Meguiar's M105 Flashing Problems

T

timannnn

New member
Hey Guys and Gals,



First time poster but have been reading through these threads like crazy.



I wanted to ask you guys a question about meguiars m105 compound. I contacted meguiars CS and told them what type of car I had (2006 White GMC yukon) and asked them about polishing and finishing. I have detailed several cars in the past with my makita rotary but as a hobby or for friends. The condition of the yukon is fairly decent no major scratches, just the normal car wash markings (this is my wife's car). Some scratches a little deeper than others but you can't feel them with a fingernail.



They recommended their m105 with an 8000 pad. So yesterday I go to work on the car with a brand new 8000 pad and the m105 in hand (shaken for around 3 minutes thanks to fellow autopians recommendations). Treated the pad with QD before I started.



The major problem is the constant flashing of the product before it gets the job done. I have tried everything that I have read on here, apply 105 directly to panel, directly to pad, add QD to pad, put 4 pea sized drops to pad, clean pad with brush after every pass, and the 105 always flashes. I feel like it's taking me twice as long to get through the car.



What do you guys think? Should I be using a different pad? On the back of the bottle meguiars recommends the 5000 wool pad. But I think it's too aggressive for the type of correction I need. But not sure.



Any thoughts?
 
Ah, the dreaded 105 learning curve. You will *hate* this product at first, then you will love it to the point that it'll become your go-to product.



How I suggest learning how to use it (which is a bit different from how I *actually* use it):



Set your rotary speed to 1k. Apply four pea sized dots to a wool (I prefer PFW) pad. Put the pad on the paint, go straight to 1k rpm, and start moving the buffer head. DO NOT pre-spread the 105! I usually stop buffing into virgin territory at about the ten second mark. Then I go back over the area I buffed for a second pass. If time allows, I do a third.



This technique is certainly not "the Best" or "the only" but it should get you safely started with 105. You'll learn your own tricks as time goes on. And don't get discouraged. It's worth the effort to learn.
 
When I first reviewed M105, I noted the same problem. It dries up quickly and if you overwork M105 you are left with cement. I believe this is because M105 uses ultra fine abrasives to cut, but also uses very 'dry' water based lubricant to make it cut. Also of note, the abrasives in the polish do not break down in the traditional sense; they remain ultra fine and cut the paint like a chain gun, quickly.



If you are using M105 on a foam pad, I would recommend priming the pad per Kevin's recommendation (I use to use a mist of distilled water, but Kevin's method works better). Take about two quarter sized amounts of product and work the paste into the pad with your thumbs until the surface is completely saturated in product and the pours are completely filled. Squeeze the excess M105 out of the pad with a clean microfiber so it is perfectly primed but not over saturated (slightly damp to the touch).



With M105 I like to apply fresh product to the paint then pick up polish at speed. Do not attempt to spread the polish before working, just hit the ground working. M105 responds well to pressure, do not be afraid to apply a couple pounds to the head of the machine, and polish at 1200-1500 rpm, quickly covering ground. Work for about 10-15 seconds (until you notice the polish flashing) then stop. Wipe away residue and inspect. If you need to, go again. Work quickly... Overworking the product will result in an increase in marring with out much more cut. It is better to stop M105 early and reapply vs. stop late (since the abrasives do not breakdown the polish works differently).



With traditional polishes you have to find the sweet spot where the abrasives have broken down, removing their own traces. With M105 this isn't necessary. When in doubt, stop...



M105 is also sensitive to a clean pad. After each section I will clean the pad on the fly by pushing a microfiber against the spinning pad, working from the inside out. The abrasives are so fine in M105 that the paint removed from the car during the polishing is actually more aggressive the abrasive itself. Also excess paint and lubrication can cause the abrasives to cluster, increasing the marring left behind. Keep the pad clean, work fast, and enjoy the awesome results that M105 delivers on most paint jobs!



It should be noted that the NEW M105 is formulated to be wetter and less sensitive, but I haven't tried it yet.



Hope I helped!



Todd
 
timannnn said:
..I wanted to ask you guys a question about meguiars m105 compound. The major problem is the constant flashing of the product before it gets the job done....
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Maybe try working smaller areas at a time. I tend to work areas smaller than the usual 2' x 2' and maybe that's part of why I found M105 pretty user-friendly (somehow that product and I seem to have just *clicked* right off the bat :nixweiss ).



If the clear on your '06 Yukon is like that on my '04 one, M105 oughta be a pretty good choice for the initial correction. Wonder if you'd be happier using it with a random orbital/da type of polisher, it does great work for me that way, even on hard clear.



Oh, and Welcome to Autopia!
 
If you can't get the flashing right but want to proceed anyway, some guys here add a small amount of polish (I've seen optimum used) to the mix for a longer work time.
 
RZJZA80 said:
is it even worth it to try 105 with a PC?
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Oh, yeah! Works great IME both by PC and by hand. AFAIK I have the older version too.



Being a bit of a 1Z nut I resisted trying M105 for a long time...but having finally tried it I'm a believer, this stuff is incredible.



I did my M105 experimenting on a car that required 3M ECRC 05936/rotary/M7006 pad. *HARD* clear and deep defects. The M105/PC/4" yellow could do the work on that car, utterly amazed me. (No, it wasn't as *fast* as the aggressive rotary combo.)



I seriously cannot imagine a problem that M105 won't solve with the PC and a 4" pad...anything too serious for that combo will almost certainly be too deep to completely remove with any method (though with a very serious defect I would lean towards an initial 2,000-2,500 wetsanding first as it just offers *so* much control over what's going on).
 
Accumulator said:
Oh, yeah! Works great IME both by PC and by hand. AFAIK I have the older version too.



Being a bit of a 1Z nut I resisted trying M105 for a long time...but having finally tried it I'm a believer, this stuff is incredible.



I did my M105 experimenting on a car that required 3M ECRC 05936/rotary/M7006 pad. *HARD* clear and deep defects. The M105/PC/4" yellow could do the work on that car, utterly amazed me. (No, it wasn't as *fast* as the aggressive rotary combo.)



I seriously cannot imagine a problem that M105 won't solve with the PC and a 4" pad...anything too serious for that combo will almost certainly be too deep to completely remove with any method (though with a very serious defect I would lean towards an initial 2,000-2,500 wetsanding first as it just offers *so* much control over what's going on).
Click to expand...



thanks Accumulator for the response! Question: are you saying the PC/105 combo with yellow pad will remove 2K-2.5K wetsanding marks?
 
what is Flashing? I've tired m105 for the first time and its very hard to use. I've tried a 10 inch line on the hood and after i pick it up with rotary it dry very fast and cause rotary to grip and jump everywhere. I was using LC orange pad with it. what am i doing wrong?



when it dries it looks like there is a thin layer of clay or glue on the panel and its very hard to take out.
 
RZJZA80 said:
Question: are you saying the PC/105 combo with yellow pad will remove 2K-2.5K wetsanding marks?
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I haven't tried that specifically, but seeing as how I've removed those kind of sanding marks with other PC/small pad combos I'd *certainly* expect it to work.



Noting that IME only Meguiar's/Nikken and Mirka brand sanding media leave *uniform* finsihes without any nasty/random/deep "tracer" scratches....



The RIDS I was removing on my M3 with PC/M105/4" yellow was were worse (IMO) than 2K scratches, in fact I'd done some 2K sanding on other areas just do diminish those RIDS before compounding.



I suppose YMMV always applies, but *man* would I be surprised if it didn't work fine.



You could always up the ante a bit by using a 3.5" PFW pad; I used that (PC/3.5" PFW) with 1Z Pasta Intensiv and it took out 2K marks on the fairly hard clear of my '04 Yukon (and it did a lot of other pretty amazing correction too, actually gotta be a little careful). And M105 has pretty much replaced the 1Z because M105 is *so* much more effective.

bored7one4 said:
what is Flashing?
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It's what you're experiencing, but you're getting the "bad" version. Flashing means the carrying agents/solvents have evaporated/etc. leaving behind the solid stuff.



I suspect you're working too large an area and/or working it too long, but see what people with more experience (with that combo) say. Note that M105 is done quite fast. Using some water/QD to "revive" it and/or extend the work time might be worth trying, but be careful to keep your pad *VERY* clean if you try that with orange foam.
 
Just tried M105 for the first time today...



WOW, does it flash fast! Working time is, well, what working time?! There is defenitly a learning curve that made me frustrated the first 3 or 4 passes. Reading up on it here, really gave me a 'heads up' as to what to expect and how to deal with it. By the 5 try, I could say I got the hang of it, but man, I could see someone who didn't have a warning just say, F-it and give up bad mouthing the product.



As a compound, this is like a chain gun as TH0001 said. It cuts very fast and leaves a nice uniform finish using wool with really only minor marring and holograms, but that was more easily attributed to the pad. I was so impressed I tried a black pad @ 1000. Needless to say, it didn't finish down like 106ff LOL. I wasn't expecting it to, but just tried it to see what was up since I was blown away by the compounding. This was all on 2003 never polished Audi paint.
 
105 is a great compound, but its not for everyone. It works VERY fast and can be hard to get the hang of it. 105 works best and is easiest to use with wool pads. You can use it with foam, but its slightly harder to get the hang of.



Todd did a good job explaining how to use it correctly. You want to use a lot of product and apply it directly on the paint. Dont put it on the pad, you dont need to use a QD or prime the pad, and dont spread it.
 
Try the new M105 or the current M95 if you find the original M105 too difficult to master. They both offer essentially identical cut, but much more traditional working time and feel.
 
Lumadar said:
Try the new M105 or the current M95 if you find the original M105 too difficult to master. They both offer essentially identical cut, but much more traditional working time and feel.
Click to expand...



So its basically the same abrasive formula with different polishing oils for longer work time?
 
bored7one4 said:
what is Flashing?
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The term "flashing" is used by painters and body guys. It basically means the point at which the solvent (water or petroleum distillate) in a paint or polish evaporates.



When a polish "flashes off" it means the water or oils have dried up, leaving behind the mix of abrasives and fillers, etc. Some have complained that M105 flashes off too quickly to allow for adequate working time. Once you become accustomed to working with M105 it's really not an issue.
 
SoCalB6 said:
So its basically the same abrasive formula with different polishing oils for longer work time?
Click to expand...



Same/Similar type of abrasives, with a different look and feel. It would be more like working with M80 for example (in terms of familiarity, not cut).



M95 isn't intended to finish as well as M105, but sometimes I have a heck of a time telling a difference. The new M105 will be more like M95 in terms of how it feels and acts, but should cut and finish like it has.
 
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