heard mention of topping it with PUPP (or anything).



Yes, I'll re-start this next weekend. Hopefully I can have my car fixed by then. I was backing out of the garage and working my way around another car when I hit a trailer put on my lawn by a well-meaning neighbor. I saw the trailer there 30 times today, but didn't even think about it when backing out. Best case I need the ding strip replaced on the door and the door buffed out. Worst case they'll also have to replair the door and repaint. And we know what "repaint" means to my weekend detailing, at least on that one side.



But for the hood - I think I'll dawn it all, do the klasse on one side and the zaino on the other.



Regarding the p21s Paint Cleanser - it was something Brad showed me as a step prior to sealing. I wonder if he thinks I should wash the car again after applying that if zaino is coming next.



I can say one thing - in good sunlight today I saw very little difference between the polished side of the hood against the side I then added AIO and SGx2 to. I think some wax there may make the difference. If I can stand looking at my poor baby with her little crunch job I just did I'll head out to the garage and wax the half of that hood before it gets too contaminated.



C



Will keep you appraised.



C

 

[imported_Intermezzo]

acrylics contain no polymers - the klasse is like poutting a thin plastic coating on the car and you know how the zaino works on plastics!

Actually, acrylics are polymers also. When CMA says Klasse contains no polymers, what they mean is that it doesn't contain any of the silicone polymers traditionally used in polymer sealants.



But I agree with you about Z... I've applied it over just about everything with fine results. It worked fine over AIO, GEPC, heck even a carnauaba wax. But to test durability, I think the best prep would be to remov all waxes, sealants and polishes and do a bare-bones test of KSG vs. Z-2.

 

[imported_zenhog]

Interesting experiences. From some other posts I get the idea that we have to be almost freaky paranoid about the surface that will host the Z application... yet you've had good luck with just about any surface, including one with Carnauba!



Although a durability test will be an outcome of this - I'm more interested in which makes my car look better!

 

[endus]

I'm not exactly sure what this would prove. I agree that you need to apply these things at the same time. I say do the rest of the car with what you normally use then just test on the hood. That way you can do them both at the same time, wash the car normally etc. If you're altering what you would normally do (washing, what you apply, etc.) then you're totally invalidating any results you'll get out of this since you'll be actually using products in drastically different conditions than in the test.



Also, you need to define what criteria you're testing for. Logevity? That would be good but you have to think about ease of application and how often you would be willing to re-apply the products. If you're going to let them both burn out and see which one lasts longer that will probably work, but it still leaves the question of which one lasts better with maintinance. Look? That's easier to test for since it's your preference and you can see immediately, but once again you need to apply them at the same time in order to really learn anything.



The other problem is that you're adding a lot of variables into this test at once. I mean if you want to compare the end results of two systems that's valid, but it still seems like it would be more meaningful to break it down to as few variables as you can. The nature of the products you're testing aren't necessarily the same, and that may have an effect on the end result of the test depeding on what exactly you are trying to learn. If one product bonds to another better, for example, you may get better longevity. I have never used P21s Cleaner but do you know for sure that Zaino "likes" that stuff? You don't want to sabotage your results. And how do you know that if the Zaino comes out looking better that it wasn't the P21s Cleaner that made it that way? Like I said, if you're set on using either this or that system, then go for it and see what happens, but if you just want the best looking or longest lasting or whatever, you should test one step at a time so you're sure what exactly is making the differences you see.



Bottom line: I agree with Intermezzo...you should remove everything from the paint and then apply just the products you want to compare...and do them at the same time!



Good luck!

 

[shep01]

NO SILICONE, NO ABRASIVES, NO WAX, NO POLYMERS, NO TEFLON

http://www.customacrylic.com/klasse.html



i have to respectfully disagree intermezzo - i have exhausted this subjest previously, obviously, as you can read from the official klasse site - they diferentiate the silicones/polymers - etc. - the best i can research tells me that an acrylic is a different molecule - different 'polymer' bonding - longer chains - but i am no chemical engineer. I think there is a dramatic difference in klasse and the other polymer sealants like zaino, platinum, and hundreds of others that are privately branded.

 

[Mike_Phillips]

Although a durability test will be an outcome of this - I'm more interested in which makes my car look better!

If your going for which one looks better, just for fun, try a test spot using Meguiar's Cleaner/Wax (in the maroon bottle).



Make sure the front label says, "New and Improved".



* Darker results

* Unbelievable water beading ability

* Cost-effective

* All-in-one product



Also, look at your test panels in different light conditions, indoors and outdoors.



For outdoors



* Look in direct sunlight for cobweb-effect.

* Look in early morning, late afternoon, or overcast for darkness and reflectivity.



[/b]For indoors[/b]



* Look for cobweb effect under florescent lights and halogen lights.



* Use diffused light, (covered bulbs, like with a plastic covered shop light), for darkness and reflectivity.



#20 Polymer Sealant would also be a good protectant to test against these two products your already testing for both "good looks" and "durable protection".



When testing different products side-by-side



What I usually do is to tape off the hood using half inch painters masking tape, (the green tape), so that I don’t cross-contaminate panels or test products. I tape off “Squares�, for as many products as I want to test, or as many squares is possible without creating more work than is necessary.







Inspect results,



* Immediately afterwards

* After 24 hours have passed

* 1 week later before washing. Wipe with big fluffy cotton towel and water only to remove dust, (unless your finish is really dirty)

* 1 week later after washing with mild soap and water solution. (anyone’s carwash soap formulated for automotive paints)



Also, only use clean, soft, 100% soft cotton toweling for removing test products,



From a post on #26, http://www.autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=241013#post241013



Page down the thread until you see this,



When to use MF and when to use Cotton?



Just a suggestion...