Joining an association

[WAS]

What's everyone's opinion on the International Detailing Association ?



I know there's been threads on this in the past, but the organization has ramped up a bit, and made a much more "professional" appearance at this year's Car Care World Expo, held last week in Las Vegas (which I attended).



Is it worth the $95 to sign up and become a member ?



I understand that fixed location owners (especially those with more volume-oriented style operations) will have a different opinion than the owner-operator mobile folks out there, but I'd definitely be interested in hearing everyone's thoughts.

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

I've been thinking about it; but I've also been looking into joining SEMA. At this point I don't see the IDA providing much value for the money, but if they start to expand I may throw my hat in the ring.

 

[Scottwax]

I have yet to see a long term successful detailing organization.

 

[WAS]

At this point I don't see the IDA providing much value for the money, but if they start to expand I may throw my hat in the ring.

This is a good point. What would you be "looking for" in a detailing association ?

I have yet to see a long term successful detailing organization.

Why is that ?

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

This is a good point. What would you be "looking for" in a detailing association ?

I think the biggest thing is just more widespread credibility... I don't see most people going out there and looking for an IDA membership status when picking a detailer; if there were an organization that gained a reputation of truly holding members accountable for maintaining high standards so the status actually meant something, I would consider it more successful.



There is just such a wide degree of variance in this industry when it comes to products, process, etc. I don't know that any association could really pull that off.

 

[buda]

What you have here gentlemen is a classic "Catch 22."



You all have the "what are you going to do for me attitude" before joining the industry association.



But understand an association is only as viable as the support it gets from members of the industry.



That said, in spite of average support from operators the IDA has accomplished a great deal in a short time and has the full support of the major suppliers in the industry.



Go to the website Home - The International Detailing Association and see what they offer. Better yet call operator members and ask why they are members.



In another post I will give you the history of associations in the industry



Bud Abraham

 

[WAS]

Bud makes a good point, as does Charlie. I see it as a little more than just having the customers recognize and respect the affiliation, I see it as an opportunity to work with an organization whose primary function is to support our industry.



As far as anyone knows, is there even a different association for detailers OTHER than the IDA ?

 

[tssdetailing]

I'm currently a BBB member and can honestly think of 20 other things my $40/month could go to. Your credibility will be established by your business ethics and clientele. Fancy web logos on your site won't pull customers like when they see you recondition a 10 year old car to better than new. Who is the IDA to your customer? I'm playing devils advocate here, I might be missing out on something by being a member of the IDA, but lookign at there "why joing" page all leads me to believe you'd get the same info on web forums. If they promised leads and promotion as well as some form of protection or insurance benefits-that would be worth joining.

 

[buda]

You need to check the IDA website to see what the requirements are for membership.



Jaison - your attitude is what I was mentioning, "what's in it for me."



Is the detail industry not your industry? Do you believe your only responsibility is to take and not give back.



That attitude, in my opinion, blinds you to the benefits you can gain from a $95 a year investment in the IDA.



As John Kennedy said in his inaugural address:



"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."



Those of us who are members of the IDA believe what is good for the industry is good for ourselves individually. So rather than take, we try to give back.



Bud Abraham

DETAIL PLUS

A Proud Member of the IDA

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

Jaison - your attitude is what I was mentioning, "what's in it for me."



Is the detail industry not your industry? Do you believe your only responsibility is to take and not give back.

I don't think that's what he is saying -- he wouldn't be on this site either if he weren't looking to give back. He's just asking what more the IDA is doing for $95 a year than what the multitude of detailing forums out there are doing that don't cost him a dime.

That attitude in my opinions blinds you to the benefits you can gain from a $95 dollar a you to the benefits you gain for $95 dollars a year.

What sort of benefits? What is my $95 per year doing? What am I facilitating that is beneficial to both the industry and to myself?



The point isn't "give back to the industry" because all of us who are on these detailing forums supporting our vendors and suppliers by purchasing, using, and endorsing their products, discussing industry related issues, and generally helping each other out on a daily basis already are giving back to the industry.



The point IS "who am I giving back to and why?" -- you can call it a what's in it for me attitude all you want but the bottom line is I post on 4 major industry forums already, both taking and giving as much as I possibly can, and not a single dime has ever left my pocket to do so aside from the money I'd still be spending anyway on products and tools to facilitate doing my job.



So far all I see the IDA facilitating is a forum (yet another one that probably has very similar discussions to those on other forums I can read and post to for free), a certificate for my wall (big whoop!), and a listing in their database (I'm already listed in the database here on Autopia and on the 'other' Autopia's database, I've gotten business from them, and they haven't cost me a dime to be listed on).



Come back to me when you can show me things the IDA is doing that I can't get my hands on elsewhere without having to pay for them AND that will give me the opportunity to "give back" in ways more valuable than I am by sharing whatever knowledge and input I can to others for free.

 

[buda]

Charlie



Sorry you feel as you do. If you do not see the benefit your membership in an industry association can offer you there is nothing that anyone can tell you that would convince you otherwise.



As I said, why not call or email a few of the operator members of the IDA and ask them why they have joined. Ask the operator members of the Board of Directors (who are not paid and whose expenses are not reimbursed when they attend IDA meetings) why they are members and why they give of their time and money to participate.



Anything that I would tell you as a supplier to the industry you would not believe anyway.



If you are not willing to take the time to contact operator members of the IDA, then, in my opinion you do not want an answer to your questions anyway.



By the way Charlie where did you get your professional training giving you the right to call yourself a automotive appearance specialist?



Regards

Bud Abraham

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

Charlie



Sorry you feel as you do. If you do not see the benefit your membership in an industry association can offer you there is nothing that anyone can tell you that would convince you otherwise.



As I said, why not call or email a few of the operator members of the IDA and ask them why they have joined. Ask the operator members of the Board of Directors (who are not paid and whose expenses are not reimbursed when they attend IDA meetings) why they are members and why they give of their time and money to participate.



Anything that I would tell you as a supplier to the industry you would not believe anyway.

I find it awfully funny that you're such a staunch supporter of this industry association yet when asked pressing questions about it, you retreat and start hiding behind excuses.

If you are not willing to take the time to contact operator members of the IDA, then, in my opinion you do not want an answer to your questions anyway.

More excuses. Why can't you answer the questions yourself? What are you hiding from?



Any organization worth joining would spell out the functions they perform and services they provide to the industry and their members more clearly on their own website instead of making prospective members call around and ask questions.



And for the record, I don't ask questions I don't want answers to. I also don't ask people questions I don't want THEM to answer themselves. Unless of course I am to take your lack of answer as an answer in and of itself (that answer being you don't know anything from which I can glean direct value, and that your worth is merely as a marketeer who knows how to make contacts and network with others who know what they're talking about to make the hard sell and close).

By the way Charlie where did you get your professional training giving you the right to call yourself a automotive appearance specialist?

First you hide behind your status as a supplier to the industry as your reason for not answering my hard-hitting questions, then you turn around and imply that I have no "right" to call myself a professional because I did not pay your company or another like it to "train" me and hand me another useless piece of paper to hang on my wall?



Like a vast majority of the professionals I interact with on a daily basis through these forums, I got my professional training through a massive institution you may have heard of before: "The School of Hard Knocks." If 10 years of building knowledge through extensive research, collaboration, and experience isn't good enough for you, then what DO I have the "right" to call myself, Bud?

 

[buda]

Charlie



Thank you for your comments. However I am not going to engage in an argument with you on this matter. It is not my place to defend what the IDA offers or does not offer a business considering joining the association. I am not an officer of the association nor a Member of the Board of Directors, simply a supplier member of the association for the reasons given.



Someone posed some questions and I ventured, as a member, while I think one should join.



It is not my responsibility to provide you with reasons why you as an operator, should join. If you want those reasons you need to visit the IDA website and if that does not provide you with suffficent answers then call the executive director, Sheryle Hazard or the president of the IDA, Keith Duplessie and ask them why you, as an operator should join.



The reality is, "if you do not know why you should join, then don't join."



Regards

Bud Abraham

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

Thank you for your comments. However I am not going to engage in an argument with you on this matter.

:rofl :clap:



Let's make sure we've both got this straight. You come into a thread, post a response taking personal shots at someone questioning their standing, then when called upon to back yourself up you decide to act high-and-mighty like you're somehow a bigger, better man for having picked a fight and walked away. That's what I call professionalism and integrity! :rolleyes1:

It is not my place to defend what the IDA offers or does not offer a business considering joining the association. I am not an officer of the association nor a Member of the Board of Directors, simply a supplier member of the association for the reasons given.

Nobody asked you to "defend" any of the IDA's offerings, just so we're clear. :think2

Someone posed some questions and I ventured, as a member, while I think one should join.

Yes, you did. Want a cookie? :heh: :bow

It is not my responsibility to provide you with reasons why you as an operator, should join. If you want those reasons you need to visit the IDA website and if that does not provide you with suffficent answers then call the executive director, Sheryle Hazard or the president of the IDA, Keith Duplessie and ask them why you, as an operator should join.

So basically, what I'm getting from this is that you don't know exactly what your money is doing or how exactly you're "giving back to the industry" through your membership in the IDA. Or you do, and you can't manage to articulate it when asked to expand upon the initial statements you made like "That attitude, in my opinion, blinds you to the benefits you can gain from a $95 a year investment in the IDA." and "the IDA has accomplished a great deal in a short time."

The reality is, "if you do not know why you should join, then don't join."

Actually, the reality is "if you can't expound upon the reasons you made the statements you made, don't make them in the first place."



It sure seems like what you've done is come in here making statements that sound like you're marketing for the IDA (or at the very least strongly advocating the organization) when in fact you have no credible basis to be doing so and you're now left backpedaling. :lie:



Either admit you had no basis for making those initial statements (since you're not clear on exactly what benefits and accomplishments exist here), or tell us what benefits we can gain from a $95 a year investment in the IDA and what sort of great deal of accomplishments have been made by the organization in a short time. This isn't about defending the industry association, it is about providing additional details (you know; giving back to the industry and being helpful) and backing up statements you made yourself.



:mmph:



See yet why it's a BAD idea to attack someone when you're in no position to be doing so? :grinno: I'd suggest you :yield: and issue a retraction of your ridiculous, baseless, superfluous comments. NOBODY tells me I don't have the right to be doing the work I'm doing and gets away with it.

 

[buda]

Charlie nothing posted here is intended to be personal. It is that you and I disagree and we are both entitled to our opinion. Let's leave it at that.



Have offered my opinions and suggestions if you choose to disagree or ignore them so be it.



Was taught by a wise man to nnever "wrestle with a pig.". You both get dirty but the pig loves it.



All the best



Bud Abraham

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

Charlie nothing posted here us about you personally.

I certainly hope you're joking, Bud. Let me help you remember what you said:

By the way Charlie where did you get your professional training giving you the right to call yourself a automotive appearance specialist?

Sure looks like something posted here was about me personally.... or am I not reading that correctly? :nono

It is that you and I disagree and we are both entitled to our opinion. Let's leave it at that. Was taught by a wise man TI never "wrestle with a pig.". You both get dirty but the pig loves it.

And then you proceed to imply I'm a pig, too. :flypig:



Nice. :bat

 

[Scottwax]

I've been doing this full time since 1994 and have yet to have a single customer ask what type of certification I have, or whether or not I belong o a detailing association or the BBB.



Bud-you say the problem is people question "what's in it for me?" For $95, there better be something in it for me to part with my money. I'm not blindly sending money to someone to show my support for the industry. I show my support by doing good work and treating my customers right. They care a lot more about that than what organizations I may or may not belong to. Only thing I ever got out of the PDA were 4x a year pamphlets telling me the basics of detailing and a window sticker. Instead of telling us to contact the IDA (who have a vested interest in people joining) why don't you spell out exactly what the benefits are.

 

[buda]

Scott



Benefits for who? I am a supplier to the industry the benefits I derive from the IDA are not those you would derive as an operator correct?



What would you want from an association membership?



There are numerous benefits that I would see an operator would get from an association membership but then it would be my opinion wouldn't it?



If I were the executive director of the IDA or even the president I could sight many of the membership benefits that an operator could obtain from joining, but I am not.



That is why I say you should contact the IDA yourself, or better yet talk to operator members if you are sincerely interested in learning why your peers join.



Or, is it like Charlie you simply want to argue with me? As I said, I do not wrestle with pigs, it is a no win situation.



If you are truly interested in learning about the IDA go to the source. If not then don't join, simple as that.

 

[buda]

Scott



By the way, your customers may not have asked you what kind of certification you have, but if you had an "IDA Membership Decal" on your window and a "IDA Membership Certificate" on your wall they would notice.



And, certainly they would notice any Certificates of Training you had posted on your wall.



If you do not see the benefit of using your membership in an association as a marketing tool to set you apart from your competition then I certainly cannot convince you of the value.



Regards

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

I've been doing this full time since 1994 and have yet to have a single customer ask what type of certification I have, or whether or not I belong o a detailing association or the BBB.



Bud-you say the problem is people question "what's in it for me?" For $95, there better be something in it for me to part with my money. I'm not blindly sending money to someone to show my support for the industry. I show my support by doing good work and treating my customers right. They care a lot more about that than what organizations I may or may not belong to. Only thing I ever got out of the PDA were 4x a year pamphlets telling me the basics of detailing and a window sticker. Instead of telling us to contact the IDA (who have a vested interest in people joining) why don't you spell out exactly what the benefits are.

THANK YOU! See, I'm not the only one with these same thoughts.

Or, is it like Charlie you simply want to argue with me? As I said, I do not wrestle with pigs, it is a no win situation.

I love how quick you are to throw around insults, Bud. The last thing I want is to argue with you, I just want you to back up the strong definitive statements you've made and you're refusing to do it.

Scott



By the way, your customers may not have asked you what kind of certification you have, but if you had an "IDA Membership Decal" on your window and a "IDA Membership Certificate" on your wall they would notice.



And, certainly they would notice any Certificates of Training you had posted on your wall.

Once again trying to sell people your training program.... not every detailer is in a high volume production shop like those you cater to, Bud. Next you'll be sitting there saying Scott has no right to call himself a professional because he doesn't have one of your pieces of paper either. THAT will really be comical to see.

If you do not see the benefit of using your membership in an association as a marketing tool to set you apart from your competition then I certainly cannot convince you of the value.

C'mon, Bud. Just admit the reason you can't convince us of the value is because you have no clue what the value is and your original statements were baseless. The IDA is not ASE, nor I-CAR, both of which are more widely recognized for their value in the automotive industry. Because the IDA doesn't have anything anywhere close to that caliber, their value is highly limited and not a "marketing tool" at this stage of their existence. If they can manage to get themselves more credibility THEN they might be worth joining.