My detailing process + a few questions

S

sweetlou

New member
Hello, i'm a bit new to the detailing process but have been learning from friends and reading. I've detailed my car a few times and am starting to stock up on products for my car and others. I've spent quite a few hours looking for the best or good for the money type products and am kind of swamped by the many names and numbers of products but am familiar with most brands now. There are many products such as svisswax, zaino, dp, optimum, that i know little about but frequently see.

Heres a quick rundown of the detailing process for my car, which has very few swirls/scratches.



wash

blackfire gloss shampoo (looking for something a bit cheaper to use on others cars which have yet to be waxed/etc. Megs gold class seems pretty good, maybe some Chemical guys citrus. suggestions?)

i have a pressure washer, but dont really use it on the car, maybe i should with some kind of foam?



using red Ultimitt + 5 gal (still need grit guard as im starting to see slight swirls)



drying with big blue ww towel (great, but a little pricey... suggestions?)



clay

using the blackfire polyclay 2, with eagle one wipe n shine as lube(no problem with this qd as its 4$ a bottle, but theres probably better stuff out there), as well as water, and am pretty happy with this step, but doesnt seem to get the car perfectly smooth as glass.



polish

blackfire gloss enhancing polish on a white lcc pad with the porter cable, also have tried the menzerna final polish 2 which has a bit more cut but takes a lot of product to do a car and pretty expensive. thinking of getting some intensive polish for others cars, but am open to suggestions.



wax/sealant

Blackfire wet diamond all finish paint protection applied via red lcc pad on pc. -Like this stuff, but even after 2 coats doesnt bead very tight (probably because its a sealant, not carnuba based?) Also after 3 cars the bottle feels about 1/3 to 1/2 empty 16oz i believe, which leads me to believe im applying too much.

its pretty good for the money (20-30$ a bottle) but looking for other contenders to switch things up, or maybe less expensive products for others cars. I've seen many people suggest collonite (#?) and dozens of other products, but have never seen them.



interior

mostly 303 for my car on the dash and trim with mf or terry towel, also some vinylex.

purchased some lexol cleaner and conditioners for leather in others cars, which ive heard is good stuff. Question here is, what is good for cloth interior? 303 makes a cleaner i believe, but looking for other products and suggestions . also using 303 spot remover, which works well. I frequently see megs apc used here both for general cleaning/spot removing, opinions?



wheels

im using megs chrome cleaner on my wheels, but just got some menzerna 7.5 wheel and tire cleaner as well (expensive, looking for other products such as megs all purpose cleaner diluted (what ratio?) chemical guys or something else? ive seen many many different products used here thus my question. Also NEED A GOOD WHEEL BRUSH, i have yet to see a good soft wheel brush, and especially one that can reach into the barrel of wheels under big brakes. -This is very frustrating.



when im not lazy, sealing with wheel wax on mf applicator.



tires

using 303 lately with scrub brush or applicator for low shine, but looking for something with more shine/less expensive and more durable. Ive seen megs hot shine gel which looks good, but what else?



windows

either water, or eiseman fabrik window cleaner on glass mf towel, following with rain-ex

might pick up some stoners aerosol, unless theres something better for the money.



that seems like about it haha, sorry for the long write up, just looking for some comments on my process, as well as some suggestions as for products to use.
 
Well, just remember Blackfires GEP has no cut at all and is a pure polish/glaze combo. I like Blackfires sealant alot, good product in my view, especially since it comes stocked with Polycharger. Hopefully with the addition of Polycharger, the durability will improve, which has always been the knock of this sealant. Ive used the sealant on 3 cars already and probobly only used 3 ounces total product, I spread mine with the PC/Red finishing pad and go as thin as possible. I can do a car with about 1 ounce total. Looks to me like you are using way to much product. Thoses beads should be pretty tight across the board. Have you polished the car down with Fp2? What color is the car? Just remember, how well your car looks will depend on how well you polished the car. So before you start switching products, make sure you polish the car down to a mirror, because like has been said a thousand times, its 90% prep, 10% sealant/wax
 
its reflex silver. I polished the hood with FP2, but was using a friends bottle so i didnt want to do the whole car, so i switched to the blackfire mostly for shine and smoothness, not correction. The roof is the only part not beading super tight, like theres small puddles near the middle (maybe thats normal idk) ill try to get pics next time i wash it or it rains. Should i top with a carnuba if i want super beading, if so are there certain "nubas" that do better over sealants like blackfire even if the sealant is layered. (i did allow the first layer to cure over 24 hr)
 
A couple of things to help w/ swirling induced by washing: use that pressure washer to prerinse the car if grit is present and use a hose end nozzle to rinse your mitt outside of the rinse bucket, then dunk into the rinse bucket.



I really like Blackfire GEP as a cleaner/glaze on black, good product. Their Wet Diamond held up for 3-4 months for me but I quit using it due to staining issues. For 'nuba I recommend Clearkote Carnauba Moose Wax.
 
ive heard of the moose products, just never seen them for sale or anything. The paint looks good, just seems like its not beading like it should in certain spots (probably due to novice application). As for the carnuba, i was looking at collonite (never used but hear only good things about it over maybe klasse aio) or the p21s, which ive seen and heard is good. As for wheel brushes, tire dressings, interior dressings/cleaners, and wash im a little shorthanded.
 
I used to us QD or buy Clay lube for claying, but now i just mix up 50:50 water and car wash. Much cheaper and very lubricative. Just harder to rinse off. For five bucks I can make at least 6 or 8 bottles of clay lube.
 
I dunno if the current version of BF is the same as the older (pre-PolyCharger) version I have, but BF darkened paint a *LOT* when I used it, and that wasn't something I really wanted on silver. I didn't realize how much it did this until I compared the two Audis side-by-side...they looked like different paint codes! (Not a flame, I do like BF for certain jobs.)



sweetlou-



Washing- a good shampoo (lubricity, encapsulation, etc.) is, IMO, worth what ever it costs. But find something you can buy in gallons. GC isn't *bad* stuff, but I bet DuraGloss is better.



A lot of people like doing a pre-wash with the pressure washer.



Drying- Again, IMO a good drying towel (no marring, absorbent) is worth whatever it costs.



Polish- As noted, the BF GEP isn't much of a corrective polish. The right polish for the job is worth whatever it costs (gee, notice a pattern in my reasoning ;) ) and it takes however much it takes to do the job.



Using a too-mild product will take a whole lot more time and effort than using something more aggressive for the major correction. I'd use something to correct, then something like the FPII to burnish, and then maybe the BF GEP before sealing.



Didn't some (long ago) test show that the BF GEP is more abrasive than one would expect :confused: I haven't used mine on any (regular) painted surfaces except Audis, and it's functionally nonabrasive on that (very hard) clear so I dunno how aggressive it really is...but I get paint transfer when I use it on ss paint.



If the wash/dry is sorted out and done right, you won't need to polish more than once a year, if that often.



Sealant- You're using a zillion times too much. When I did the S8 (not a small car) with BF, you couldn't really tell I'd used *any*, the bottle still seemed nearly full. Try doing it by hand, so thin you can't see it on the paint.



Interior (cloth)- I just use Griot's interior cleaner, but you could try a Woolite/water mix.



Wheels- I'd polish/seal them and clean with shampoo mix. I like BHBs and the little 3-finger sheepskin mitt from Griot's.



Tires- I like Z16.



Glass- I'm not a RainX fan. I *really* like Griot's polypro window towels but some (made-for-glass) MFs are great too.
 
im not familiar with darkening issues with blackfire, what would be a good sealant to compare it with next time, or is the paint already stained? Wheres a good place to get samples of sealants/waxes/polishes if there is one, seems like a good idea.



to accumulator-as for cost vs getting the job done, im not really concerned with the cost, just looking for the best and different products to just get a feel for what works the best for the particular application. Like the blackfire shampoo works with the sealant , so why use it on a car that doesnt have blackfire sealant just yet? Other people (possibly customers) might want something a little more cost effective, and it wouldnt hurt me if that product worked just fine for my purposes as well. Like using apc on interior and wheels and what not, cost effective products.



as for sealant amount, how do i know if im even applying product if i cant see it

? I understand hand app typically uses less, but when i can fully cover my car by machine and buff off in 40 min, id rather stick to machine, just try to use much less. Also following up with a carnuba by hand might ease my concern with putting on too little sealant.



as for polish, i might order some intensive polish (which i assume has less cut than sip, people throw around the numbers like 106 and 085 and 083, but i get slightly confused. Most of them are meant for scratch resistant clear when i look them up, but where i normally get stuff (properautocare) they have regular versions. Is the scratch resistant clear line safe for all finishes, or even necessary, bc they are more expensive.



As for the gep, i was using it merely to enhance the gloss, not to correct. But that also raises another question, since next time i wont need to clay or polish next time, what would remove the old wax/sealant? Ive read paint cleansers such as p21s, collonite and duragloss do this without abrasives, but what other ways are there?



still stumped on the good wheel brushes.
 
sweetlou said:
im not familiar with darkening issues with blackfire, what would be a good sealant to compare it with next time, or is the paint already stained? Wheres a good place to get samples of sealants/waxes/polishes if there is one, seems like a good idea.
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I'm not sure what in the BF resulted in the darkening (I suspect some kind of oils), but it was something in the product...not a staining of the paint. Redoing the car with something else (after using a paint cleaner) returned it to normal.



Since then, I've been using 4-Star UPP on that car, and no more darkening. FWIW, that's my current fave for looks on Audi silver. But different silvers are different and the same product won't look best on all of them (and "best" is subjective anyhow). Plus, 95% of the looks are in the prep, the wax/sealant doesn't usually make a huge difference. That's one more reason the BF surprised me; that *was* a big difference.

to accumulator-as for cost vs getting the job done, im not really concerned with the cost, just looking for the best and different products to just get a feel for what works the best for the particular application. Like the blackfire shampoo works with the sealant , so why use it on a car that doesnt have blackfire sealant just yet? Other people (possibly customers) might want something a little more cost effective....
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I've never found any functional difference with regard to whether a shampoo is made for sealants or not. I use Griot's on *every* LSP as I believe it's the best shampoo on the market, but it's not exactly cheap. The DuraGloss is supposedly the closest thing to Griot's according to people who've used a lot of both shampoos.



as for sealant amount, how do i know if im even applying product if i cant see it

? I understand hand app typically uses less, but when i can fully cover my car by machine and buff off in 40 min, id rather stick to machine, just try to use much less. Also following up with a carnuba by hand might ease my concern with putting on too little sealant...
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By working methodically and carefully, you'll know whether you've achieved good, uniform coverage. And you can tell by feel...areas that have LSP on them simply feel different from "bare" paint. IF I can clearly see sealant residue on the paint before I buff it off, I know I applied *way* too much. It takes a lot less than an ounce to do a minivan, for instance. Excess product is simply wasted as it gets wiped off anyhow, and it's not just an economic concern as it can lead to streaking, delayed onset "blooming", and very difficult buffing.



Oddly enough, I find I can apply wax/sealant at least as fast by hand. And with sealants I do get a better/thinner/more uniform application that way. Waxes are different..it's not *faster* doing it by machine, but I believe I get a better application that way. Waxes and sealants area simply different in that regard *IMO/IME*.



By the time I get the machine set up with a pad, and then put it away, I could've pretty much applied the wax/sealant by hand and been done with it, even large vehicles. It's just not faster the way *polishing* by machine is, at least not for me.



I've quit putting waxes on top of sealants as it precludes applying more sealant later. I decide which I'm using on that vehicle (wax or sealant) and just use one or the other.



as for polish, i might order some intensive polish (which i assume has less cut than sip, people throw around the numbers like 106 and 085 and 083, but i get slightly confused. Most of them are meant for scratch resistant clear when i look them up, but where i normally get stuff (properautocare) they have regular versions. Is the scratch resistant clear line safe for all finishes, or even necessary, bc they are more expensive.
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I have *very* limited experience with Menzerna, it's just not one of my polish brands of choice. But polishes for scratch-resistant clear are almost always OK for conventional paints, even single-stage paints.



As for the gep, i was using it merely to enhance the gloss, not to correct. But that also raises another question, since next time i wont need to clay or polish next time, what would remove the old wax/sealant? Ive read paint cleansers such as p21s, collonite and duragloss do this without abrasives, but what other ways are there?
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OK, and the GEP is very good for some things...I love it for sorta-nasty-condition black items like on undercarriages and under the hood. Topped with BF sealant, it simply works great for such stuff IME, who woulda thunk it? Even items with light surface rust turn out pretty good!



When a LSP (wax or sealant) needs a little refreshing, and I do this before it gets really "dead", I simply clay *very* gently with Sonus green Ultra-fine Clay and reapply the wax or sealant. No need for a paint cleaner or polish, I just do the claying quickly and easily during the wash. Then I dry the vehicle and reapply the wax/sealant.



..still stumped on the good wheel brushes.
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Go to Griot's website and check out their Boar's Hair Brushes for wheels, and also the smaller ones they sell for use on interiors (these are great for around lug nuts/bolts). You'll also find the little sheepskin mitts made for wheels on their site.



I don't like aggressive wheel brushes as they can mar the clear on some wheels.
 
hmm, whats onr? Im pretty interested in the poli-seal + moose carnuba wax, if thats a good combo. not sure, maybe some other sealant such as chem guys + a carnuba. However maybe sticking to either sealant or carnuba like accelerator is the best approach.



Another random question, going to griots site reminds me that they have their own pc type orbital, except it has a front mounted handle. Im not a fan of the side mount on the pc 7424, so is there any difference between the griots version and the 7424? (ie backing plates, pad compatibility, performance etc?)
 
sweetlou said:
hmm, whats onr? Im pretty interested in the poli-seal + moose carnuba wax, if thats a good combo. not sure, maybe some other sealant such as chem guys + a carnuba. However maybe sticking to either sealant or carnuba like accelerator is the best approach.



Another random question, going to griots site reminds me that they have their own pc type orbital, except it has a front mounted handle. Im not a fan of the side mount on the pc 7424, so is there any difference between the griots version and the 7424? (ie backing plates, pad compatibility, performance etc?)
Click to expand...



ONR is Optimum no rinse. I have never been sold on the waterless washes, or the limited water usage methods, but ONR has changed my opinion. Different concentrations of the ONR formula offer a car wash solution, clay bar lubricant, and ONR itself at the car wash solution cleans wheels and does it very well... Just this past friday I worked on a Mercedes SL55 that was pretty dirty. For the wheel wells I used a good all purpose cleaner in addition to the tires, then for the wheels I used just ONR and it was great. Check it out, you won't be dissapointed. BTW check out Scottwax and his posts. He is a big user of Optimum products, and has posted videos using ONR for the body and for the wheels...:xyxthumbs
 
sweetlou said:
..Another random question, going to griots site reminds me that they have their own pc type orbital, except it has a front mounted handle. Im not a fan of the side mount on the pc 7424, so is there any difference between the griots version and the 7424? (ie backing plates, pad compatibility, performance etc?)
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I dunno anything about the Griot's polisher, but I'd make sure you can use 4" pads/small backing plates on it before you get too serious about buying one. It's the small pads that allow machines like that to do serious correction.
 
i looked through several threads and most people had positive things to say about the optimum wash and no rinse wash, so i might give that a try.



I would agree seeing if the smaller pads work with the griots, but if not, there is the meguiares option.



as for wheels, it seems like the ez brush is the best thing out there, and many use the svisswax brush, but it doesnt seem very practical for large surfaces, i just prefer to use a dedicated wheel sponge. The main issue is getting under big brakes and through small openings to clean the inside of the wheel.



Next time i detail, i will most likely polish again with either intensive polish or sip before the very light swirling becomes more evident, as well as picking up some halogens. Even with the lights in my garage, it is almost impossible to see any swirls, possibly because there are few swirls, or i dont have the right lighting. Then i either want to follow up with a sealant and a carnuba or just carnuba.

People said that the carnuba moose wax didnt bead consistantly or very well, but i would like to try something that beads very nicely. Perhaps p21s , or pinnical souveran which i frequently see used.
 
just typed a bunch of stuff but lost it :wall here it is again though...



After many research hours, i've compiled a new list of products i want to try/and hopefully keep using.



Wash-Duragloss 901, Optimum no rinse, or their wash, eisenman fabrik shampoo, and/or chem guys citrus for removing lsps



polish-Mostly menz sip, ip, 106 nano polish, Final polish 2, (not sure what the difference between fp2, 87, 106, and 85 are though). Poorboys ssr#, 1z metallic polish wax



wax- pending testing 476s or carnuba moose will be the go to products, maybe duragloss 105, or 1z glanz wax (with the metal polish).



gets a little more difficult here, for the little something extra wax, im considering-Pinnacle Signature series 2, chemical guys '53, chem guys 50/50, lusso oro, zymol creme, dodo diamond white(or maybe a sampler), maybe even springing for some swissvax onyx or souveran. opinions on those w/previous products or in general.



glaze- if desired danse wet glaze, megs glaze, lusso glaze w/ the oro, chem guys glaze



wheels-menz 7.5 (like this ) or p21s, megs apc or wheel brite for tougher jobs.



tires-duragloss 251, optimum tire gel, zaino z-16



qd-fk452, duragloss aquawax(is this a qd, not positive?), duragloss 921, megs 34(current), Prima slick, optimum instant detailer, Poorboys spray and gloss, chem guys super slick. some better for carnuba, some for sealants... which?



i would be willing to buy samples of most of these products

..:waxing:tia
 
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