Was looking to try out Menzerna polishes and just am a little confused. I know the current "go to" combo is 400/4500. My question is outside of how well it finishes down, why would you choose the compound the farthest on the aggressive scale? Is 400 not overkill on moderately maintained vehicles that still need more than 4000/4500?
Menzerna 400/4500
- Thread starter 2quikta
- Start date
rlmccarty2000
Active member
Good question. You could always just use the 4500 first ( least aggressive method) on a test spot and check the results. Then, if scratches remain try the 400 followed by the 4500. I like the 4000 and if I don't like the results I'll go to 4500 to "jewel" the paint. But usually the 4000 looks good enough to me, pretty much flawless.
4500 on it's own has little cut at all, it's much more of a jeweling polish. 400 is about the level of Meguiars 105, and I'd consider 4000 to be close to 205 but a lighter cut.
On cars that need the cut, 400/2500 will get you pretty much LSP ready, if they just need a minor correction/polish 2500/4500 combo is a pretty unbeatable shine.
On cars that need the cut, 400/2500 will get you pretty much LSP ready, if they just need a minor correction/polish 2500/4500 combo is a pretty unbeatable shine.
Stokdgs
dansautodetailing.com
What kind of machine and pads are you going to use, and how much experience do you have with the machine and those pads ?
What does the paint look like on the vehicle/s you are planning to work on ? Pics ?
What kind of results are you looking to get ?
Dan F
I'm just learning to use my flex 3401. I'm also just learning the LC hybrid pads I have. I have the orange, white, and black. Vehicles are mostly going to be daily's with one exception. While I'm not looking for concourse level results, I try to get the best results I can.
I'm sure the 400 would work on just about anything, I just found it odd the go to combo was the most aggressive, followed by the least aggressive.
If you're not trying to just one step it and you're finishing with say 4500, does it really matter what the gloss number is of the compound? How well would 1500/4500 work as a sort of jack of all trades combo? If you were just looking for 1 compound and 1 finish, would 4000 be the better option?
XxBoostinxX
New member
I love Menzerna products, but I don't know if there is just two polishes I use the most. I have 4 and I use all of them pretty often: FG400, SIP1500, PF2500, and SF4500. I recommend getting 3 of the 4: FG400, SIP1500, and SF4500. You should be able to cover a wide spectrum with those 3.
Smack
New member
For me I use FG400/SF4000 as my compound and polish. SF4500 does not have enough pull in it to finish out whatever FG400 left behind in all my testing. For me SF4500 is used to extract the maximum gloss from the panel after it has been polished with SF4000.
Here is an article I put together on extracting the maximum performance from the 3401, Hybrid pads, and Menzerna products.
My technique concerning the 3401, Menzerna products, and Hybrid pads - Auto Geek Online Auto Detailing Forum
Here is an article I put together on extracting the maximum performance from the 3401, Hybrid pads, and Menzerna products.
My technique concerning the 3401, Menzerna products, and Hybrid pads - Auto Geek Online Auto Detailing Forum
WhyteWizard
New member
I've found that a first cut with 400 on a rotary with a foamed wool pad will cut almost anything, even sandpaper scratch if I go above 2000, without leaving much swirl at all. I follow my first cut with 400 again but using the Makita BO6040 and an orange foam pad in forced rotation mode working the product till the shine really comes through then switch to random orbital mode for a final pass on the used up polish. I almost never have to follow up with 4000 and I do very high end work.
As far as 400 being aggressive is concerned, it is, but it's also very controllable. The abrasive is so fine that with light pressure against good paint and a small amount of product the cut is just enough to remove light defects but not fast enough to cut much paint. I'm not sure but I doubt most paint thickness gauges would even register the difference.
As a general rule, on my first visit, I cut each car I do with my rotary to get out all the scratches I think are safe to remove. After that, I don't use the rotary again, just the Makita BO6040 to remove the light scratches put in between details. If the car is so scratched up that it really needs a full cut again, it's not being maintained well and there's no point in perfecting something that's going to get trashed in short order anyway. No point in thinning the paint.
Robert
As far as 400 being aggressive is concerned, it is, but it's also very controllable. The abrasive is so fine that with light pressure against good paint and a small amount of product the cut is just enough to remove light defects but not fast enough to cut much paint. I'm not sure but I doubt most paint thickness gauges would even register the difference.
As a general rule, on my first visit, I cut each car I do with my rotary to get out all the scratches I think are safe to remove. After that, I don't use the rotary again, just the Makita BO6040 to remove the light scratches put in between details. If the car is so scratched up that it really needs a full cut again, it's not being maintained well and there's no point in perfecting something that's going to get trashed in short order anyway. No point in thinning the paint.
Robert
WhyteWizard
New member
While 4000 is the latest and greatest, it was developed for ceramic paint. I'm guessing the paint you're working on is softer so here's a counterintuitive tip: Be sure to have a good distribution of material across the whole surface of the pad. Press down harder and work the product to a deep shine before you wipe it off.
I'm glad you're not trying to polish with a black pad. IMHO, the black foam doesn't provide enough support for the abrasives to be of much use. Good for spreading wax and fillers, but not so much for really polishing.
Robert
I'm glad you're not trying to polish with a black pad. IMHO, the black foam doesn't provide enough support for the abrasives to be of much use. Good for spreading wax and fillers, but not so much for really polishing.
Robert
LawrenceSA
New member
Well I am an avid user of Menzerna products with the Flex 3401 and hybrid pads.
Here are my thoughts.
Firstly in terms of each of the Menz polishes they have a level of cut (rated from 1 to 10) and a level of gloss (rated from 1 to 10), as follows:
SF4500 2 / 10
SF4000 4 / 10
PF2500 5 / 7
PF400 9 / 7
They way I normally approach selecting a product is to conduct an initial test spot with your least aggressive combo - assuming in this case you use SF4500 with a finishing pad... like the black hybrid. If you have removed all the below surface defects you want to, then job done - paint should be defect free and at 10/10 in terms of gloss. If you need more cut, you could incrementally increase the cut of the pad only using the same polish....so say SF4500 / white hybrid.
If you still not getting enough cut, switch to SF4000/ black and then to SF4000 / white if the SF4000/black is not cutting it
Still not enough paint being removed (and thus the below surface defects with them) then step up to PF2500 / white hybrid, then PF2500 / orange
Then FG400 / Orange
FG400 / wool
Eventually you will do a test spot where all of the below surface defects are removed.... and depending on how aggressive you had to get, you will now face a decision about do you conduct a second follow up polish or leave the paint as is and call it a one step.... to my mind this decision will be influenced by things like if the customer paying for a 2 step and looking for 10/10 gloss or is 7/10 acceptable to them, the paint hardness/softness etc
If you had success with SF4500 or SF4000 in terms of cut, then the paint should be at maximum gloss (10/10) assuming your pad wasn't micromarring the paint. But if you had to say use PF2500 or FG400 then regardless of the pad you used, the paint will only be at 7/10 in terms of gloss. So you could then follow this with either SF4000 or SF4500 (both finish at the same level of gloss, but SF4500 cuts less paint in the process) to restore clarity to the paint.
There can never be a set approach to all vehicles so for me, I think it is ideal to have:
A finishing polish (SF4000 if you work on generally harder paints, SF4500 if predominantly softer paints)
A medium cut polish (PF2500)
An aggressive compound (FG400)
Then you get yourself a finishing pad, polishing pad and compounding pad - well many, not just one of each [so for example hybrids in blue wool, orange, white and black].
With this combo of pads/polishes you are able to adjust your level of cut and finish to suit the task at hand, and to date I have not come across a vehicle that I haven't been able to correct using these items.
Hope this helps a little
Here are my thoughts.
Firstly in terms of each of the Menz polishes they have a level of cut (rated from 1 to 10) and a level of gloss (rated from 1 to 10), as follows:
SF4500 2 / 10
SF4000 4 / 10
PF2500 5 / 7
PF400 9 / 7
They way I normally approach selecting a product is to conduct an initial test spot with your least aggressive combo - assuming in this case you use SF4500 with a finishing pad... like the black hybrid. If you have removed all the below surface defects you want to, then job done - paint should be defect free and at 10/10 in terms of gloss. If you need more cut, you could incrementally increase the cut of the pad only using the same polish....so say SF4500 / white hybrid.
If you still not getting enough cut, switch to SF4000/ black and then to SF4000 / white if the SF4000/black is not cutting it
Still not enough paint being removed (and thus the below surface defects with them) then step up to PF2500 / white hybrid, then PF2500 / orange
Then FG400 / Orange
FG400 / wool
Eventually you will do a test spot where all of the below surface defects are removed.... and depending on how aggressive you had to get, you will now face a decision about do you conduct a second follow up polish or leave the paint as is and call it a one step.... to my mind this decision will be influenced by things like if the customer paying for a 2 step and looking for 10/10 gloss or is 7/10 acceptable to them, the paint hardness/softness etc
If you had success with SF4500 or SF4000 in terms of cut, then the paint should be at maximum gloss (10/10) assuming your pad wasn't micromarring the paint. But if you had to say use PF2500 or FG400 then regardless of the pad you used, the paint will only be at 7/10 in terms of gloss. So you could then follow this with either SF4000 or SF4500 (both finish at the same level of gloss, but SF4500 cuts less paint in the process) to restore clarity to the paint.
There can never be a set approach to all vehicles so for me, I think it is ideal to have:
A finishing polish (SF4000 if you work on generally harder paints, SF4500 if predominantly softer paints)
A medium cut polish (PF2500)
An aggressive compound (FG400)
Then you get yourself a finishing pad, polishing pad and compounding pad - well many, not just one of each [so for example hybrids in blue wool, orange, white and black].
With this combo of pads/polishes you are able to adjust your level of cut and finish to suit the task at hand, and to date I have not come across a vehicle that I haven't been able to correct using these items.
Hope this helps a little
LawrenceSA
New member
I am not sure what you mean by reach 100%
It depends on what you are trying to achieve.... if you mean the removal of DEEP defects like swirls and scratches , then SF4000 may not have enough cut to remove enough paint to remove them....you may need to increase the cut.... if however you mean will SF4000 be able to remove the SHALLOW hazing or micromarring left behind after your initial polish (to remove swirls) then IME, yes.... it has removed the hazing left behind from FG400 and a blue wool hybrid pad for me on harder VAG paint.
Also, if you are using SF4000 for your final polish, you will want to do so with the LEAST aggressive pad you have so that the pad itself is not causing any micromarring.
For example you may find that on white car with hard clear, SF4000 and a white pad finishes down acceptable for you.
But use that combo on say a black car with soft paint, and now the hazing is noticeable and would require a softer pad (e.g. black) to ensure a perfect finish.