Is brake dust harmful for the environment?

M

MCWD

New member
I ask this for two reasons. First, I use ONR and I want to make sure that there is no way I can have an official question me on the disposal or run off of the brakedust. Secondly, when I do dispose of the water, I dont want to dump on areas that will be effected by it. Thanks in advance!:hm
 
Yes, it is. My brother is the head of the storm water division for the City of San Diego in the planning and development area and he mentioned to me that the city is working with auto manufactures to change their brake pads since the dust all ends up in the storm drains, which in turn end up in our oceans and other local waterways and it is extremely harmful.
 
Lumadar said:
Yes, it is. My brother is the head of the storm water division for the City of San Diego in the planning and development area and he mentioned to me that the city is working with auto manufactures to change their brake pads since the dust all ends up in the storm drains, which in turn end up in our oceans and other local waterways and it is extremely harmful.
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So where does that put all of us fellow detailers? Are we ok to allow the ONR drips onto the ground and not be liable?
 
MCWD said:
So where does that put all of us fellow detailers? Are we ok to allow the ONR drips onto the ground and not be liable?
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Hello



I think it might depend on how much drips were talking about. I use ONR and it does drip but not to the point where it's running down the driveway. But I've seen others use it where from the bucket to the car, it seems half the solution is on the ground before it hits the car. Overall I'm not a judge to say which method is better but I would think less runnoff the better.
 
Waterless_Touch said:
Hello



I think it might depend on how much drips were talking about. I use ONR and it does drip but not to the point where it's running down the driveway. But I've seen others use it where from the bucket to the car, it seems half the solution is on the ground before it hits the car. Overall I'm not a judge to say which method is better but I would think less runnoff the better.
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My main concern is being as Eco-Friendly as possible. I think if the cars wheels are really bad I may start using puppy pads to absorb the harmful runoff... I am assuming that I can trash that and it wouldn't be frowned upon. Do you agree?:waxing:
 
So, where are those puppy pads going to end up with all that toxic break dust? Where does the trash in New Jersey end up? I can understand you wanting to “help� the environment, but sometimes people should use common sense. There is no way in the world that cleaning a car and the water run off from it is going to affect the water shed one little bit. Look up your local water test results and see what the EPA found chemical wise. I guarantee you’re not going to find “break dust� or any other chemical associated with cleaning your car. If you're truly worried about the water run off I might suggest you get one of those big black water catchers I see used on the Detailing World forum. Now I'm not too sure what they do with that water, but I'm sure you could ask.



This is not a bash against you in any way, but for those of you that think Global Warming is man made.... Global Warming Hoax: News
 
crofa said:
So, where are those puppy pads going to end up with all that toxic break dust? Where does the trash in New Jersey end up? I can understand you wanting to “help� the environment, but sometimes people should use common sense. There is no way in the world that cleaning a car and the water run off from it is going to affect the water shed one little bit. Look up your local water test results and see what the EPA found chemical wise. I guarantee you’re not going to find “break dust� or any other chemical associated with cleaning your car. If you're truly worried about the water run off I might suggest you get one of those big black water catchers I see used on the Detailing World forum. Now I'm not too sure what they do with that water, but I'm sure you could ask.



This is not a bash against you in any way, but for those of you that think Global Warming is man made.... Global Warming Hoax: News
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Well, I am going to have to disagree on that first statement, and agree with the second.



My brother HAS done extensive testing that do show the specific metals in brake pads are being found in streams and other local "clean" water sources due to runoff.



However, some cities have dual systems, and others do not...so it can vary by region.
 
A reclaim mat, reclaim system, or boom vac would be your best option if using the traditional wash method to clean vehicles. No worries of drips or runoffs but on the flip side, you'll have to find somewhere to dispose of all that water collected.



Either way, it's good that you taking into account your water usage, I'm the same and have stressed that for my business :2thumbs:
 
I will agree that you will find "some" traces of metals from brake dust. My not so clear point was directed towards brakes dust run off from cleaning your car. If you really look at the amount of trucks and cars on the road especially near bigger cities on the east and west coast what percent of those metals are in those water tests. I know around the Annapolis, Baltimore and DC area the big issue is pesticides, and animal waste run off in the water shed. I'm not downing anyone that wants to do their part, I'm just saying look at the big picture and see if the cost and time it will take you to collect and dispose of the water created by detailing a car worth it. Some may think so, and to those that truly worry about this keep trying to find ways to limit any kind of water run off pollution.
 
Something just came to me thanks to (Waterless Touch). What if there was a system out there where you could use a self-containment system that catches all the water run off, and while your washing that car the water is being evacuated into some kind of filtering system. So, you’re washing with reclaimed and filtered water. For those mobile detailers that have water tanks I think this would take care of any state/city dirty water laws, and a selling point to customers. What do you guys think of this concept?
 
If there is shade I wash the car on the greass with ONR, if no shade I wash just the tires and rims on the grass pull the car in the garage and finish it there.
 
My reason for using the puppy pads had been geared more toward keeping the really dirty wheels from staining the driveways, and to keep it contained to the pad. My thoughts were when its dried and in the trash that it would be a disposed of properly. I would say maybe 1 out of every 20 cars would require this, but it was what I thought would be best. Even though it would go in the trash, where is all the collected metal particles going that are being caught in the water treatment facilities? Ultimately, I would think that this wouldn't be a horrible way to handle the situation for the few cars requiring this.
 
I don't really see the point in worrying. The brake dust left on the wheels is only a small percentage of what is released when you press the brakes. A lot gets sent into the air and settles on the ground. Rain water then runs it into the storm drains and possibly into the water table. And the most harmful element in brakes, asbestos has been phased out of production a long time ago. Now you pretty much just have different proportions of ceramic, carbon, copper or brass, and clay binders, maybe also a few harmless trace metals like aluminum or titanium. All of which are pretty harmless. But a big componenet of the dust is also iron, again a pretty harmless element.



I'm all for environmental consciousness but going overboard without understanding the science leads us nowhere, much like where these environmental threads often lead. There are sources of bad metals in ground water, the san gabriel valley water table is likely permanently contaminated but it's not people washing cars, it was from industrial plants back in the 50's dumping high tech waste which eventually leached into the table. Brakes are pretty much harmless, I'd have to say one of the more harmful things is those greasy tire dressings. Those things are just oil and silicone. That getting into our water table worries me more. Especially when I see people slather tire dressings on and it splatters everywhere. Also cars that leak motor oil. Not only makes your car ugly and prone to breakdown but that will wash into the water system more readily and a little bit will contaminate a lot of water because it doesn't evaporate it dwells on the water.
 
Lumadar said:
Yes, it is. My brother is the head of the storm water division for the City of San Diego in the planning and development area and he mentioned to me that the city is working with auto manufactures to change their brake pads since the dust all ends up in the storm drains, which in turn end up in our oceans and other local waterways and it is extremely harmful.
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Terrific. I can't wait to replace the toxic brake pads on my F250 4X4 with eco-weenie approved eco pads made out of crushed granola assembled by hippies on a freakin'commune outside San francisco.



No...I'd rather stop my 7,200 lb. vehicle. (Yes, I drive it empty most of the time just to piss-off enviromentalists.)
 
MCWD



The Total Pros out of Oceanside CA, have a prototype of a small wash mat that fits around the tire. I like it so I can get a little more sloppy as I increase speed, and not really worry as any drips will be captured by the mat ... looks like a "C" that fits around the tire.



Call, ask for Mel, and tell heim to hurry to develop thsi into a production model!



Cheers,



-jim
 
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