Let's hear from the "Hacks"

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I was just reading another thread where a new car owner took his car to a detail shop and was dissatisfied with the services that he received. Then the thread went on the usual course of "That guy is a hack", and "let's recommend an Autopian-Level detailer".



Disclaimer - The following is not directed at that particular individual, the detail shop that he used, or anyone who posted in that thread. It's a general question/statement based on the dozens of similar threads that I've seen on this forum over the years.



First of all, I want to quickly vent my frustration at the frequent use of "Autopian Level Detailer". There seems to be this belief that Autopia members are the cream of the crop when it comes to detailing. However, let's remember that membership only requires a 5 second google search and a free anonymous membership.



I'm posting this because I want to hear from the so-called "hacks" out there. I truly believe that there are two sides to every story and for every customer who says "I paid for a detail but my car still has swirls", there is a detailer who says "He only paid for a 1 step polish and he wanted the car back in two hours".



I don't think enough consumers understand enough about detailing to really know that "Perfection" and "near-perfection" have completely different price tags and lead times.



Detailers, like any other profession, need to turn a profit to maintain their business and support their families. Unfortunately having an attitude of "the customer is always right" often costs money, and the reality is that you can't please every single customer 100%.



There are a lot of great detailers on this board, but I'm sure every one of you has some customer that you just couldn't please, or simply expected too much for too low a price.



I'm really interested to hear from anyone who has been called a "hack" and i want to know your side of the story.
 
I think I have been called a hack ...



I pursue a model that is not what some / many call detailing. But I do, and the lack of industry standards allows me to.



I do advocate that there should be definitions of distinction.



I pursue a definition I call Maintenance and Prevention Detailing. It is delivered with a customer benefit of CONVENIENCE. It looks to take a vehicle and put a polish and protection on, with a good solid interior cleaning.



Team of 2 can and should achieve completion well under 2 hours, some services in 1 hour.



We do spend time managing customer expectations that they would come in and spend $179 to have swirls removed.



On the other hand, we educate the customer as to the definition of Reconditioning Detailing. And in some cases, perform some of those services in house, use a 3rd party, or a referral to those that have that level of verified experience.



I do not think either one is good or bad, provided the customer's expectations are managed.



I also draw a line and do not "Chase a scratch". I do not seek perfection unless the customer is prepared to pay for such "chasing of perfection".



I think there needs to be a distinction drawn for an "Autopian". I am concerned when I am called out, not for being called out, or by who, but why. To say an "Autopian" is one who spends more than one day on the vehicle fuels my claims that this is a hobby or they are an enthusiast, not running as a professional for profit business. Unless one can verify a $1,200 ticket average, I question the business acumen, not the quality of end result. That is where I challenge the "professionalism", as getting $400, let's say for a 2 day job is more of an enthusiast.



In my opinion.



-jim
 
LOL umm you want people to fess to being a "Hack" LOL I can see this going south in a hurry..



How about you rephrase the question to something like "What do you consider to be the qualifications of a "Pro" detailer?" Might be a little more receptive.
 
I've never been called a hack but I also know that my detailing experience is only less than 2 years so I also don't claim to be a 'pro' or an 'Autopian'. I do this on the side mostly for people I know (co-workers, friends, neighbors, family, referal from any of the above).



I've never charged more than $200 but never less than $75. This range was anything from a 2 step polish, LSP, full interior...you know the works. Then the lower end for a 1 step, or maybe a refresh from repeat customer, engine clean with a refresh etc..



I think I'm charging a fair amount for the work I put in but realize I could charge more IF I were in fact an 'Autopian' or had these years of experience that a lot of you guys have. I don't make unrealistic promises to anyone and I don't claim to be anything that I'm not.



Most of my customers think I know everything about detailing and I humbly explain that knowing products and processes doesn't mean I know anything more someone willing to research about it. The hands on experience and experiments is what really makes you better right? I make sure when they get their automobile back that we look closely at everything. I point out RDS, swirls both before and after.



You know what? I think this DOES make me an Autopian! I'm not a Certified Master Detailer but I don't claim to be.
 
I would agree with some of the points raised in this thread. While I have loads of respect for members who post 5 day, 500 picture, restorations....I have become disillusioned with the idea that by posting such threads is the only way to be seen as a master detailer.



The amount of time such a post and the process to prepare for one is not something I care to spend time on when restoring cars. I take before, 50/50s, and afters and use them for my own archives and for my client car calendars etc. BUt for someone like Scottwax to not get mentioned in that latest Autoweek article because he no longer posts mega threads of his work is really a shame.



I spent 10 hours on the engine and interior, 18 hours Saturday of a 2006 S80 Volvo (paint only- ok I also cleaned the wheels and nourished the tires and trim), but I didn't take any pictures or post a super dooper thread. The owner welled up with joyful tears. Since no one on Autopia sees it or reads about it, am I a hack without recognition? Maybe, but I am not worried about it. The way I look at it, the owner got his restoration and I got paid for the work I did. I was proud of it and moved on to the next job.
 
Great post!



I've never been called a hack. However, I know some people on these forums don't like the fact that I don't do a 100% correction on every detail. I give the customer what they want, plain and simple. If the customer wants their vehicle to shine for $100 and washes it weekly at the local tunnel wash, I'll explain the one step process and why the tunnel wash is bad but still give them what they want, a cheap detail that will make their car look better than it did before they left. I'd consider a detailer a hack if the customer specifically said they wanted the swirls removed and not filled and they just got a one step with fillers. Or a hack if the car looked worse than it did going in.
 
Relaited said:
To say an "Autopian" is one who spends more than one day on the vehicle fuels my claims that this is a hobby or they are an enthusiast, not running as a professional for profit business. Unless one can verify a $1,200 ticket average, I question the business acumen, not the quality of end result. That is where I challenge the "professionalism", as getting $400, let's say for a 2 day job is more of an enthusiast.
Click to expand...



There is room for everybody in this business, from the hacks to the 5 day detailers. There is clearly a market at both ends. I just don't get why you challenge the "professionalism" of some of the high-end guys who clearly have valid businesses doing that. If you don't think there is a business saving high-end cars from a repaint, then you are just dismissing guys like RickRack, Rydawg, ebpcivicsi, gmblack3a, the shop were Totolandmach works, and I'm sure many others I've missed.
 
Jakerooni said:
LOL umm you want people to fess to being a "Hack" LOL I can see this going south in a hurry..



How about you rephrase the question to something like "What do you consider to be the qualifications of a "Pro" detailer?" Might be a little more receptive.
Click to expand...



I'm not asking anyone to "fess up to being a hack".



I'm trying to find the good detailers who have been accused by ignorant and/or irate customers.



The world is smaller than you think and accusations like that do get around. Today's post in the "Car Detailing" forum is a good example. Here we have a guy who was unhappy with the service that he received, and puts up a post calling the detailer an "Idiot".



Well it's likely that "Idiot" happens to be a member here. And it's likely that he actually does know a thing or two about detailing. So I just want to hear the other side of the story, because it does sound like the customer got what he paid for.



Again, I didn't post this thread to attack the 350z owner who posted today. Or to discredit anyone who claims to be unhappy with their service. I have just made the generic observation that alot of people are quick to call out the "hacks" when they don't really understand the business model and what it takes to provide top quality service profitably.



If you don't like this thread, don't post. But there are two sides to every coin, and if you want to vent about an experience with a particular customer I would love to hear it.
 
People need to understand that they get what they pay for. I always explain to customers what they are paying for in my packages. Some still manage to complain that paint hasn't been corrected, yet they didn't want to pay for it, so that service wasn't completed. That's what always get me. Don't complain if you didn't order the service and wanted to cheap out on the detail people!
 
Well if that's the case then I do have a story of the sorts. I might have shared it before Not really sure.



But it was 2 summers ago. I had an older gentleman come in saying he wanted his trucked cleaned up because he was trading it in that afternoon and didn't want to get hit with a clean up fee. (lease turn in). I showed him through the packages. After looking over everything he insisted on the wash wax and vac package. I informed him that after looking at the truck I thought a basic detail package was better suited to his needs. (carpets were a mess) He said no he just wanted the wash wax and vac. So we did it... He comes back to pick up the truck seemed happy and took it home. Then about an hour later he called me up and was p*ssed because there were still swirls on the paint and stains in the carpet. (apparently he showed his neighbor that pointed this all out to him)



I asked him if remembered what packaged he insisted on. I asked is it washed? - Yep is it waxed? - yep did we vacuum the carpets? - yes but they are still stained up. So I inform him this was exactly why I recommended the actual detailing package I did to take care of that stuff. I said you paid us $35 for this service and you're wanting a $125 service for the $35?? Then I told him to bring it on back I would personally hit with the carpet extractor to get this taken care of better... His response... I can't I already turned the truck in and got a new car. I just want my money back. In which I said I'll have it here waiting for you and sorry about your experience. ($35 isn't enough for me to worry about if it keeps him happy enough to not go around blasting we were hacks because he got a lesser service than needed to get the results he was actaully after)



So Yea I can relate to that aspect of the whole "Hack" therory I guess.
 
^^^^^ hahaha, sorry jake, but that flat out sucks!!!



its like that commercial on the radio

"so you ordered a double, paid for a double, got a double, and you are upset you didnt get a triple?"



hahaha
 
Setec Astronomy said:
There is room for everybody in this business, from the hacks to the 5 day detailers. There is clearly a market at both ends. I just don't get why you challenge the "professionalism" of some of the high-end guys who clearly have valid businesses doing that. If you don't think there is a business saving high-end cars from a repaint, then you are just dismissing guys like RickRack, Rydawg, ebpcivicsi, gmblack3a, the shop were Totolandmach works, and I'm sure many others I've missed.
Click to expand...



Thanks buddy!



You are right, there are some of us who work on cars for days to weeks making them perfect. We are a legal business that specializes in restoring paint to it's fullest degree and we gaurantee our work too. We do not advertise and we have no business sign up yet neither . Rick and I are a 100% word of mouth business and are fully booked throughout the summer.



We are hoping for cancellations so we can have a few days off.;)
 
Listening to these stories is the reason why I personally do not do the budget jobs.



If someone is looking to only spend under a few hundred dollars for paint correction or want it back the same day, then they should not complain. I think some customers have no idea what it really takes to make some paints perfect.



I feel bad for a lot of detailers here that get stuck with a cheap customer.
 
rydawg said:
Thanks buddy!



You are right, there are some of us who work on cars for days to weeks making them perfect. We are a legal business that specializes in restoring paint to it's fullest degree and we gaurantee our work too. We do not advertise and we have no business sign up yet neither . Rick and I are a 100% word of mouth business and are fully booked throughout the summer.



We are hoping for cancellations so we can have a few days off.;)
Click to expand...



Off topic-ish, but this is my dream goal for my own business (even if it ends up not being detailing). I have a website but have not really given it out. I have no business cards, and not too much business, but I find satisfaction in getting new customers because "so and so" told them about me, versus me selling my "product."
 
[quote name='Jakerooni']I asked him if remembered what packaged he insisted on. I asked is it washed? - Yep is it waxed? - yep did we vacuum the carpets? - yes but they are still stained up. So I inform him this was exactly why I recommended the actual detailing package I did to take care of that stuff. I said you paid us $35 for this service and you're wanting a $125 service for the $35?? Then I told him to bring it on back I would personally hit with the carpet extractor to get this taken care of better... His response... I can't I already turned the truck in and got a new car. I just want my money back. In which I said I'll have it here waiting for you and sorry about your experience. ($35 isn't enough for me to worry about if it keeps him happy enough to not go around blasting we were hacks because he got a lesser service than needed to get the results he was actaully after)

QUOTE]

That sux for you Jake. You had full right to tell him to get lost but you gave his $35 back. My hat's off to you. You went above and beyond being professional. Hopefully he atleast tells his neighbor about how you corrected a potentially bad experience for him.
 
That was actually the incident that made me double think my whole process of educating the customer. This was obviously a customer that wasn't educated in what it was we actaully do. Even after explaining what it was that I thought would be needed he obviously still didn't get it. Although he was happy when he picked it up. It was only after his neighbor came over and pointed out all the "Issues" still. Which in my mind just tells me they have a "1 uping each other" thing going on. I can just see the conversation of him bragging about good his "Detailed" truck looked. I found it funny that I got the call after he already turned the truck in so there was no possible way for me to correct it anyways. But like I said $35 just isn't worth it to me to risk it. Even if I was in the right or not. But it opened my eye. It's also why my site has more information than I've seen on most other sites just so people can understand why it is we charge more than others in the area. Seems to work for me.
 
Vintage said:
Hopefully he atleast tells his neighbor about how you corrected a potentially bad experience for him.
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Doubtful,



I'll bet anything he went and told his neighbor how you tried to screw him and how he "straightened out that crooked detailer"



Which is exactly why I personally WOULDN'T give him his money back. Regardless of why you actually did it, from his perspective it looks like you're admitting guilt. And in a business that relies so heavily on word-of-mouth advertising, that might be kind of dangerous.
 
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