IPA on SS paint?

[jucaraman]

Im working on a 2002 Black Lexus IS300. The paint is black single stage.



I am using PC 7424.





I have read countless mentions of IPA wipedown after Menzerna SIP and 106FF polishes, and also the newer 105, and 205. This steps helps insure all defects are removed and paint is LSP ready.



I have run into a problem, after I finish polish with 106FF and start IPA wipedown hazing/hologramming instantly appear in the direction the paint was wiped with MF.



I have tried the only two different brands mf towels I have with the same result, even with the lightest pressure. I believe they are being caused by the MF and not actually the polishing oils hiding defects.



The paint seems crazy soft.



If I wipe top to bottom the hazing pattern is up and down. If I wipe left to right the hazing is in back and forth pattern. If I wipe in circular motion the hazing is in circular fashion.



As expected if I wipe SUPER softly with non IPA applied microfiber the finish is pristine 100% everytime.



If I use non IPA applied microfiber but apply just very slight pressure the same is true as using an IPA towel. The hazing/marring follows the exact pattern as to how I wiped.



Suggesting by the added MF pressure the polish oils can no longer provide sufficient barrier for paint protection from MF explaining haze/marr.







Thus leaving me with two explanations.



1.



Either the oils are covering this hazing/hologramming I am discovering.(strangely coincidental to always follow my mf wiping directions)





2.



The paint is actually 100% corrected and the oils remaining from polish assist in protecting the super soft paint, creating an oil barrier between paint and MF as I wipe the polish residue away thus leaving perfect finish.









Now the hard part. I plan on applying some FK1000p. If the paint is actually 100% corrected and I apply sealant over top the polishing oils(no IPA wipedown). Will this work with the polishing oils present?



How do you recommend to apply sealant on super soft paint without introducing haze/marring to paint?

 

[SuperBee364]

Im working on a 2002 Black Lexus IS300. The paint is black single stage.



I am using PC 7424.





I have read countless mentions of IPA wipedown after Menzerna SIP and 106FF polishes, and also the newer 105, and 205. This steps helps insure all defects are removed and paint is LSP ready.



I have run into a problem, after I finish polish with 106FF and start IPA wipedown hazing/hologramming instantly appear in the direction the paint was wiped with MF.



I have tried the only two different brands mf towels I have with the same result, even with the lightest pressure. I believe they are being caused by the MF and not actually the polishing oils hiding defects.



The paint seems crazy soft.



If I wipe top to bottom the hazing pattern is up and down. If I wipe left to right the hazing is in back and forth pattern. If I wipe in circular motion the hazing is in circular fashion.



As expected if I wipe SUPER softly with non IPA applied microfiber the finish is pristine 100% everytime.



If I use non IPA applied microfiber but apply just very slight pressure the same is true as using an IPA towel. The hazing/marring follows the exact pattern as to how I wiped.



Suggesting by the added MF pressure the polish oils can no longer provide sufficient barrier for paint protection from MF explaining haze/marr.







Thus leaving me with two explanations.



1.



Either the oils are covering this hazing/hologramming I am discovering.(strangely coincidental to always follow my mf wiping directions)





2.



The paint is actually 100% corrected and the oils remaining from polish assist in protecting the super soft paint, creating an oil barrier between paint and MF as I wipe the polish residue away thus leaving perfect finish.





Now the hard part. I plan on applying some FK1000p. If the paint is actually 100% corrected and I apply sealant over top the polishing oils(no IPA wipedown). Will this work with the polishing oils present?



How do you recommend to apply sealant on super soft paint without introducing haze/marring to paint?

Man, this is a tough one. I hand polished many SS paints in the '80's, but haven't done many by machine, and never did IPA wipes on them, either. Greg Nichols recently had *exactly* this same problem. We talked about it quite extensively and came to the conclusion that neither of us had the slightest idea.



I can only suggest a couple things...



First, you might want to think *very* hard about reconsidering your LSP choice. SS paints just don't really like sealants. Putting a good glaze on a SS paint will give you *amazing* results. Much better than a glaze on a clear coat will. SS paints "breathe" more than clear coats; they are a bit more porous. The oils in a glaze are to the paint like lotion is to your skin. Glazes really will help condition SS paint. Meguiars glazes were originally formulated for SS paints. If you decide to use a Meg's glaze, you might want to stay away from #7, as it can be a nightmare on SS paints. I've heard great things about Megs Machine glaze, though.



Greg had the same defect returning problem you did, no matter how many times he buffed. FWIW, I think you should correct it til it looks flawless without an IPA wipe, then glaze and *wax*. No sealants allowed.



Yeah, I know this is totally contrary to what I've been saying in the recent IPA threads, but this is SS paint. Totally different thing.



Any chance we could get some pics??

 

[ISLover]

Not trying to hijack your thread, but are all Lexus IS black paints SS? I have a black 2008 IS350 that IPA seems to do the same thing.

 

[Accumulator]

This sounds like one of those cases where I'd say "who cares if something's merely hidden..just make the car look good". Yeah...Autopian Heresy but hey, life's tough enough.



As SuperBee364 said, this (soft single-stage) is a case where the "old fashioned Meguiar's approach" is probably just right.



So yeah...leave anything the M205 left behind alone. No IPA wipe. I might even just stop there and apply the LSP.



If you want to do something more, then rather than risk more micormarring from the use of a Pure Polish (rub it on without marring and then buff it off without marring? Might be a tall order..), I think I'd do a final *very* gentle pass with their #9 and then top with a soft wax. Meg's #26 would probably look the best, but I can't help but think about Collinite 845 due to its durability.



If I *were* to use a Pure Polish, I'd probably go with #5 due to its user-friendliness. I'd be trying to avoid something that might require a whole lotta rubbing if things don't go smoothly.



But hey....if it looks good I'd just go to the LSP.

 

[SuperBee364]

Not trying to hijack your thread, but are all Lexus IS black paints SS? I have a black 2008 IS350 that IPA seems to do the same thing.

The easiest way to tell if a paint is SS or not is to take a hand applicator, put a dab of an abrasive polish on it, hand polish a small spot on the car, then see if the applicator has the car's color on it. If it does, it's a SS paint.

 

[ISLover]

Thanks SuperBee. I have noticed that white LC pads will turn a little dark while polishing. Probably SS paint.

 

[jucaraman]

I can only suggest a couple things...



First, you might want to think *very* hard about reconsidering your LSP choice. SS paints just don't really like sealants. Putting a good glaze on a SS paint will give you *amazing* results. Much better than a glaze on a clear coat will. SS paints "breathe" more than clear coats; they are a bit more porous. The oils in a glaze are to the paint like lotion is to your skin. Glazes really will help condition SS paint. Meguiars glazes were originally formulated for SS paints. If you decide to use a Meg's glaze, you might want to stay away from #7, as it can be a nightmare on SS paints. I've heard great things about Megs Machine glaze, though.

Ok I will skip the sealant step.

Now when you talk about the glazes helping condition the porous paint, similar to lotion for your skin. That helps me understand the situation alittle better.





What I am wondering are you saying that by polishing with glaze it will almost leave an even more oily (protected) surface to make the wax application smoother/safer to be marr/haze free?



I am having no problem at all finishing up the paint with 106FF and wiping off with great results. LSP ready in my opinion. I have not tried applying any wax yet to see the results yet though.



I checked the local O'Reillys auto and they carry both #7 glaze which you stated might be a pain to work with.



They also have the #3 machine glaze which you stated many have decent luck with. The only concern I have with trying it is the bottle states not for DA use. Use #7 for DA use.



Have you heard of results using #3 with PC? What speeds would you recommend using it at?





I only have a PC, the finest pads I have are LC CCS 4in blue, and Meguiars new "checkered" gray solo finishing pad, and Meguiars Softbuff 2.0 gray finishing.



As far as waxes go. I have some Nattys blue paste wax, that seems very oily and normally easy to apply on past vehicles. I am wondering if you think lay it down right after 106FF or do I need to do #3 right after 106FF then wax.



Then again I guess best way would be to just try it out and see.



Another possible option, I have some older bottle *white with purple menzerna logo) Final Polish II which is purple colored polish would this be similar to #3 glaze if need be?



And yet another option. I have some Klasse AIO that maybe I could apply instead of wax?? Think thats a good idea?



Too many options to choose from.

Any chance we could get some pics??

Yes I have taken several pics, hopefully some will turn out good to show the correction, and previous swirl/scratches. I will be sure and post them up.

This sounds like one of those cases where I'd say "who cares if something's merely hidden..just make the car look good". Yeah...Autopian Heresy but hey, life's tough enough.



As SuperBee364 said, this (soft single-stage) is a case where the "old fashioned Meguiar's approach" is probably just right.



So yeah...leave anything the M205 left behind alone. No IPA wipe. I might even just stop there and apply the LSP.



If you want to do something more, then rather than risk more micormarring from the use of a Pure Polish (rub it on without marring and then buff it off without marring? Might be a tall order..), I think I'd do a final *very* gentle pass with their #9 and then top with a soft wax. Meg's #26 would probably look the best, but I can't help but think about Collinite 845 due to its durability.



If I *were* to use a Pure Polish, I'd probably go with #5 due to its user-friendliness. I'd be trying to avoid something that might require a whole lotta rubbing if things don't go smoothly.



But hey....if it looks good I'd just go to the LSP.

Thanks for the reply. Thanks also superbee for the replies forgot to mention above. Very helpful and inspiring to continue this hair pulling situation.



What are your thoughts on maybe trying Nattys blue once LSP ready after 106FF?

 

[SuperBee364]

A glaze is definitely optional, but it will add quite a bit to the look. You apply most glazes in the same way as you do a wax.



Menzerna Final Polish II is an abrasive polish in the same sense as PO106FF is; it's an abrasive polish, not a glaze or a wax.



Klasse AIO is sealant based. Most AIO's are sealant based. Again, I'd try to stay away from sealants on SS paint.



I can see that you're getting a bit flustered by all the available options.... I'd try and keep this very simple...



If you decide to *not* use a glaze, just put your Natty's Blue on after polishing with 106FF.



If you decide to use a glaze, use one of Meguiar's "Pure Polish" glazes. Meg's number five is probably what you would want to use. Put it on after the 106FF and before the Natty's Blue.

 

[jucaraman]

A glaze is definitely optional, but it will add quite a bit to the look. You apply most glazes in the same way as you do a wax.

So I would apply the glaze by hand on wax applicator pad, let haze, then buff off residue just like waxing?



I would really like to try a glaze just to see if I notice an improvement. I am limited on time to use my current location, so ordering some #5 is out of the question for now.



Like I mentioned before the local auto shop here has both #3 and #7. I could apply either one with pc or by hand.



When you apply the glaze by hand are you actually trying a polishing motion? Or more the wipe on wipe off method?



Have you heard of luck with #3 on PC?

 

[Accumulator]

jucaraman- All the Meg's Pure Polishes (#3/#5/#7/#81/Deep Crystal Step #2 Polish) work fine by hand or PC (I've BTDT, no problems). I'd go with #3 instead of #7 as it's a bit easier to work with but it's *NOT* as easy as #5. IIRC the DC#2 is pretty good in that regard too but I haven't used it in forever.



See if there's an autobody/paint supply store in your area, they might have the #5. You can let #5 dry completely before buffing it off with no issues, the others have to be buffed off while still a little wet (hence their learning curve).



You sorta rub the product in, think of it as rubbing it into the (invisible) pores of the paint. Note that this is kinda in-between the way you'd use an abrasive polish and the way you'd do a true W-O-W-O. Eh...get the #5, put it on via PC, let it dry, buff it off Sorry to beat you over the head with my #5 preference



Ya know...just to muddy the waters a bit I was thinking of this yesterday and suddenly remembered that I use the Klasse twins on the "B" pillars and front-door window surrounds on my Mazda MPV. And yep, they're black single-stage! It works great on them. This got me thinking and I've decided that this is one more case where it can be risky (wrong word...no real worries...) to generalize.



Today's single-stage is *VERY* different from the single stage of days gone by (the stuff the Pure Polishes was originally designed for).



No, you won't have any problems doing the Pure Polish/glaze then wax approach. But I bet you wouldn't have any problems doing something more "modern" either. Probably just another one of those personal preference things...but I myself would probably do the #5 (eh...I mean #3 ) followed by the wax just because I'm sure I'd like the look a whole lot better on that paint.