Is a Flex really necessary?

L

loco

New member
Hello all,



My PC7424 (not an XP model) is getting pretty old. I've had it for 4-5 years or so. It works fine, but correcting swirling is a rather slow process. I had some success with Menzerna Power Finish this spring, but unfortunately, the dealer took my car through the Swirl'o Matic without my permission a couple times and minor swirls have returned. I plan to make it clear next time I take it in that I do not want their "courtesy wash." I will probably wait until after this winter to try to correct the swirling again.



I am itching to get a Flex 3401, but since I have been reading about various methods of using M105/205, priming pads, etc, I wonder if it's really necessary these days. I do not have either of those polishes, but certainly it would be cheaper to buy them than buy a Flex.



Can folks give me your opinion on whether or not there is still a great advantage in using a Flex vs a PC? What would you do? Thanks much!
 
As a guy that had a Flex and traded it for something else - my opinion is no, you don't have to have one. If your old PC breaks, consider the PCXP, Megs V2 or GG models - or that new one that CMA is carrying, all are half the price of a Flex.



Now, why did I want to get rid of it? Well, I didn't care for the noise, the forced rotation (Makita Bo6040 has a switch) and the limited pad choices unless you spend more $ and get a Edge adapter. I did like the feel and balance of the Flex, but not enough to keep it.
 
never used a flex and of course have itched to get one. I only use a PC but am just a weekend warrior and I line up side details when I want (about 8-10 a year). The PC is fine for this sort of work but if I were doing this more frequently I would want a flex or a rotary. I use 105/205 for anything needing significant correction. It works very well once you get the hang of it and can stand the heavy dust.
 
I think after 4-5 years of handling a PC, you can probably step up to a rotary polisher by now. The rotary will finish better, and cut faster than any of the machines mentioned. As long as you've still got the PC, use that for some finishing work until you really get the hang of finishing with a rotary. It will be a giant step up in the detailing world for you to use a rotary polisher, but since you're experienced with using a PC you should pick it up quickly.





John
 
John - I've noticed you've mentioned that a rotary is superior quite a few times now, but I've also noticed that you've never used Megs M105/205 either. How can you honestly state your opinion when you haven't tried this line? There are many people raving about their results when using this line via a DA, but yet you continuously discount their credibility by your posts. Believe me, if I could cut and finish better and faster with a rotary (especially after 20 years of professional experience) I would still be using it for such. I know you talk with Barry and he personally attests to this workflow's performance, but I don't quite understand why you can't look outside of the box to possibly improve your results by trying this out prior to passing judgement? Care to explain so I understand you better?
 
Noting that I have rotaries, PCs, Cyclos, the GG ROs, and a Flex and I'm experienced with all of 'em....



I'd get the Flex. Yeah, I can argue it either way (just ask Mike, Kevin, Barry, David, or a score of others I've discussed this stuff with; I know the opposing viewpoints and even agree with most of them), but I think the Flex would be money well-spent.



(Yeah, I can elaborate on the stuff I'm leaving unsaid if need be..)



Of all my polishers, it's the one I'd most hate to be without. But sure, personal preference weighs *VERY* heavily here and this is just *my* opinion.



Otherwise I'd keep the PC for use with 4" pads and/or nonabrasive products and get the Griot's 6".



I tend to lean *away* from recommending rotaries, if only because casual users simply won't ever do enough correction to really master the thing. If a "normal guy" does mabye two or three corrections a year at the very most, it'll take a long time to get really good with a rotary, and the "practice on junk panels"/etc. idea leaves me cold...who wants to mess around with this stuff like that?
 
Thanks for all the feedback. I appreciate it very much!



I use the polisher probably 4 times a year. So, I'm not all that experienced. I hesitate to get a rotary because I just feel it would be too much for me and as little as I use it, I would worry about making a mistake and damaging paint. I am looking for something more powerful, yet still "safe".



I'm in central VA, D&D. Thanks very much for the offer. I guess for now a rotary is kind of off the table for me.



I don't know if it makes any difference, but I am a woman, and I have found that the PC makes my hands numb after using it for a while. Does the Flex do this as well? My hands are pretty small.



If I should decide to get the Flex, I would keep the PC for use with smaller pads (I have the backing plate for 4" pads). If anyone else has any feedback, please chime in. This gives me a lot to think about, and I'm not in a huge hurry to do something right away. Thanks again!
 
loco said:
I don't know if it makes any difference, but I am a woman, and I have found that the PC makes my hands numb after using it for a while. Does the Flex do this as well? My hands are pretty small...
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Woman or man, the vibration from a PC can be a problem ("white finger" is not something to dismiss lightly!). You'd be surprised how many big guys have to take care in that regard, some people are just more susceptible to it than others. I myself never had any problems for years, but now it can be an issue (both with the PC and with other powertools that vibrate that way).



IMO the *best* (non-rotary) machine in that regard is the Cyclo, but how much it can do seems to be product-dependent. That said, I will point out that the Cyclo is my overall fave polisher *to use* as I find it more user-friendly than anything else. It's just not as efficient as the Flex and not as aggressive as a PC fitted with 4" pads.



The Griot's 6" is also better than the PC, but it's no Cyclo in that regard.



The Flex is just *different*. It has a bit of "recoil" to it and some people feel like they really have to wrestle with the thing. Hm....I'm not saying this just because you're female, but *maybe*, just "maybe" not "probably", you'd find it a bit much. But it's not the same kind of vibration as with the PC and it doesn't bother me in that regard.
 
Thanks Accumulator. I thought I'd read that the Flex is easier on you in terms of numbness in the hands. But I was not aware that some people feel you have to wrestle with it. That's interesting.



I guess my biggest priority is to get something safe that will do the work quickly. I tire out pretty fast and would prefer not to have to spend a whole day or two hovering over my car removing swirls. Like anyone else, when I get tired, I tend to get sloppy. So, efficiency and something unlikely to harm the paint are my goals.



It might be best to try my PC one more time this fall using the pad priming technique I've read about and the Menzerna 203, even if it's just one panel. Then I can better judge how successful I am and how long it takes and how important any upgrade is to me.
 
loco- Some sorta-random thoughts:



-I somehow think the Flex would be a good choice, but again, I might be biased based on how much *I* like it.



-I never found the Flex hard to handle, but that's just me.



(See how individual factors enter into this stuff?!? It's just sooo hard to predict what somebody else will like/not.)



-You might oughta try SurBuf pads with M105 via PC when you need to do serious correction, then follow with the M105 on a milder pad. Note that I wasn't a big M105 fanboy until I broke down and, reluctantly, tried the stuff. You might also look into the new Optimum Spray Compound.



-But nothing's gonna take the PC-vibration off the table except getting a different machine.
 
Accumulator said:
The Flex is just *different*. It has a bit of "recoil" to it and some people feel like they really have to wrestle with the thing. Hm....I'm not saying this just because you're female, but *maybe*, just "maybe" not "probably", you'd find it a bit much. But it's not the same kind of vibration as with the PC and it doesn't bother me in that regard.
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It's interesting you said that--I was looking through the videos on autogeek and Mike was saying that it tends to kind of want to run on its own depending on which way you tend to lean the machine. With that said he DID mention that it works as good practice to keep your pad level ergo reducing runawayflex syndrome :)
 
Thanks again, everyone. Accumulator, I do so appreciate your thoughts, especially given that you own and have used every kind of polisher. All the info here is invaluable.



I am trying to avoid buying more stuff for the PC, especially if I end up upgrading anyway. Do you think there is a huge difference between the capabilities of Menzerna 203 and M105? At least for minor swirl removing.



Alexshimshimhae, thanks for the info about the video. I'll have to go take a look!
 
D&D Auto Detail said:
Accumulator- you think the Griots 6" is better than the PCXP?
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Can't really say as I've never used the XP. FWIW, Barry Theal has pretty much experience with both and he *GREATLY* prefers the Griot's, as in, not even a close comparison. Plus, there was that comparison between the two that Mike Phillips did where the Griot's came out on top.



But again, I have zero first-hand experience with the XP so the best I can do is repeat what others (whom I respect) have found. I do like the Griot's lifetime warranty though, if nothing else....and the two failures of the XP's hollow driveshaft/sleeve sounded a little scary. Barry's situation sounded like a one-off failure, but that other one (sorry, forget whose it was) sounded like a flat-out design/construction flaw. Guess things like that make it easy for me to lean towards a different machine.
 
Accumulator said:
Can't really say as I've never used the XP. FWIW, Barry Theal has pretty much experience with both and he *GREATLY* prefers the Griot's, as in, not even a close comparison. Plus, there was that comparison between the two that Mike Phillips did where the Griot's came out on top.



But again, I have zero first-hand experience with the XP so the best I can do is repeat what others (whom I respect) have found. I do like the Griot's lifetime warranty though, if nothing else....and the two failures of the XP's hollow driveshaft/sleeve sounded a little scary. Barry's situation sounded like a one-off failure, but that other one (sorry, forget whose it was) sounded like a flat-out design/construction flaw. Guess things like that make it easy for me to lean towards a different machine.
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Gotcha. I just got my PCXP last week. My 7424 died, dropped it one too many times. Ive only used my new XP once so far, but the XP feels like it vibrates more than the older version.
 
David Fermani said:
John - I've noticed you've mentioned that a rotary is superior quite a few times now, but I've also noticed that you've never used Megs M105/205 either. How can you honestly state your opinion when you haven't tried this line? There are many people raving about their results when using this line via a DA, but yet you continuously discount their credibility by your posts. Believe me, if I could cut and finish better and faster with a rotary (especially after 20 years of professional experience) I would still be using it for such. I know you talk with Barry and he personally attests to this workflow's performance, but I don't quite understand why you can't look outside of the box to possibly improve your results by trying this out prior to passing judgement? Care to explain so I understand you better?
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You're absolutely right. Barry Theal has been egging me on to try the M105/205 products, and I will with due time. I have been using Menzerna for years now, and love the results. I find Menzerna finishes more crisp with a rotary compared to a D.A. with the same pads, and compounds. I was not trying to discredit anyone's post, and I have no problem with a flex machine either, BUT I think with the amount of experience that loco has with his PC, he COULD learn to properly use a rotary. Call me old school, but I still think nothing is quicker, or finishes better than a rotary polisher.





John
 
loco said:
.. Do you think there is a huge difference between the capabilities of Menzerna 203 and M105? At least for minor swirl removing...
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Sorry, can't say as I've never used 203 :nixweiss I have *VERY* limited experience with Menzerna stuff.



Alexshimshimhae said:
.. Mike was saying that it tends to kind of want to run on its own depending on which way you tend to lean the machine. With that said he DID mention that it works as good practice to keep your pad level ergo reducing runawayflex syndrome..
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That "runaway Flex syndrome" (another good coinage!) is one aspect of the "recoil" I was referring to. Avoiding that is where the "wrestling" can enter into it.

JohnKleven said:
... I think with the amount of experience that loco has with his PC, [she] COULD learn to properly use a rotary. Call me old school, but I still think nothing is quicker, or finishes better than a rotary polisher...
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I find our differing opinons interesting, especially as we're both old-school guys (generally speaking), and yeah...not :argue at all, just..well, finding it interesting.



I just *never* quite got to the 100% hologram-free finishing via rotary (that's on b/c, I've done it fine on single stage back in the day) and for that reason I hesitate to expect others to be able to do it. I've also seen lots of "hologram-free" work that *wasn't* in my eyes and I put a *LOT* of weight on the learning curve aspect as I don't expect people to do this stuff very often.



(Heh heh, INSERT Scottwax's insistence that I try Ultrafina some time here...)



I do think that getting rotary-quality results via other means can be *hugely* product/process dependent, but these days I simply never reach for my rotaries any more unless I need to use rocks-in-a-bottle compound for some reason.



And hey, we all have our preferences and it's the end-result that counts.
 
Accumulator said:


I do think that getting rotary-quality results via other means can be *hugely* product/process dependent, but these days I simply never reach for my rotaries any more unless I need to use rocks-in-a-bottle compound for some reason.



And hey, we all have our preferences and it's the end-result that counts.
Click to expand...



I'm just ganna follow this guy... =]
 
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