Mild improvement in the marring on my Black A4...

N

neoprufrok

New member
So today, I was working with the black A4 again. My goal was to remove some of the marring and holographic swirls that have been in the paint, probably due to a combination of bodyshop buffing and my own mistakes with DACP.



Anyways, I tried 3M PI3 MG on the pass door panel, and it came out pretty decent with the finishing pad. Very little marring left, so I proceeded to continue this and followed up with a hand application of Klasse AIO.





The paint was damn near perfect after the GEPC, but after the Klasse AIO went on, I noticed that some fo the marring returned. Which was higly disappointing. Add to that my frustrations with Klasse (never seems to work well with me, WOO method or not), and I'm left with a car that looks better than this morning, but still not to my liking.



I toyed with the idea of just using GePc with p21s carnuaba, but I tried that on a test panel, and it didn't seem to resolve the marring that returned after the Klasse AIO step. Maybe I'm doing something horribly wrong here, but I've been doing this for awhile - so I'm not sure.
 
I use AIO all the time. The AIO probably just removed the oils from the GEPC that filled in your marring before.
 
lol, dont get frustrated. you probably did not remove all the swirls with the MG, and filled in some of them. The AIO probably removed the fillers, revealing the swirls.



A finishing pad? You should really be using at least a polishing pad, possibly a cutting pad with the MG. (or a stronger polish with a polishing pad)



After applying the MG, I like to spray down each panel with Alcohol in a spray bottle to remove any fillers/oils and check for swirls.



In summary, this is what I would do:



(clay)

3M MG with polishing pad

check with Alcohol Spray wipe

AIO

SG

p21s
 
Ah, seems like same problem I had with PI III MG on my other car, got the paint looking better and brighter but some of the marring still there. I also have the GEPC but don't use it because if I use Klasse the AIO will remove it :(
 
neoprufrok- I bet this is getting frustrating. Isn't it a pain to run into something outside of your previous experience that just defies your efforts?



Heh heh, Audi clear...so hard you wonder how it ever got marred in the first place ;)



The trouble is that you're not removing the marring, the stuff in the GEPC covers it, and the AIO UNcovers it. Then the AIO leaves a a little polymer that the NEXT application of GEPC has trouble cutting through (it will if you work it a bit more) so it's hard to "get back one step" to where you were before the AIO.



Note that GEPC has more oils and fillers than you might think, so you need to get things better before going to that step. Just gotta get that [insert expletive here] marring out.



As LouisanaJeeper said, part of the trouble is your choice of pad. Or, IMO, your product AND pad. You really need to get more aggressive. Just going at it with mild combos over and over will NOT, in my experience, get it out. The Audi clear is just too tough.



I dunno if you saw my posts on it, but I spent (literally) DAYS trying to remove marring from a friend's A6 with too-mild methods. It was so frustrating that I bought a rotary, even though MY cars usually don't get so messed up as to need one. Your situation isn't THAT bad, but you really do have to be pretty aggressive with this. You do NOT have to worry about getting TOO aggressive...you're approaching this cautiously enough that I don't think that's gonna be a problem.



Much as it might go against your grain, get something like the PI-III RC (05933) or some more DACP (if you use that , work it until it disappears) and some cutting and polishing pads. I'd be surprised if you EVER need to drop down to a finishing pad (except for SG/wax); the MG/polishing combo will almost ALWAYS yield a ready-to-wax finish and can thus be your last step before the AIO (which I'd ALSO apply with a polishing pad). Note that usually a polishing pad in and of itself is NOT so coarse as to induce marring (certainly not in YOUR paint).



Once you do as much polishing as you're gonna (maybe things'll turn out perfect, maybe not), since Klasse never seems to work for you, why not go with something else? Something that DOES have fillers (maybe even the GEPC, though I'd use something with better fillers) and a "heavy" wax like Meg's #16. That would fill a lot of marring and might be worth considering. It's not like EVERYONE has to work with [a given product line] until they get the results they're after. And different cars call for different approaches.



LouisanaJeeper- Did you ever find the alcohol spritzer actually removed any oils/fillers from the MG? I never did, so I quit doing it, figuring I'd accept the label's "no fillers". Just curious, not :argue
 
I really like the 1Z polishes, especially the Ultra (yellow can) for attacking problem areas. Follow this with the Paint Polish (green) and Menzerna FP to get rid of the fillers. With the FP, you and see any remaining blemished before you start with the finish(s).
 
Accumulator said:


Much as it might go against your grain, get something like the PI-III RC (05933)
Click to expand...





Hmm... Should I be adding this to my product line up too? I have the same car as Neoprufrok, I have DACP and the 1z polishes already :nixweiss
 
Bill D- Well, *I* like having a bunch of different polishes/compounds on hand, sorta like having a zillion different screwdrivers.



As best I can tell, the 05933 is just a little more abrasive than the 1Z PP, and less than the 1Z Ultra (and I think it breaks down finer). Probably VERY similar to the DACP. It breaks down quickly, even by hand, and doesn't leave anything behind. I'd say it's what *I* use instead of DACP when I don't want the stuff 1Z leaves behind. I dunno if you really NEED it, given what you already have.



Gonzo- Yeah, I use 1Z polishes more than any others these days (and I just ordered the FP, though I've been happy with 1ZMP), but I didn't want to send neoprufrok off in a totally different direction.
 
Accumulator

Me too (direction thing) as I have a 32 Oz bottle of Menzerna's Power Gloss, but there is a black Lightning next weekend that has its name on it.
 
Thanks again Accumulator, maybe in my travels, if I can't "fight the urge" I'll get the PI III RC to "round off" the collection :D
 
Thanks for the responses everyone. It seems like this car is giving me the most headaches of any I've owned. My black Honda was so much easier to remove swirls!



Accumulator: I actually have a huge bottle of DACP. As I mentioned in my original post, I used this first with a LC yellow pad, but it left significant hazing. My bet though, is that that was due to me not making enough passes, as I only went 3-4 passes without flashing. Does DACP flash? And if so, when?



My other BIG difficulty, is that I was lucky to have the garage these past two weekends. We live in a duplex in a hard to find real estate area in Cali. This means that I share the garage (I park left side, they park right side) with our neighbors. Our old neighbors moved out recently, so I've had the garage to myself these past couple of weekends.



The new neighbors moved in today, so I'm kinda stuck with no place to do my detailing!



The car looks better than 99.9% of those out on the road, and my wife thinks I'm totally ridiculous, so I may just rest up and figure something out. In the sunlight, you can't see much in teh way of swirls or even "cobwebbing." You only see these hazy holograms that were much more faint than yesterday. I have a car show to attend in Santa Barbara on April 10th, and like you said Accumulator, the best thing maybe to just cover up with GEPC and p21s. We'll see.



But the frustration level is getting high.. until someone tells me they've never seen a car waxed that nicely. I guess I'm just a perfectionist.
 
Also, I should mention that I made a mistake above. I used the LC white pad with the PI3MG, which is their polishing pad. The cutting pad was (yellow one) wasn't used.
 
neoprufrok said:
. I guess I'm just a perfectionist.
Click to expand...





Me too :D :D Looks like we're in for quite a challenge owning this paint. You've already experienced your first. I'm keeping this post for future reference ;)
 
neoprufrok- I'm truly *NO* authority on DACP, but yeah, you want to work it until it dries, turns to powder, disappears. It takes a LONG time by PC or by hand. Even if it leaves some hazing, it should be sorta uniform, and IT should be all you then have to deal with.



Given your garage situation and the upcoming show, *I* would get a stuff from a different product line. *I* would go with either 3M (I'm used to it) or 1Z (get all three polishes), a bunch of cutting and polishing pads, and go for it.



Hmm..thinking...OK, get the 1Z stuff. Really. It's *SO* user-friendly you won't believe it. Consider it a gift to yourself for all the frustration you've gone through. Seriously. In my honest opinion, that's gonna be the simplest way to get this behind you. I worry that the 3M stuff might be a bit TOO mild for what you're dealing with and I DO NOT want to suggest anything that's gonna take too much time and effort.



It occurs to me that you're sorta trying to "do rotary work with a PC", not an easy thing on an Audi. But I'm still pretty sure you can get this resolved.
 
Thanks again accumulator...



For now, I'm going to just use GEPC and s100 and once I figure out the garage situation, go with the 1z polishes.



GEPC should take out all the Klasse, correct?



Thanks.
 
neoprufrok said:
..GEPC should take out all the Klasse, correct?.
Click to expand...



Yeah, but that's IF (big "if") you work it enough. While we trivialize/disparage the amount of protection AIO leaves behind, you're trying to remove it with something pretty mild. Remember how redoing the AIO'ed areas with GEPC didn't get you back to the "pre AIO" look? That's almost certainly the reason why. Really work the GEPC in, apply it more than once, do what you have to do. Maybe use something like #81/IHG as a stop-gap measure.
 
In my experience with DACP, I work it at a PC speed of 4.5-5.5 with a yellow LC (cutting) pad. I work it until it is powder. When I "buff" the excess off, it really is for removing the dried powder, not a wet or "flashed" product. I generally follow with just #9 on a LC white (polishing) pad, then top with sealant or wax of choice (for more of "wet" look, #3 or 1Z MP can be used before final step). I believe working the DACP until dry is really the key to avoiding any hazing, as I've had none with it. It really is an amazing product.

You could even use it with a polishing pad if you don't need the extra bite from a cutting pad. I use it this way for light swirls and general cleaning that #9 isn't quite aggressive enough for, but a cutting pad might be overkill. And I've even used #9 with a cutting pad with good results, so something like that may help you out. There are no set rules to what pads to always use with what product, just guidelines. Every paint/situation is different and may require different actions.

Others have more experience with the other products. But I've been simply amazed at DACP's performance when worked until dry (which isn't very long on 4.5-5.5 with a PC).



Dave
 
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