Menzerna IP Working Time

J

jjwl89

New member
I started polishing my '95 VW recently with Menzerna intensive polish, a PC, and 4" yellow and orange LC pads. I was working in a garage and it wasn't to hot out. I started by misting the pad with with water, applying a small amount of polish to the pad and spreading the polish over a 2' x 2' area. Within maybe 20 seconds of spreading the polish , it dried and then when I made a single pass over the panel, the polish appeared to break down, resulting in little correction. I did several more passes and while some of the swirling was removed, there were still several RIDS left and it took a really long time to even get to that level of correction.



Is there any reason why the polish would be drying so quickly and not achieving a good deal of correction? I'm thinking of trying out some 1Z Intensive Paste.
 
Menzerna shouldn't have named that product "Intensive Polish". They make it sound like it has serious correcting abilities, and it just doesn't. It's one of the lighter weight medium polishes. Even with a rotary, it doesn't have alot of correcting ability. Unfortunately, what you're seeing is about what you can expect with IP and a PC. It'll take a huge number of applications to get noticeable correction.



I would recommend getting a real compound (Meguairs M95 would be first choice) and apply it with a 4" LC orange foam pad. Even with this aggressive combination, it may take two or more applications to achieve the correction you want. Follow up with the Intensive Polish and a white 4" pad. This should remove the compounding haze, holograms, etc. that are left over from the M95. Again, this might take two applications. Then follow up with a finishing polish, such as Menzerna PO106FF on a white 4" foam pad. Once again, two applications will most likely be needed. Doing a total correction/polishing job with a PC makes for *alot* of work, but the results are worth it.
 
Humidity may be a factor. Although it doesn't seem to affect IP as much as SIP, weather conditions can really mess with Menzerna products. Under ideal conditions, IP will be workable for several passes, and fully broken down after 2-5 minutes when working with the PC. In my experience, certain conditions (direct sun, warm paint, high temps, somewhat high humidity) cause it to break down much quicker. I have experienced the 1-pass break down, and I know it's not a fun process. That's why I keep some Optimum Polish handy in case Menzerna decides to act up. Search around and see if you can find any techniques to combat this (I've heard of several but am not familiar enough with the details to share them).
 
tC_Crazy said:
Humidity may be a factor. Although it doesn't seem to affect IP as much as SIP, weather conditions can really mess with Menzerna products. Under ideal conditions, IP will be workable for several passes, and fully broken down after 2-5 minutes when working with the PC. In my experience, certain conditions (direct sun, warm paint, high temps, somewhat high humidity) cause it to break down much quicker. I have experienced the 1-pass break down, and I know it's not a fun process. That's why I keep some Optimum Polish handy in case Menzerna decides to act up. Search around and see if you can find any techniques to combat this (I've heard of several but am not familiar enough with the details to share them).
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Exactly. It's always so hard to answer the "how long should I work IP or SIP?" questions, cause it's so variable. I've seen IP do the one-pass break down before, too. Frustrating.
 
Yeah. It can be extremely confusing for a beginner. The first time I used Menzerna (second time polishing overall, first was with optimum) I thought that one-pass-wonder was how IP supposed to work. I polished half the car like that, and because I had soft Toyota paint with very minor swirls, it actually did 90% correction. Since I followed with FP, which I noticed took about 3 times longer to break down, I really didn't notice any problems. It's when I got to the actual marring on the other side when I realized it wasn't doing all that much. Menzerna teaches a hard lesson to new detailers.
 
Depends on the paint too -On Honda's, I can correct light scratches with FFII and a PC (5.5" orange LC pad), try that on an Audi and it will laugh at you!
 
Thanks for the replies. I believe the clear on my VW is pretty hard because there is a repainted panel and it seemed to correct a bit eaiser than the rest of the car. How does 1Zs Intensive Paste compare to M95 and Menzerna IP? Also, what is a good comparable polish to 106FF that doesn't cost too much. I don't do too much polishing, maybe 4 times a year so I'm not sure I can justify the 106FF. Also if it makes any difference, the IP I have is from CMA and is in the rectangular bottle, not the big round bottle from Autogeek. Is it basicly the same stuff? Thanks
 
jjwl89 said:
Thanks for the replies. I believe the clear on my VW is pretty hard because there is a repainted panel and it seemed to correct a bit eaiser than the rest of the car. How does 1Zs Intensive Paste compare to M95 and Menzerna IP? Also, what is a good comparable polish to 106FF that doesn't cost too much. I don't do too much polishing, maybe 4 times a year so I'm not sure I can justify the 106FF. Also if it makes any difference, the IP I have is from CMA and is in the rectangular bottle, not the big round bottle from Autogeek. Is it basicly the same stuff? Thanks
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Accumulator loves 1Z. Enough said for me.
 
jjwl89 said:
Thanks for the replies. I believe the clear on my VW is pretty hard because there is a repainted panel and it seemed to correct a bit eaiser than the rest of the car. How does 1Zs Intensive Paste compare to M95 and Menzerna IP? Also, what is a good comparable polish to 106FF that doesn't cost too much. I don't do too much polishing, maybe 4 times a year so I'm not sure I can justify the 106FF. Also if it makes any difference, the IP I have is from CMA and is in the rectangular bottle, not the big round bottle from Autogeek. Is it basicly the same stuff? Thanks
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I've never used 1Z's Intensive Paste, but Accumulator says it's pretty strong stuff. Should be *much* stronger than IP. IP is very gentle, really. As for a polish that's similar to PO106FF, 1Z's High Gloss is cheaper and very easy to use. And as long as your Menzerna bottle says PO106FF on it, it doesn't matter where you bought it or the shape of the container. It's the same stuff.



Cassman said:
Accumulator loves 1Z. Enough said for me.
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Yup.
 
Great stuff in this thread. I think of 1Z whenever I get frustrated with SIP/IP...one of these days I'm just going to have to add another polish to the shelf. :)



In any case - not that you need me to confirm anything from SuperBee364 (or Accumulator) - but I agree that IP is really gentle. I remember being somewhat disappointed to discover that, just as I had the same impression of Poorboy's SSR 2.5. Nonetheless, I love it and can't stop using it. :) FWIW, it's also pretty much replaced the metal polishes on my shelf - it is terrific on wheels and exhaust tips. Anyway, in my experimentation (translation: when SIP either gums up or dries and dusts right before my eyes, leaving me with an even goofier facial expression than normal), I'll add a few drops of IP to the pad when using SIP for more working time.
 
One thing all of you missed is the fact that he misted the pad with water.



As with humidity, there's one thing menzerna absolutely goes nuts with, and that's water. The glycerine/mineral oil carrier goes nuts when you use water.

As I've said before, I've been busy trying out various mixtures of glycerin/water and also mineral oil to use as a pad prep/lubricant when using Menzerna in hot, humid weather or just when I really need it.



Again, water causes trouble with Menz.



Anyways, if you think IP gums up... Powergloss can be even harsher to the newbie. I remember using too much PG on an orange pad. What a massive pain. Gums up in an instant, and water just intensifies the problem.



Think about it though, water is a terrible lubricant, and I think what happens is it dilutes the glycerin just enough to where it actually dries the polish slightly, as well as separating the mineral oil. This causes it to clump terribly.
 
When I first started reading about detailing - CMA was one of the site I read cover to cover and Terry uses water to prep the pads in his demonstrations. I have only used water very sparingly - most of the time I just use a mist of some cheap QD when I first start buffing and nothing afterwards , unless I change pads of course.
 
This thread is very helpful. I just used Menzerna IP (PC + orange pad) for the first time yesterday on my grey 2000 Honda. It was very humid outside and around 85 degrees in my garage. I used the pad lubricant that came with my pad kit from CMA. It broke down after about 2 minutes. I wiped off most of the dry haze with a damp microfiber cloth. The remaining haze came off when I polished with P21S polish. I finished off with P21S wax. My paint was in pretty good condition, but it did a nice job smoothing out a few minor paint defects.
 
charlesaferg said:
One thing all of you missed is the fact that he misted the pad with water.



As with humidity, there's one thing menzerna absolutely goes nuts with, and that's water. The glycerine/mineral oil carrier goes nuts when you use water.

As I've said before, I've been busy trying out various mixtures of glycerin/water and also mineral oil to use as a pad prep/lubricant when using Menzerna in hot, humid weather or just when I really need it.



Again, water causes trouble with Menz.



Anyways, if you think IP gums up... Powergloss can be even harsher to the newbie. I remember using too much PG on an orange pad. What a massive pain. Gums up in an instant, and water just intensifies the problem.



Think about it though, water is a terrible lubricant, and I think what happens is it dilutes the glycerin just enough to where it actually dries the polish slightly, as well as separating the mineral oil. This causes it to clump terribly.
Click to expand...



It wasn't that the polish was gumming up (well it may have been somewhat) but it would dry nearly instantly when I spread it around on the panel that I was working on and with only one pass it seemed to break down.
 
SIP is the one that gums up. I haven't seen IP gum up yet, but it just seems to break down and disappear very quickly. (and by disappear I mean wiping with a MF after polishing makes almost no visual difference)



They're just aspects of each polish that one needs to learn to recognize.
 
Does this mean the experts are recommending a pad lubricant? I've been reading here for about a year and this is the first I've heard of that - just proves there is always more to learn. Should using something like Pinnacle XMT Polishing Pad Conditioner be a standard operating procedure?
 
I did my G35 recently and had excellent results using QD and IP. Didn't have to do it as often, just a spritz initially, and every now and then. No gumming up of the IP and did manage to get some more working time with it.
 
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