Interesting observation on Toyotas...

JaredPointer

JaredPointer

COME AT ME BRO
Disclaimer: This is solely in reference to the Toyotas I have personally owned and had the opportunity to inspect closely.

I have been working on our new Highlander, getting it prepped and protected. One thing that I have really noticed with this vehicle is that the build quality is superb. Much better than my Tacoma, of the same year. Matter of fact, thinking back to the other Tacomas I have had, the fit and finish on the Highlander is much better compared to them as well.

Of the Tacomas I have had, three were built in California, with the current one being built in Mexico. By "being built" I mean the final point of assembly (i.e. the factory). The Highlander was assembled in Japan. This got me thinking - compared to the US built and Mexican built models I have had versus this Japan model, is the quality control in Japan just that much better? Or am I just being nitpicky?

Some things I am talking about are gaps between panels, interior plastics, and most definitely the final quality of the paint finish. There was hardly a spot on the Highlander that I would really consider that needed correcting, however on my Tacoma it looked like a hack had been going to town on it with wetsanding paper. Little things like that that seem to add up that make the Japanese assembled vehicle seem to be of better quality.

Of course, between final assembly and delivery to the port and then delivery to the stealership, a million things could go wrong. And granted, I am not working with the biggest sample of vehicles here. Also, comparing one model to another, there could be different tolerances, etc. I am kinda curious if anyone else has noticed this about any other make/model car. Just seems to be pretty glaring differences to me. :crazy:
 
I have never owned a toy but I have read several posts that agree with you that the ones made in Japan are better quality.
My grandson works for Toyota at Lexington,Ky as a tool maker and they have sent him to their California plant for like 3 weeks at a time to straighten things out for them.
He said the people working in tool and die their don't know how to do anything.
Could be it depends on what plant made the stamped panels as how well they fit.
I just bought a new Ford and you can sure see that they have really stepped up their quality all of the auto company are trying harder now to build a better vehicle.
 
I once heard something of a 50 year war where Japan was going to kick our butts economically. Maybe they have extended that to 100 years.
 
Re: Interesting observation on Toyota's...

We have 2 in the fleet here Mom has 2000 CAMRAY with 45000 miles silver color. And we also have a 2003 Toyota 4 -runner with 26000 miles. I would have to say both are silver color outside and both still have perfect paint jobs. The quality in the cars is very noticeable in 1 easy test, Shutting the doors.

You close the door on the 4runner then shut a door on an American car. The quality is much different, they are solid, quiet, and the body panel lines are perfectly aligned. The electrical systems are much better,than on the American cars even on the older Toyota models. You never hear of wiring problems from broken wires on the japanese vehicles.

Sure both vehicles are garage kept, but still See salty roads in the winter here. They both have never required anything but routine maintenance just an oil change and filters. The camry has had a timing belt at 42000 because of a water pump problem, and decided to do the timing belt while this was apart. I am sure any 9 going on 10 year old American car would have seen much more in the way of maintenance requirements up to this point.This said these are people that were dye hard GM owners for years. This is not a budget buying choice just 2 people knowing and experiencing quality in there daily driven vehicle selection.

I just purchased a 2008 gmc and the first thing I did was purchase the major guard extended warranty. I have owned enough of Detroit's stuff to know I could of purchased a Monday,Wednesday,or late Friday after noon assembled car (CYA). My mom didn't raise a fool.

Honda by the way is also a best buy in mho. :howdy
 
I think if you look at the cost of a Toyota (materials, labor, company overhead, warranty expenses expected, etc) that in a Toyota you are actually getting more car for your money than a domestic car. For example, if you know from history that a car will likely be in for warranty several times over the period, you will have to add this to the cost and counter with finding savings somewhere else (the design).

The domestic makers have had to skimp on the design, materials, quality control, etc to keep the price down to offset the overhead. Yes, they both have the same basic features.

Quality is a mindset that works from the top of the company down to the employee. The Japanese work ethic works in concert with this approach.
 
Bunky said:
I think if you look at the cost of a Toyota (materials, labor, company overhead, warranty expenses expected, etc) that in a Toyota you are actually getting more car for your money than a domestic car. For example, if you know from history that a car will likely be in for warranty several times over the period, you will have to add this to the cost and counter with finding savings somewhere else (the design).

The domestic makers have had to skimp on the design, materials, quality control, etc to keep the price down to offset the overhead. Yes, they both have the same basic features.

Quality is a mindset that works from the top of the company down to the employee. The Japanese work ethic works in concert with this approach.
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10-15 years ago that was true but if you take the time to research reviews at Edmond's JD Powers and others you will see that things have changed.
Toyota has some models rated #1 but Ford has some models rated #1 times are changing but since most people are not up to speed on this it will continue to hurt domestic sales.
 
Re: Interesting observation on Toyota's...

I inherited my FIL 96 Camry with 130K on it. I recently had it serviced and checked for all possible issues, other than the front brakes needed replacement, it was given a clean bill of health. I can't say that the quality of the materials used are better than the German cars I've owned, but this one is a far side less in upkeep, and gets me where I want to go with no issues. The next time that I look at a new / replacement car for the DD family car. The Japanese cars will get my full attention first
 
black bart said:
10-15 years ago that was true but if you take the time to research reviews at Edmond's JD Powers and others you will see that things have changed.
Toyota has some models rated #1 but Ford has some models rated #1 times are changing but since most people are not up to speed on this it will continue to hurt domestic sales.
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You are discussing reliability.

I own a Ford product and drove Toyota's before making the purchase. The Toyota's look better engineered and used better materials (seats, carpeting, etc) on the interior. Ford may make a reliable vehicle (although mine has had 3 TSB's applied) but there is a quality that is not measured by trips to the dealer.
 
Bunky said:
You are discussing reliability.

I own a Ford product and drove Toyota's before making the purchase. The Toyota's look better engineered and used better materials (seats, carpeting, etc) on the interior. Ford may make a reliable vehicle (although mine has had 3 TSB's applied) but there is a quality that is not measured by trips to the dealer.
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I have to disagree with material quality. It may be a matter of opinion but one of the reasons I chose a F150 over a Tundra was I felt the interior was chincy on the Tundra. The seats were uncomfortable compared to the Ford. I felt the Toyota had more little plastic pieces that had the potential for breaking. Toyota and Lexus carpeting tends to wear faster than Ford's. Toyota carpets are definitely harder to remove stains from than most any other model car I work on. That's my opinion but I have detailed lot's of Fords and lots of Toyota/Lexus and I would rather work on a Ford interior over a Toyota/Lexus interior any day.
 
Troy@DetailCity said:
I have to disagree with material quality. It may be a matter of opinion but one of the reasons I chose a F150 over a Tundra was I felt the interior was chincy on the Tundra. The seats were uncomfortable compared to the Ford. I felt the Toyota had more little plastic pieces that had the potential for breaking. Toyota and Lexus carpeting tends to wear faster than Ford's. Toyota carpets are definitely harder to remove stains from than most any other model car I work on. That's my opinion but I have detailed lot's of Fords and lots of Toyota/Lexus and I would rather work on a Ford interior over a Toyota/Lexus interior any day.
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I am sure you take and put the same person beating up both trucks the ford will NOT outlast a Toyota. I know most animals- people up here using the trucks some loggers and some welders welding on pipe line jobs buy the Toyota's because even after a beating the still have some value. The guy's I am talking about buy a new truck on every job and beat and pound them everyday. Now an f-350 super duty is hard to beat but not an F-150.

They had fords and just toss them in the trash after the job is over. This is local bunch of guys I know that have seen the light so to speek. This is just in the past 1-2 years they guys have started changing there mode of operations. Power and maintenance were big factors in the new found choices by the locals. I am sure your truck troy has Ben used on your job but the roads are like glass down there. Not a pot hole or a ripple to be found not like up here. You could have rubber block suspension and still have a smooth ride down your way.

Could be the people that have fords know before hand not to abuse the carpets because they don't last as long as the others. I think its a personal preference call all the way. I am sure you know what you have cleaned but I don't believe a ford truck has more quality than a Toyota on its best day. And I also know the ford is a cheaper vehicle to buy than a Toyota so this also make a difference in vehicle selection. I have had a few crown Victoria's "police models" they are like the best severe duty cars on the road. They are fast trouble free and cheep to repair. I do like fords but not to say they are better than a Toyota.

Its a good thing they make fords,Chevy's,Toyota's, a shoe for every foot. :howdy
 
Not really the direction I had in mind, but discussion is good none the less.

More specifically, has anyone noticed the differences I have in the same MAKER of vehicle (i.e. Toyota) depending on the assembly location of the vehicle? For example - Japan versus Mexico, or Japan versus Canada?

Didn't really mean to get an import versus domestic discussion going, although I think MY preferences on that area would most definitely be import (Honda, Toyota, etc) based on family and friend vehicles and their related upkeep and problems (or lack thereof). It would be a real tough sell for me to buy a Chevy, Ford or Chrysler vehicle.
 
Sorry to get off topic. I want to point out that I am only making interior comparisons, not the over all truck.

Everyone has their opinion.:cheers: Mine just happens to be right.:D
 
black bart said:
This video shows you how well different brands handle rough roads

Their is peoples perception and then their are real world test that just may open your eyes

YouTube - Ford F150 vs Chevy vs Toyota - Bed Bounce


YouTube - Ford F150 vs Toyota Tundra - Frame Strength
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I am sure MY perception is, I get more at the end "MONEY'S" rather than just watch my cash drop off in rust particles in the driveway. It can have an M-1 frame but if the thing is worth thousands less at the end its not 4 me.:howdy
 
Since 1996 I have purchased various Japanese cars that were J-Spec, made completely in Japan. Friends that bought the same car built in the US have had multiple problems that I never incurred. There IS something to it even though I hate to admit same. This was the case with both Hondas and Toyotas. One was a Mazda sedan which was only built over yonder, damn good ride and served me well. Having said that I now have a J- Spec Toyota with 2600 miles and it has problems...........been to the dealer five times since bought new in Jan of this year. I guess anybody can screw up. I'm to the point of considering Lemon Law filing, Pity.
 
black bart said:
This video shows you how well different brands handle rough roads

Their is peoples perception and then their are real world test that just may open your eyes

YouTube - Ford F150 vs Chevy vs Toyota - Bed Bounce


YouTube - Ford F150 vs Toyota Tundra - Frame Strength
Click to expand...


Interesting videos, however I don't think I've ever seen any roads like that anywhere where I drive. :) Even offorading during hunting season, I hit some pretty rough stuff. If I do encounter something rough, I have enough common sense not to hit it at 30 MPH too.

FWIW, I tried to consider an F-150 when I was truck shopping, but they took a step backwards when they redesigned the 2009's. They front ends are just plain bad, as well as the tailgate and taillights (IMHO, of course). If I could have found a brand new 2008 with all the stuff I wanted, I would have seriously looked into it.

My brother has a 2005 or so King Ranch F-150 that's pretty nice, however he has took a huge hit on "depreciation" over the two or three years he's had it.
 
The problem in manufacturing is in a large part to managing variation. That is, in any mfg process, there is normal variation to the factors. How these are controlled often relates to the final fit/finish of the product. The Japanese were leaders in managing variation and less about focusing on whether the part is dimensionally to print. The key is to get the process dialed in and continue working it by watching for variation (not just of one part of a collection of parts). This is needed to keep dimensions like hood/fender gaps consistent where numerous dimensions add up to make these work. It also means lots of inspections by everyone (not just a quality inspector) checking with gages and other fixtures as they do their work.

It is hard work.
 
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