ITS THE PITS! What is going on???

Sveta

Sveta

New member
Been using a DA for a year, maybe 30 times. I have a car (never DA'd) that has only been done by hand and had 99%+ perfect paint except for a dealer induced problem I was trying to solve with the DA. Got the marring and most of the scratches, but while inspecting the work area before doing the entire car with SSR1 and a blue pad I SAW THESE PITS!

Cleaned up some light scratches and marring with SSR2.5 and a green DAS pad followed by SSR1 with a blue DAS pad. The marring went away and the light scratches were minimized, but not totally removed. I was only working in a small area, less then 2'x2'.

When I finished I saw 20+- per inch of very tiny "pits" in the paint, only in the area I was working in. I worked the SSR's until they dusted and I'm sure it was long enough as the marring was gone and the light scratches reduced to an acceptable level. There is no hazing. Where the DA wasn't used the paint is 98% perfect with no pits. I think I have seen these tiny pits in close up pictures under 1000 Watt Halo lights and never gave it much thought, but I see these now in my own paint. What really disturbs me is I see the same pits on a older vehicle I did last week, with different pads and polishes, but assumed they were there from 15 years of "neglect" or sand blasted in over time.
The only things used common on both vehicles were the PC DA and Sonus brand pads. Today I used DAS pads. Last week on the older vehicle they were Sonus SFX pads. Just trying to cover all the facts.

I know this sounds strange, but two vehicles in two weeks has me pretty upset. Until I understand this I have ZERO confidence in the DA, Sonus PADS and ME. Someone asked this same question not too long ago here or elsewhere and if I recall, no one had much of an answer. The best answer I read was something like...'don't let the polish cake on the pad', or something. Is that it? Polish caking? I'm pretty sure that wasn't my problem. But, if so how the heck can that put pits...not lines...into the paint when the DA is running?
I must be doing something wrong but I don't know.

Surely somebody knows what I'm talking about and has the answer.
 
No answer here but I have done the same thing on my BMW and the Saab I had. I too would love to know the cause. Both my cars had been negelected and needed revival. In my case, I got the pits using a wool leveling pad and Menzerna IP which I worked for a very long time with the PC on 6. I avoid 6 and the wool pad now.

:dunno
 
Yes. dalmore. We talked about this before! I thought maybe the IP and SFX pads. BUT...

Never saw these before with IP with an orange pad on the same vehicle. Thought is was the pads.

But, today I used SSR's and DAS pads. Same micro tiny pits. Really show up in the right light.

I really would like to know what I'm doing wrong. I don't remember seeing these pits before when I PC'd the old car. If I am doing something wrong I would like to know what.
 
sounds strange:dunno

here's a few guesses....

at what speed do you spread the products? try no faster than 3-4 ...

is it possible they were there before and the polishing brought them out?

is there constuction anywhere near where you drive?

it's real hard to guess without seeing or feeling them:(
 
Poorboy said:
sounds strange:dunno

here's a few guesses....

at what speed do you spread the products? try no faster than 3-4 ...

is it possible they were there before and the polishing brought them out?

is there constuction anywhere near where you drive?

it's real hard to guess without seeing or feeling them:(
Click to expand...


Thanks for the reply.

Product was spread at 1 and then turned up to 4-5 for maybe 10-20 seconds, sometimes I put slight pressure down for a few seconds. I reduced speed to 3 for a minute or two, maybe a bit longer. I can't remember. I was concentrating on which pad and SSR was working best.

The car was washed and clayed before polishing. This was done inside a garage. There is construction of houses near us and we drive by other places, but I don't see where your going with this.

You can't feel these pits. They are so small that it looks like someone used a pin and put dots into the paint. The older car has Imron paint. That's what made me think it was in the re-paint on that older car. After yesterday's work I'm not so sure. Tiny bubbles in the paint? If so, why haven't other people talked about this? The new once nearly perfect car was white Honda paint and
I've tried to think what could do this. Does the PC DA vibrate up and down slightly? Things like that. Nothing seems to make sense. Thats why I thought it was pads at first. Both sets of pads were new, clean and both were slightly dampened before use with either QD or distilled water.

This is a long shot, but can the paint get "hot" enough using a PC to make the very top layer of CC "cook" and create tiny "bubbles"?

I'm about ready to take it to a paint shop and ask someone there. Surely this has happened to others.

Because I think it happened twice to me (once for sure), I have a really bad feeling I have discovered a new way to make a PC a deadly tool. I have lost my faith that the PC will not harm your paint. I must be the exception to the "Idiot proof" rule. :boohoo
 
Sounds very much like what I experienced. In my case, I put pressure on the PC too. Maybe that's the cause. :dunno My pits are tiny but you can feel them. Perhaps, I'll grab a test panel and see if I can make pits with the PC.

I don't think you are alone. I recall reading at least one other person mention little white specs or pits after using a PC before. I try to search the DC library for it sometime today.
 
Sveta said:
......This is a long shot, but can the paint get "hot" enough using a PC to make the very top layer of CC "cook" and create tiny "bubbles"?

I'm about ready to take it to a paint shop and ask someone there. Surely this has happened to others.
Click to expand...
I don't think the PC could make the paint that hot, the lack of heat with a PC vs a rotary is what makes it safer to use.

I think the idea of taking it to a paint shop is a good idea. Without being able to see these pits makes it hard to diagnose. Please keep us posted as to what they say.
 
It is hard to imagine the PC or pads doing the damage.
I think the pits were there before polishing and only became visible as the shine on the paint was increased.
The pits can be caused by a sandblasting effect as the car is driven ... I have a 1995 Trans-Am that has these pits on the front end, hood and behind the wheels. Other parts of the car do not have the pits. It has been polished with a rotary and the PC using SSR 1 with the PC at max speed. I think the paint gets hotter sitting in the sun than by polishing it with a PC.
They can also be caused by solvent pops when a car is painted (mostly repaints) and the clear is too thick or it is force dried before the solvents can evaporate properly.
 
kimwallace said:
It is hard to imagine the PC or pads doing the damage.
I think the pits were there before polishing and only became visible as the shine on the paint was increased.
Click to expand...

:yeah

Does it look like this:
2.jpg


I have the same thing on my Yukon, I noticed it after polishing my hood the first time and on my roof before I polished it. It's not done by the PC, it's either a paint defect or from some type of contaminate like rail dust.

I've seen it on a quite a few cars I've detailed.
 
great picture...I have also seen many cars/trucks with those type of mark and it is the beginning of clearcoat failure ...I saw this on a 35k paint job on a street rod this summer and the guy was really bummed and I told him to take it back to the painter:(
 
Poorboy said:
great picture...I have also seen many cars/trucks with those type of mark and it is the beginning of clearcoat failure ...I saw this on a 35k paint job on a street rod this summer and the guy was really bummed and I told him to take it back to the painter:(
Click to expand...

Thanks, but I don't think it's the beginning of CCF this was take about 6 month after I bought my Yukon new. That was almost 3 years ago and they haven't changed at all.

The picture is deceiving but it was the best I could get to show up, they aren't white (the camera makes them look white because of the light refracting off them) they are just slight indentations in the clear that can only be seen under direct light and they also can't be felt....let me see if I can get a better picture.....

Here is a better shot (better camera now) then the one I took 3 yrs ago
This is a zoomed in Marco shot, these can barely be seen from about 3-4feet away:

4.jpg
 
That looks exactly like solvent pop. Has the hood been repainted?
It could also be from a defect in the base material being painted.
 
kimwallace said:
That looks exactly like solvent pop. Has the hood been repainted?
It could also be from a defect in the base material being painted.
Click to expand...

Nope factory paint and I've seen it in many factory paint jobs. I've also seen something similar in cars that have been repainted, (probably solvent pop) but much more pronounced.
 
That's not what mine look like. I have metallic paint so I'm not sure I'll be able to get a shot that shows them among the flakes. Mine look exactly like tiny little chips in the paint and can be felt. They were not noticed until after I polished as I stated. I'm not saying this isn't something that using the PC simply exposed as to something it created. Either way, weither it's a defect that was exposed or something created. It didn't show before I did that. I'll try to get some pictures tonight.
 
blkyukon said:
:yeah

Does it look like this:
2.jpg


I have the same thing on my Yukon, I noticed it after polishing my hood the first time and on my roof before I polished it. It's not done by the PC, it's either a paint defect or from some type of contaminate like rail dust.

I've seen it on a quite a few cars I've detailed.
Click to expand...

Yes. Exactly like that!!!
---------------------------------------
It's strange that mine are ONLY on the area I polished with the PC, and of course everywhere I PC'd on the older black car I did some days ago. Those MIGHT have been there before I ever polished it with a DA, but I thought it was from years of neglect and was thrilled to see the spectacular results I got after it's first DA detailing.

I am going to the paint expert tomorrow to see what he says and promise to relay what he said. (Could these pits be the "solvent pops" I've seen here and on other posts?)

I haven't read all post yet.
 
Poorboy said:
great picture...I have also seen many cars/trucks with those type of mark and it is the beginning of clearcoat failure ...I saw this on a 35k paint job on a street rod this summer and the guy was really bummed and I told him to take it back to the painter:(
Click to expand...

Holy smokes! Can that happen on an '04 car not even a year old? Why would it only be on the area I used the PC on? That seems strange unless polishing is revealing something beneath the surface. What is your opinion?

Maybe this means nothing, but I was told it was safe to start waxing my new car from the dealership and I didn't need to wait for any paint curing time. Could waxing the car the first two months followed by EX-P these last six months create a CC failure problem?

Doing some quessing here, I know, but if CC failure then I need to talk to Honda, don't I?
 
I have the same thing on my car (which is why i don't really take
too many pics of my hood). Ive seen this on both repainted areas
and factory finishes. I suspect this is a problem with the paintjob
regardless of where it came from, and not the product(s) we use.
However, the product(s) by their very use can enhance
the defects, or expose them during the compounding or polishing
steps. I've pretty much resigned myself to just re-doing the
sections probably this spring.

Sveta, unless the car came fresh out the oven, I highly doubt that
you will harm the paint with sealants or wax. If you feel concern,
then maybe you should hold off untill you feel more comfortable.
A glaze such as offered by Menzerna or 3m, will do you good, as
it will allow the paint to cure while givng very limited protection.
Just keep in mind that you will have to keep on top of the glazing
applications, as they tend to last by themselves anywhere from 2-4
weeks max. Washes, and the elements take their toll very quickly
on these products.
 
i noticed the same thing on my whip after i polished it the first time i got it. (10 year old neglected civic, repainted at least once)

So i cant offer up much other than another shoulder to cry on.
 
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