lets get this right

J

jason(england)

New member
Iam reading more and more posts about not washing or polishing new paint some say 30 plus days .
My family owns a large body shop and in the last couple of years we have switched over to the Du pont waterbased paint system .
Im reading posts on gassing ,curing etc dont do this or that etc.
I called into today to ask a few questions on this subject they had heard nothing on gassing /cure times the paint is baked in the oven once its out its good to go we have to wash customers vehicles before they leave the shop for dust etc.
Also the paint shop guys will have to polish with rotay machines from time to time for what ever reason if the paint was soft as some of you are being lead to believe how could we deliver customer satisfaction?.
Again if the paint was uncured and you needed to flat and polish how could you?
Its not my intention to offend any one or damage any egos here im as fussy as the next guy probably also I have the utmost respect for detail city and its members .
I just wanted to open this subject up as its something I noticed and it didnt sound right its also interesting to read that we need to upkeep the oils in our paint jobs ? why ?.
I will probably get gunned down on this but I await your thoughts guys.

All the best .
JAY :cheers:
 
No flames from me. I appreciate the info - automative paint is very confusing, so it's good to get some solid info on at least one brand (dupont, in this case), thanks.
 
It doesn't matter what kind of paint is used or who paints the car. If the shop tells you to wait 30 days before washing or waxing the paint, then you better follow their directions. Regardless of how the paint should behave, the fact remains that if something goes wrong then they will just blame you for waxing it too early and you will void any limited warranty their work includes. If following directions is so hard to do, then ignore what they suggest and hope they didn't do something wrong and they don't blame you for it.

its also interesting to read that we need to upkeep the oils in our paint jobs
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Eh...? Where are you reading that at? I don't remember reading that here anywhere. I could be wrong, but could you show me where that is?
 
I dont know why your paint shops in the US are saying this to there customers ?.
Put it like this if your car had a new front end replaced front panels bonnett wings etc or any significant repair carried out the car would be subjected to body shop dust the car would get finger marks when they fit it back up rust proofing is sprayed around etc etc .
You cant hand the vehicle back in this condition ,all shops wash them before they leave .
Take my point on board with the rotary polishing too as for the oils in the paint I look at another detail site which im sure you heard of it could have been there in the mean time I will try and find out who wrote that article.
Regards.
Jay
 
Not all shops wash the car before it leaves. I have never had a shop wash my car before returning it to me. Maybe that is how they do things in the UK, but it isn't a standardized practice across the globe yet.

This is just the way warranties work in the USA. If I buy a stapler from an office supply store and I tell them that I intend to hammer nails with it and they say that will be fine, then I can legally take action if that stapler doesn't do what they said it would do. Most likely it would just entail returning the stapler for a refund, but legally I could force that refund. Likewise, if a shop tells you not to wax or polish the car for 30 days and you do anyway, then any damage that occurs in that 30 day timeframe will be presumed the fault of the owner and not the fault of the shop that did the work. It would be a legal battle to get them to redo the job at that point. I'm just telling you what I know. I have legal training and I have had experience in warranty battles. If you do anything other than what the shop has printed on your receipt (which usually includes the instructions for what you can and cannot do to the paint within a certian number of days) then you void any warranty of their work. Likely nothing bad will happen if the paint job is quality, but I'm just saying... you run that risk if you choose to ignore paint shop instructions.
 
I do agree you can wash and polish but not wax or seal. My cars have all been washed priot to me getting them back and washed once a week for 3 months before I waxed it.
 
im starting to wonder if in the US your as forward with water based systems as we are here?.
Im familiar with warrantys and the legals too I ran a ford dealership service dept I hear where your coming from .
Next time im in all try to get more global information and report back .
Regards .
Jay.
 
jason(england) said:
im starting to wonder if in the US your as forward with water based systems as we are here?.
Im familiar with warrantys and the legals too I ran a ford dealership service dept I hear where your coming from .
Next time im in all try to get more global information and report back .
Regards .
Jay.
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From the looks of a lot of the cars from the big three they use paint brushes on the cars to paint them. :boxing:
 
I think waiting is more to insure that the bodyshop doesnt tell someone to go ahead when the paint could still be minutly soft after baking. If the customer buffed the car incorrectly it may do damage and then the customer would come back complainingto the bodyshop. Its a smart way to give a little leway IMO.
 
That is only assuming the paint is baked at all. I know for a fact that none of the paint work I have had done at a body shop has been baked.
 
Most shops don't bake the paint. The local Dupont system here says they were told not to, since a top layer of cured paint can develop over a lower layer of slowly curing paint. He never uses his baking equipment.

Washing is fine, a good body shop should do it. And there are "body shop safe" detailing products without silicone.
 
New cars are OK to wash and wax if the car is repaired then you need the cure time. Picked up my 2005 C6 and went home washed clayed and zainoed the car the same day. that was a year ago.

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I have never heard of not being able to wash a car after body repair and painting. Many aftermarket and custom paint work 15k and up are wet sanded and polished after each coat of clear. Washing and polishing should have no effect if done properly and body shop safe (no wax or sealants) used. The time frame would vary from the type and quality of the paint and the process, whether baked or not. I recently had a long discussion with a painter who is using a new Sikkens water-based paint system and as far as he was concerned, the paint was not going to out-gas and was as hard as a factory paint when it left his shop. He said his customers could wash, wax or do what ever they would normally do. DuPont, PPG, Sherman Williams and others may have their own pre-requisites to keep their warranties intact and some body shop owner still live in the single stage era. I would certainly listen to what the body shop owner says, as he is the one standing behind the work, but washing should not be a problem. 3cents :horse:
 
I know nothing about paint construction, but on the show "Overhaulin'" Chip Foos and his boys wash and polish those cars within in hours. I have been led to believe that he knows something about paint.
 
Fresh paint needs to "outgas." That is the solvents the 'carry' the paint while in a liquid form need to fully evaporate before any sealing of the paint should be done. If the paint is sealed too soon, the solvents can't evaporate and the paint remains soft longer.

PEI Detail, I can see your local guy's point, but that makes sense if he considers baking to mean sit the car in higher heat for a short time. In that case, the heat might not reach the "inner" paint before the outer layer cures. But if the car is in a lower heat for a longer period of time, all the paint should be able to take advantage of the heat curing...it's like cooking. If you put a roast in the oven at too high a temp, you will burn the outside while leaving the inside raw.
 
Don said:
Fresh paint needs to "outgas." That is the solvents the 'carry' the paint while in a liquid form need to fully evaporate before any sealing of the paint should be done. If the paint is sealed too soon, the solvents can't evaporate and the paint remains soft longer.

PEI Detail, I can see your local guy's point, but that makes sense if he considers baking to mean sit the car in higher heat for a short time. In that case, the heat might not reach the "inner" paint before the outer layer cures. But if the car is in a lower heat for a longer period of time, all the paint should be able to take advantage of the heat curing...it's like cooking. If you put a roast in the oven at too high a temp, you will burn the outside while leaving the inside raw.
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Not all paints are solvent based, but you are absolutely right. He's a DuPont guy, and from what I understand of their base/clear and urethane enamel systems, they are designed to work with the right solvent mix at room temperature, but aren't touched for a long time. Here, real estate was cheap when all the shops set up, so drying time isn't an issue.

My LSP isn't usually a wax or polish, but I work in the clear coat. My system requires a 12 hour initial cure time, and 24 hours before it is washed, and then only with a very soft, clean cloth. I don't recommend a sealant or wax or polish system for a month, but because of clear coat sensitivity, not because of outgasing (obviously). That said, I've clay barred after a week and did a heavy buffing without a problem.
 
I think that it is best to follow the advice from the shop that a worked on the car.
With the number of different manufacturers and types of paint, there is no one definative answer.

I would even venture to say "where" the work was done would have an effect.
We have different times before a wax or sealant would haze over because of tempeture and humidity, so why wouldn't paint have a different cure time depending on what part of the country (or world for that matter) you are located?
Also what was the curing process? Was is an air dry, UV lamps, IR lamps, I am sure that all of these things will have an effect on the final cure time.

JMHO
"J"
 
PEI Detail said:
Not all paints are solvent based, but you are absolutely right.
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I was also referring to the water-based paint as in their case, water is the solvent. Some of the (relatively) newer paints are also air-cure instead of heat-cure, and set up just as well as any baked enamel finish.
 
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