M205 and Haze on Jet Black BMW

G

GBGT

New member
Hello everyone, I'm new to the forum as a poster, but I have utilized it many times for information and its truly a goldmine. I have a 2011 Jet Black BMW X5 diesel with 65,000 miles. It hasn't been polished leaving the dealership so as you can imagine its ready. I have been using M105 on a white pad and M205 on a black pad with a PC. Its done a pretty good job of removing the swirls, but when I look at the paint in the dark just using a xenon flashlight, the corrected portion looks swirl and hologram free but looks a hazy, milky, white compared to the uncorrected.



These are pictures under fluorescence. Corrected on left and uncorrected on right. I couldn't get any good photos with the xenon flashlight to show the milky hazy finish.



(Its somewhat difficult to understand because in the dark with the xenon, the left side looks like a milky cloudy white, and right side has swirls but looks like a blacker black.)



IMG_5318.JPG




IMG_5319.JPG




IMG_5320.JPG
 
You only see the haze on the corrected side when the lights are off and only using the xenon flashlight.
 
M105 CCS White speed 5 on PC

M205 CCS Black speed 5 then to 3 on PC



5-6 passes on both, duration less than 30 seconds.



I have also tried using M205 on the white pad but that didn't seem to do much
 
First off... if you've got a spare black pad (or finishing pad), you may be able to final polish using just the M105.



To accomplish this, mount the pad to the machine, and prime the pad thoroughly. Then, place the pad face onto a microfiber towel, and run the pad against the towel for 10-15 seconds. Push the pad firmly into the microfiber, and be careful that the towel doesn't wrap itself around the counterbalance assembly!



Next, drop the machine speed WAY down (you didn't mention which machine). The correct speed to use is one that allows the backing plate to rotate only a little while placed under normal pressure (normal would be the weight of the machine, and enough pressure placed upon it so that the pad is planted, but not squashed atop the paint). I generally start the machine on speed two and then dial in the speed until I see about a turn per second of the backing plate (mark the edge of the plate with a dot or line so you can verify the amount of rotation. Move the machine at about an inch per second.



Most times, the paint will be remarkably clear and mar-free after using M105. Make sure you stop occasionally to clean the pad. To clean the pad, run the face of the pad across a microfiber towel (as previously listed). Then, add a bit more M105 to the pad, run the face against a microfiber towel again (doing this evenly distributes the M105 and removes the excess).



Pretty similar process for M205; in fact... you can use the exact method prescribed for M105. Sometimes, M205 finishes out a bit better if the pad is not primed first, but this is rare.



The key to final polishing with these two liquids is controlling the amount of buffing liquid that is on the pad. The key to polishing with any liquid is removing the spent abrasive and abraded paint residue from the pad. This is why I ask you to clean the pad by running it against a microfiber towel, then prime the pad with more liquid, then remove the excess. Removing the excess also removes paint residue from the pad, which can cause micro-marring on its own.



Let me know if this is confusing, or if it helps.
 
PC7346SP from Lowes.



The finish I'm getting has no holograms whatsoever, its just a milky look when under a flashlight. There just isn't good clarity. I have heard this is a common issue on BMW Jet Black.
 
Call them holograms, a milky look, micro-marring... whatever you'd like. In the end, they are simply scratches caused by abrasion of some sort. As to "soft" or "hard" paints... I tend to look at them as abrading and loading the pad quickly or slowly. Then, the abraded residue of some paint types seem to cause more scratching than others.



I hope you'll give the outlined procedures a whirl. If you do, let me know how things turn out.
 
I've had the same "milky" situation many times before, of course always on black, and only two things have helped me personally: either re-polish with 205 and a softer pad OR hit it with some Klasse AIO after you polish. Of course I'm sure other products can be substituted, that's just what I chose to try. For me, the milky look seemed to be that the polished didn't completely wipe off or something, and only by re-polishing it or "cleaning" it off did it work correctly. Try Kevin's methods and if it doesn't work for you, try just cleaning the paint off, it could just be residue like it was for me.
 
Morning - I am just going to say that it is not a common issue as far as the paint is concerned. That black is the prettiest black when polished. Most likely user error. After all it is one of the finickiest paint around. Keep practicing. And of course always finish with a very soft pad.



GBGT said:
PC7346SP from Lowes.



The finish I'm getting has no holograms whatsoever, its just a milky look when under a flashlight. There just isn't good clarity. I have heard this is a common issue on BMW Jet Black.
Click to expand...
 
There's no way this could just be some residue/artifacts/issue from the polishing oils, right? As in, the proper steps were taken to clean the paint post-M205 (and I don't mean IPA).



This just sounds *so* much like the effect I get with M205 if I don't clean up adequately afterwards...
 
Accumulator said:
There's no way this could just be some residue/artifacts/issue from the polishing oils, right? As in, the proper steps were taken to clean the paint post-M205 (and I don't mean IPA).



This just sounds *so* much like the effect I get with M205 if I don't clean up adequately afterwards...
Click to expand...



Accumulator, not sure if you had a "difficult" batch of M205 or what, but I used some just the other day, and it left a finish as nice as the HD Uno Polish did, which is a fantastic polish. I will agree that sometimes M205 leaves a bit of haze, but I'm running into that issue less and less using the process outlined above.
 
Kevin Brown said:
Accumulator, not sure if you had a "difficult" batch of M205 or what, but I used some just the other day, and it left a finish as nice as the HD Uno Polish did, which is a fantastic polish. I will agree that sometimes M205 leaves a bit of haze, but I'm running into that issue less and less using the process outlined above.
Click to expand...





The issue I was referring to was a matter of oils that gave a "something's not quite right" apearance under certain lighting. Tha actual *finish* was OK hazing-wise, but I couldn't really determine that until I went through a big hassle getting the paint truly "clean".



Different issue from something like a finish that could be improved a little by burnishing with a different product, but it did look just like that in many respects.



Just tossing the idea out there as I sometimes suspect people might underestimate how hard it can be to get all those TSO out of "sticky paint".
 
Are you able to eliminate the oily residue by simply applying a wax or sealant of some sort? Seems that the solvents (water or petro-based) would displace a majority (if not all) of the residue.



I suppose that the application method (hand or machine application) might make a bit of a difference. If you're using a very gentle touch (hand waxing for instance), there might not be ample agitation to lift or emulsify the residue.
 
Accumulator said:
There's no way this could just be some residue/artifacts/issue from the polishing oils, right? As in, the proper steps were taken to clean the paint post-M205 (and I don't mean IPA).



This just sounds *so* much like the effect I get with M205 if I don't clean up adequately afterwards...
Click to expand...



What do you mean exactly? I did wipe it with IPA but thats it.



As far as the other responses are concerned I agree, I'm sure it is user error. I am going to give Kevin Brown's advice a try today.



Also is it possible I just need to follow the M205 up with something like 85RD or 3M Ultrafina?
 
GBGT said:
What do you mean exactly? I did wipe it with IPA but thats it.



As far as the other responses are concerned I agree, I'm sure it is user error. I am going to give Kevin Brown's advice a try today.



Also is it possible I just need to follow the M205 up with something like 85RD or 3M Ultrafina?
Click to expand...



Try 85rd it should clear it up 205 leaves faint micro-marring on my red vette 85rd clears it up. Top polish in my opinion.
 
GBGT said:
What do you mean exactly? I did wipe it with IPA but thats it. ..
Click to expand...



In my case, the M205's oils left it looking like *very faint* holograms under certain lighting conditions. It would've been easy to think that it needed more/better finish polishing. I've never had great luck with IPA stripping those oils, have to use something like TOL's PrepWash and even that can take more than one try.





Also is it possible I just need to follow the M205 up with something like 85RD or 3M Ultrafina?
Click to expand...



I've had Menzerna improve upon the finish that M205 left. Still had to clean off the M205 oils though ;)
 
Kevin Brown said:
First off... if you've got a spare black pad (or finishing pad), you may be able to final polish using just the M105.



To accomplish this, mount the pad to the machine, and prime the pad thoroughly. Then, place the pad face onto a microfiber towel, and run the pad against the towel for 10-15 seconds. Push the pad firmly into the microfiber, and be careful that the towel doesn't wrap itself around the counterbalance assembly!



Next, drop the machine speed WAY down (you didn't mention which machine). The correct speed to use is one that allows the backing plate to rotate only a little while placed under normal pressure (normal would be the weight of the machine, and enough pressure placed upon it so that the pad is planted, but not squashed atop the paint). I generally start the machine on speed two and then dial in the speed until I see about a turn per second of the backing plate (mark the edge of the plate with a dot or line so you can verify the amount of rotation. Move the machine at about an inch per second.



Most times, the paint will be remarkably clear and mar-free after using M105. Make sure you stop occasionally to clean the pad. To clean the pad, run the face of the pad across a microfiber towel (as previously listed). Then, add a bit more M105 to the pad, run the face against a microfiber towel again (doing this evenly distributes the M105 and removes the excess).



Pretty similar process for M205; in fact... you can use the exact method prescribed for M105. Sometimes, M205 finishes out a bit better if the pad is not primed first, but this is rare.



The key to final polishing with these two liquids is controlling the amount of buffing liquid that is on the pad. The key to polishing with any liquid is removing the spent abrasive and abraded paint residue from the pad. This is why I ask you to clean the pad by running it against a microfiber towel, then prime the pad with more liquid, then remove the excess. Removing the excess also removes paint residue from the pad, which can cause micro-marring on its own.



Let me know if this is confusing, or if it helps.
Click to expand...



Quick question Kevin, when your saying to clean the pad with a MF towel then add some more 105 and clean it again after that are you then adding more 105 for your next working section?
 
Not usually... at the most perhaps a few pencil eraser sized drops. Usually, there's enough buffing liquid residing on the pad to make short work of haziness.
 
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