klasse SG removal technique

B

breakneckvtec

New member
I used to use SG exclusively and liked it alot. I am thinking of going back to it. The first time I used it was horribly difficult to remove. I got a tip from an autopian to apply it, let stand for an hour and then wash the car to remove the excess. I worried about the effectiveness and the impact on durability. I remember it working really well and did not notice an impact to the longevity of it.



Thoughts on this?



My thought was that after bonding to the paint all I am washing off is the excess so all should be well, but wanted to see others thoughts on this as well. Thanks.
 
I have applied SG before but got caught by surprise rainstorm. I let it sit unwiped overnight then just washed it the following day with no ill effects. I usually wait the 12 hours on the first coat then just do WOWO on the following ones.
 
A warm and damp microfibre towel and a QD mix of Klasse and water will make it really easy
 
Thanks for your input. That sounds like a good way of doing it. I guess the idea here is that if you need some qd, or other method of removing SG which most do then a light wash to remove the excess shouldnt impact its effectiveness.



Man, its been a while since I used it but I remember 6+ months of protection after I got about 5 layers on using this method. I liked it because to me a quick was is better than buffing the whole car out. Just was wondering if anyone thought this impacted the application of the SG. Car beaded like heck so my guess was not at all.:nixweiss
 
If you have a PC, the following has worked well for me:



1. Apply SG to the entire car and let it sit over night in a garage or protected environment

2. Put a MF bonnet on a foam polishing pad, and attach to the PC.

3. Go over the entire car with the PC. One bonnet does my entire M3.

4. Touch up the parts that the PC could not reach with a dry MF

5. Give the car a good once-over with your fav QD & MF to remove any residue

Done
 
Forgive my ignorance... I'm new to this. I've researched alot and decided to go the Klasse way. The pic in my avatar is actually after AIO but before 3 layers of SG. I decided to go with the Klasse because of its ease of use. Many detailers have said SG should give a solid 4-6 months with just wipe on wipe off. It was the easiest application I've ever done.



If you are referring to a "different" method of applying Klasse, it sounds interesting, but it better give me better protection or longer protection and a much better shine for the trouble it sounds like.



The way I was instructed was to wipe on and wipe immediately off. I was told the multiple coats just ensure coverage. I went for 3 coats because it was so easy. I've had sealants dry on the car and be impossible to remove. That's no fun. If its fun for you, keep doing it. To each their own. If you want a great shine and awesome protection... Wipe on, wipe off.



As for beading, yeah it beads when it rains. What I REALLY like is the way it sheets. After I'm done rinsing, I'll take the head of the hose(no spray nossle attached) and just let the water flow over the car. The water actually flies off the car leaving only a few scattered beads of water to remove with a waffle weave.



Again, if you were discussing this new Klasse removal technique, sorry to be a bummer. I just couldn't imagine it being any shinier or easier to apply and remove. If it aint broke...
 
Nothings "broke"

I got this tip for removal from an autopian I trust, and from what I remember it works and works well. Thinking about it now after using other sealants where I use the traditional buff to remove this just seems odd.



I know WOWO is popular method to use.



FOR ME, its less hassle to wash the car than to go around buffing my arms off. I noticed no less shine, protection or anything compared to WOWO method. I am just curious as to what others thought, or if someone could think of a reason why this in fact works.
 
im with you break, i dont have the time to play patchwork panels on my own car to test durability when we are talking 6-9 months. i know the klasse twins are childs play to remove wowo, i also know they can somewhat be a pain if applied to thick.



sometimes i have to question methods that make use a brainless activity. i would have to say allowing the product proper dry time increases durability and by that amount of time removal is irrelavent. im not saying you can't get the same shine but wowo isnt even the directions on the bottle for cryin outloud lol.
 
I've used the twins for quite a while in the past and found two techniques for the easy removal of SG, both have been mentioned with variations:

wowo, and the damp method. Instead of a final wash, I would mist the cured SG with ice cold distilled water in a mister and buff with a MF. The ice cold misting was like a spit shine.

I couldn't see any improvement in gloss/shine after 3 coats either.

-John C.
 
WOWO is always debated it seems because a lot of people will tell you that just wiping on and off does not allow the sealant proper bonding/drying time, and durability will suffer. I personally use a sealant that's not a pain in the butt dinosaur product, and regardless of thickness or drying time, it buffs off as easily as carnauba with a mf..
 
As I stated originally, I wasn't sure if you were discussing a "different" technique or looking for a technique to remove SG. I'm EXTREMELY new to this so any "different" techniques are not only acceptable, but encouraged. I spent alot of time reading before trying anything. If someone has a better method, I'd love to hear about it.



I've previously read this:
I've used the method you outlined (one wet towel, one dry towel) and did not have success with it. The problem with it stems from introducing moisture to the SG before it has had time to fully cure (this takes at least 24 hrs). My SG, when using this method, became cloudy and oily. I would not recommend it based on my experience. as for letting SG sit for 20 minutes, again I disagree with this. the longer SG sits on the paint, the harder it is to remove. I've also used this method numerous times and am not fond of it. The SG was like glue. Very hard to remove. The best time to remove SG is once it has flashed. For SG this flashing occurs immediately after application, hence why I recommend the 'wipe on wipe off' method above.
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I give credit where credit is due because without that thread I'd either be marring my new car or not detailing it at all(I went 18 months without washing a car). I don't know if that was the poster's opinion(about water being introduced to the SG) or if that is fact. I've been detailing for about 2 MONTHS and never even had an interest in washing a car before Thanksgiving.



If that information is incorrect, please let me know cause anything I can try that would increase the appearance of my new car I'd be happy to hear about, especially with Klasse. I was torn between the Klasse and Zaino and ended up with Klasse. The spritzing with cold distilled water sounds interesting, but goes against the introducing moisture to SG before curing. I have about 3-4 months before I'll reapply so I have time to decide on the method of application/removal. Next time, I plan on applying AIO with a PC and SG by hand.



The thread was titled SG removal technique. I've been doing this for 2 months. I did not intend to come off like I was telling you what to do. I probably should have simply asked if anyone else found water causing a problem with SG. As for the ease of washing off, I dry every time I wash(water down here sucks) To wash the car after SG application would mean filling a bucket with soap, wetting the car, washing the car and drying the car. This seems alot more time consuming and difficult to do than simply WOWO. I probably should have assumed you knew what you were doing rather than asking for help and instead asked if you felt washing off provided a better shine or better protection thus giving the incentive for more work. Seems like i ruffled feathers. It was not my intend. I'm here to learn. I thank anyone that can help me with that.
 
This is purely an observation, I have no practical experience with Klasse twins other than I own, and will be using them.



The curing of the product evidently takes 12 or more hours, for the life of me I can't see why it would be so hard to remove after curing at 12 or 24 hours for that matter. Once the molecular structure has been rearranged (curing), anything left over should be no more than dust. However some people seem to be having a terrible time with leaving it on and I really don't think they are being facetious.



The one thing that keeps coming up over and over is the amount (SG) of it that is being applied to the surface with each wipe on of the hand! This seems to be the "one" outstanding thing that is almost impossible to describe to someone in writing. Probably the best description I have read about is to apply just a whisper of product but a whisper to you might be a small scream to someone else!!

However this in my opinion is where the problem lies. It seems that if it is applied extremely "light enough" that the WOWO method or the overnight method would probably work OK. This is probably why the guys that are not having any problems put on 2 or 3 coats of SG. If the 1 st coat was applied so dam light that you didn't get full coverage, so what, the 2nd coat would/should take care of it. The 3 rd coat would definitely get everything. This could very well be the reasoning that 3 coats seem to be about the max needed!

I got my opinions from reading every article on this web site I could find including all of David B's directions on SG application. You can do the same but be prepared to spend hours if not days doing it.

Changeling
 
Exactly my understanding.. that extra "layers" will NOT increase the durability or longevity of the sealant, but just ensures coverage.



As for the "whisper" amount. I soaked a terry pad in distilled water and rung it out until it was as dry as I could make it. I then put a nickel size amount of SG on and did about 1/3 of the hood, another coat for 1/2 the roof and so on. I'me SURE I used too much cause it was the first time I used it, but with wipe on wipe off, there was absolutely no problem removing the product.



It was nice not worrying about getting a toothbrush out for all the "cake" that used to get left in the hard to reach spots the few times in my life I actually sealed or waxed a car. I love this stuff. I'm surprised to hear so many have problems with it. My understanding that drying time should be zero(amount of time between application and removal), but curing time should be 24 hours.(amount of time between removal and another layer, wax or getting wet.) I can definitely see the problem for people without a garage. Would suck to wash, clay, AIO, SG and then wake up the next morning to a wet car or worse, water marks...
 
icall said:
Exactly my understanding.. that extra "layers" will NOT increase the durability or longevity of the sealant, but just ensures coverage.



As for the "whisper" amount. I soaked a terry pad in distilled water and rung it out until it was as dry as I could make it. I then put a nickel size amount of SG on and did about 1/3 of the hood, another coat for 1/2 the roof and so on. I'me SURE I used too much cause it was the first time I used it, but with wipe on wipe off, there was absolutely no problem removing the product.



It was nice not worrying about getting a toothbrush out for all the "cake" that used to get left in the hard to reach spots the few times in my life I actually sealed or waxed a car. I love this stuff. I'm surprised to hear so many have problems with it. My understanding that drying time should be zero(amount of time between application and removal), but curing time should be 24 hours.(amount of time between removal and another layer, wax or getting wet.) I can definitely see the problem for people without a garage. Would suck to wash, clay, AIO, SG and then wake up the next morning to a wet car or worse, water marks...
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icall this is the kind of posting I like to read, you explained exactly what you did. That way people can relate, most know/should how big a nickle is. Then saying you are sure you used to much. This is valuable descriptive evidence that it's not "Black Magic" in applying SG, just some common sense and a realistic post explaining everything in detail.

Changeling
 
icall- I fully understand how the whole KSG thing can make for confusion, there are *so* many seemingly contradictory reports/opinions/experiences.



In *my* experience, the longer it sets up the easier it wipes off. I once applied KSG so thickly it was like a facetious example of waxing, a thick white coating...that's what I meant by "goofy thick". After three days it wiped off quite easily. That said, I prefer to use the extremely thin applications (*FAR* less than a nickel-size amount for any panel); I think of it as bonding at the molecular level. IMO it doesn't take much experience/effort to ensure adequate/uniform coverage with such small amounts, but what's easy for one person might not be for somebody else and I'm used to doing it this way. After dozens of applications (including the wheels on most of our vehicles), I'm still using the first bottle of it, which I bought around the time I moved into the current house in 2000, plenty left in it too, so that gives an idea of how little I use.



Regarding durability (no, the regulars don't need to worry that I'll rehash it all again), I did some experiments where I controlled every remotely relevant variable I could think of (and I'm confident that I didn't miss anything ;) ). More layers lasted a *lot* longer for me than fewer layers, simple as that; and no, thicker/thinner layers didn't change the results. Anticipating another common concern: even if it takes several layers to ensure complete coverage and that I somehow failed to achieve said coverage until I'd applied a few (and BTW, the suggestion that I'd fail to consider such obvious stuff would be pretty insulting ;) ), the results were still clear- more applications last longer, which I interpret as the result of layering- building up an increasingly thick film of KSG on the surface, a film I can even *feel*. Not saying that everyone's experience will mirror mine, but in my case the results were so blatantly obvious that I'd be foolish to discount them.



For me, putting about six layers of KSG on the minivan means that I won't have to re-LSP it for a long, long time even if I spot-clay at every wash; four-six layers on wheels last until I take them off to run the winter ones, so I always shoot for four-six thin layers when I'm using KSG.
 
Accumulator, if additional applications actually built up and increasingly thick film, eventually you'd be able to scratch it with your fingernail..think of the idiots doing 20 coats of zaino.. Also, my experiment is over on my truck - 3 full months have passed, and the panels I did with one thick application of ksg are 'wearing' the same as those with ksgx3..both are severely degraded after 3 months 24/7 outside in the ohio winter/salt including a 3500 mile road trip and several washes. Just my results, but from those as well as my convos with various sealant/wax mfr's lead me to believe subsequent applications only contribute to durability because of more complete coverage.
 
Accumulator - thanks for passing along your findings. I'm a regular and I DO like when you rehash it! Alot of your OCD techniques mesh perfectly with hy own, so its kinda like a support group when I read the replies ;)



T
 
Lightman- I will say that the only times I've ever had micromarring that did *not* extend through my LSP into the paint was with multiple layers of KSG. So I dunno how far the building up will go, but it does appear to happen *for me under my conditions*.



The varying experiences with KSG have left me willing to just :nixweiss and accept that different people experience different results. People observe/experience what goes on and I expect them to believe their own senses, not what I or anybody else says. IMO we oughta use other people's experiences as general guidelines about what *can* happen and not as rules about what will or oughta happen.



And FWIW I *will* try something else when I finally use up that bottle of KSG, it's not like I'm some huge fan of it (I probably post as many negative opinions about it as I do positive).
 
For when you try something new, I'm told the Jeff Werkstatt line is like Klasse on steroids. I was told the acrylic spray would actually boost my SG.
 
icall said:
For when you try something new, I'm told the Jeff Werkstatt line is like Klasse on steroids. I was told the acrylic spray would actually boost my SG.
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Yeah, there are a number of sealants that sound intriguing. I tend to get set in my ways and to stick with products, but it sounds like there are some great alternatives to KSG these days. Not like back when it was pretty much either Klasse or Zaino.
 
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