Jeweling paint with a Flex

Zoraduntov

Zoraduntov

New member
I have the Flex orbital polisher machine .

I'm currently attempting to Jewel the paint on a 2004 Corvette.

The question I have is what pad to use with p085rd menzerna

I use lake country pads.

Black or blue ?
 
Blue, black, red or gold from Lake country works great for jeweling. And I promise that no one could tell if you used a black or blue pad.
 
Funny that you ask this because I've been playing with this myself this weekend, except I have been using FPII. Anyway, its not nearly as easy to break down polishes with the Flex as it is with a rotary. At first I was getting not so great finishes (compared side by side with the rotary) because I wasn't fully breaking down the polish. I found that I needed moderate pressure at speed 6 for about 3 slow passes to break down the polish. Then I could drop down to speed 3 with lighter pressure for a few more slow passes. This was with a black pad. I'd think a blue pad might be even slower to break down polish. For that reason, I suggest you start off with the black pad.



To summarize my other observations, I could not get M205 to finish as nicely with the Flex as I could with the rotary. I tried and tried, but it wasn't working. It got better when I used low speed (2 I think) and very light pressure and only two passes. Remember this polish doesn't break down.



The only polish I could get indistinguishable from the rotary (along a tape line) was FPII after some practice. This polish sat on my shelf a long time after I got some of the newer polishes (106, M205, UF) but in recent weeks I have seen a great deal of promise with it. I wish I had 85RD to compare with it, but I don't have that one.
 
wannafbody said:
I kinda wonder why LC has so many finishing pads.
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They probably found out they sell more that way. I only use orange, green, and black. I could probably get by with just orange and black. Don't most people agree there's not a bit of difference between red and blue?
 
zoraduntov said:
A little off the subject , but with a rotery , do you have to apply much pressure when breaking down polishes?
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I don't ever apply much pressure with a rotary. I probably use 1/2 what I'd use with a Flex. That's not necessarily best technique, just what I do.





I'm interested to see any other tips on jeweling with a Flex that other members have. I'd think this is something a lot of people have worked on.
 
Personally, I use the LC black pad for jewelling because the paint on my cars are extremely hard and there's no difference in the result, as far as I could see. The black pad actually helps break down the abrasives a little quicker, enabling me to spend less time on the jewelling process.



I heard that on some very soft paint, jewelling with a blue/red is almost necessary. But on the paint I work with, there's no difference between the blue and black pads.







Generally, I wouldn't apply any pressure when working with the rotary. I would only apply enough pressure (1-5lb) just to keep the pads flat and steady. I'd be weary about using the term "pressure" to describe the downward action applied on the rotary. Last time I mentioned the word "pressure" with regards to the use of a rotary on another forum, I got harassed for misusing the tool. According to some people, the act of keeping downward force on the rotary head to keep it steady is not pressure.
 
As porta stated,Take your pick. IIRC, todd once mentioned something about the lc blue and red being the exact same pad but I've jeweled with all 4, it just depends on the clear.
 
I too question how significant the functional differences between all the various zero-cut pads really are, but I suppose that some pad/product combos will simply work better than others...maybe because of little variations in the techniques of different users.



I find it interesting that people are discussing polish breakdown so much when it comes to jeweling/burnishing. I try to match the product/pad/paint so that the whole approach is *so* close to nonabrasive that the breakdown just isn't that big of a deal :think: But then I never do this step until things are already 100% corrected, at the point where anybody else would say it's ready-to-wax, and I gather some people are sorta combining the final, last-stage correction with the burnishing.



And for that matter, M205 is not something I'd choose for jeweling/burnishing if only because it doesn't break down; it never gets to the "much finer than it started out" point the way some stuff does. Seems like it would just *have* to remain more aggressive than something like, say... Menzerna FPII is right before it's ready to be buffed off.



Likewise, I'm not exerting *any* pressure during this step. The whole thing is about as gentle as I can make it (even on hard clear).
 
Accumulator said:
I find it interesting that people are discussing polish breakdown so much when it comes to jeweling/burnishing.







I try to match the product/pad/paint so that the whole approach is *so* close to nonabrasive that the breakdown just isn't that big of a deal :think:





And for that matter, M205 is not something I'd choose for jeweling/burnishing if only because it doesn't break down; it never gets to the "much finer than it started out" point the way some stuff does. Seems like it would just *have* to remain more aggressive than something like, say... Menzerna FPII is right before it's ready to be buffed off.





Likewise, I'm not exerting *any* pressure during this step. The whole thing is about as gentle as I can make it (even on hard clear).
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So, with a Flex, you're having good luck completely breaking down FPII with no pressure and a finishing pad? What kind of speeds and working times are you using? I'm playing with this right now and I've had some success, but I still feel like there's more to be had.
 
I agree with Accumulator. FP2 is the finest finishing polish I've used. With a rotary use the softest pad. With a PC I've never had good luck finishing with a soft finishing pad. I prefer a firmer pad for PC usage.
 
wfedwar said:
So, with a Flex, you're having good luck completely breaking down FPII with no pressure and a finishing pad? What kind of speeds and working times are you using? I'm playing with this right now and I've had some success, but I still feel like there's more to be had.
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Soor, I was unclear (again) :o



I've never even *used* FPII! Since you have actual hands-on experience with it, you know far more than I.



I've done my burnishing with 1Z HG and the Menzerna 106(whatever suffix) that was relabeled as Blackfire Finishing Polish. I did the latter with the Flex using a Griot's orange pad (similar to LC Tangerine HydroTech), a pad that I *REALLY* like via DA/RO. BUT this was on very hard clear and I've never tried really burnishing softer paint as I figure it's pretty much a waste of time in the big picture of real-world vehicles.



With the 1Z HG, I use the Cyclo and blue Sonus pads.



Note that Kevin Brown raises a few good points regarding diminishing-abrasive products vs. M205 in this (burnishing) context, and I sometimes wonder if I'm just not using the optimal technique with M205 :think:



But I sure would be interested to hear what you think of the Griot's orange pad via Flex. Its kinda firm and open-pored, so it sure doesn't seem to be something that'd be good for this, but it works swell IME.
 
FWIW, I used Optimum Finish with a gray CCS 6.5" pad on the 3401 this past weekend on my S2000 (VERY soft paint). It worked extremely well and has a very long working time...seems quite similar to 3M Ultrafina to be honest.



I started it on speed 6 and finished on speed 5 with light pressure and the paint turned out perfect. Wish I had some pics :(
 
Yeah, I've been very impressed with the finish M205 can achieve via rotary. On hard paint, I can get a beautiful finish with the Flex on a black pad (speed 3-4, very light pressure the whole time). When I try to do this on medium/soft paint, I get a little micromarring. Not much, but enough to appear hazy under the right light (being overly picky, perhaps). The best I've done on medium/soft paint using the Flex is FPII with light pressure, medium speed. I'm going to keep playing with M205 and FPII. Ultrafina never gives visible micromarring, but it also has never given me perfect reflections like what FPII and M205 offer. I may also try a PC with these, just to see how it compares.
 
M205 did leave a considerable amount of haze with a white polishing pad on the Flex (keep in mind this is VERY soft paint). However, the LC Hydro-tech pads (Tangerine) made a HUGE difference - almost LSP ready, but I still decided to follow with Optimum Finish / Gray which was icing on the cake.
 
Matt@Autogeek- I'm always like hearing how those tangerine pads work for people. If I ever wear out my Griot's orange pads (super with M205 on hard paint) you can bet I'll be giving them a try.



That OF sounds good...now if they'd just shorten the work time :D Those of us who like *QUICK* worktimes can find Optimum polishes a little frustrating.
 
Accumulator said:
Matt@Autogeek- I'm always like hearing how those tangerine pads work for people. If I ever wear out my Griot's orange pads (super with M205 on hard paint) you can bet I'll be giving them a try.



That OF sounds good...now if they'd just shorten the work time :D Those of us who like *QUICK* worktimes can find Optimum polishes a little frustrating.
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Optimum Polish has a little TOO long of a working time IMO. But I did enjoy using Optimum Finish. What type of pads did you try it with, and with what machine? I opted for a gray pad instead of red/blue, and perhaps that caused it to break down quicker - plus I'm using a Flex 3401. Either way, I found the working time to be about right....worked very similar to 3M Ultrafina IMO.
 
loveyourcar said:
I have never heard this term 'jeweling'. Is it just polishing or something else?
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Just the final polishing step....marketing at it's best but it does sound good. (No cut pad with an ultra fine polish)
 
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