I need help now!!!

R

rcurley55

New member
Can some one PLEASE help me. I had great visions of a perfect finish when I started the day, now I'm worse then when I began.



So, let me preface this...I have a black honda civic. The paint is in good condition, but I do have a lot of swirl marks and light scratches.



I have purchased the following from CMA



PC 7424 with their pad kit

3M FI-II machine polish

3m SMR for dark cars



I washed and clayed the car this morning, then got to work with the PC. I started with the FI-II with a white pad. Then followed itup with the SMR and a white pad.



Now I have MORE/WORSE swirls then I started with. What gives?!?!?!



I misted the pad with some water, used the PC at a speed of 3.5. I went in a back and forth and sided to side overlapping motion. Once the FI-II started to get dry, I buffed with a MF, then inspected the finish.



Now I have a ton of swirls...what do I do?
 
The white pad that comes with the PC is basicly crap. Was that the white pad you were using?



What did you use to buff off the product after you applied it? It could have been in your technique there.



How long did you work on each area of the car with the product? Polishing out swirls is going to take 2 or 3 times longer than just waxing the car. If you went too fast then its possible that you weren't really getting effective use out of the machine or the products.



What I do when polishing is work on one half of the hood till I get all the swirls out. That way I know what its going to take on the rest of the car. If I know it takes me 20 minutes to totally remove the swirls on one half of the hood then I can get an idea of how long the job is going to take. If I finish too soon then I know that I wasn't very effective most likely. Try just focusing on one area till all the swirls are gone. Not only will it give you a time estimate for the job but it will also help you learn the most effective way to use the combination of PC speed, pad, product and technique.
 
Jngrbrdman said:
The white pad that comes with the PC is basicly crap. Was that the white pad you were using?
Click to expand...

His post says he purchased the PC with CMA's pad kit. Most likely he is using CMA's white pad.



Also, the "basically crap" pad that came with my 7336 has been used for swirl removal with Meguiar's #9, several times with no problems whatsoever. My Meguiar's pads are used for all other polishes, but the original white PC pad doesn't seem to be doing all that bad.:nixweiss



charles
 
He said 'white pad.' That is why I asked the question. Those pads aren't total crap for everything. Waxing seems to be their forte. They fall apart pretty quick from my experience. Maybe I'm just too tough on them. I guess I should amend that and say that they are basicly crap for the way I use them. ;)
 
In terms of matching the product with the pad, why wouldn't he use the CMA Yellow Pad for the first step? The white pad might not be enough with the 3M to get the swirls out.



Have you tried DACP with a yellow pad? More aggressive, yes, but it may be what the job calls for.
 
Thanks for looking....



Yes, it's CMA's white pad....



I buffed the product out using an Ultra MF from microfibertech, so I doubt that they are the source of the swirls.



Thankfully I only did the trunk lid, so I've contained the "damage" to that one spot.



The swirls that are added are confined to running front to back on the trunk lid.



Maybe I'm being too critical and expected my car to have a perfect finish. Are swirls on a black car just part of life? the SMR from 3M didn't even seem to reduce them at all!!!



Is there anyone in the Bay Area who knows what they are doing? If so, I'm willing to pay for a day of lessons with this stuff.....I need help!!!
 
3M SMR is not very aggressive. It's somewhere between #9 and DACP.

How about if he tries his 3M SMR with the yellow pad, and if that doesn't do it, step it up to DACP with the yellow pad.

Thoughts?
 
jcattarulla said:
In terms of matching the product with the pad, why wouldn't he use the CMA Yellow Pad for the first step? The white pad might not be enough with the 3M to get the swirls out.



Have you tried DACP with a yellow pad? More aggressive, yes, but it may be what the job calls for.
Click to expand...



I used the CMA yellow pad for the first step, but then, after noticing the swirls that it added, I called Terry at CMA and he recommended I use the white pad.



I did do a small section of the fender with the yellow pad and the FI-II....then I stopped all together....I noticed that that section of the fender is just hazy....so I have not tried the SMR or the BF polish on that section....



Basically, until I get some help, I don't want to touch the car AT ALL...I'm afraid of what I will do to it...I thought these things were supposed to be safe!!!!



HELP...
 
Sometimes an aggressive polish WILL haze. All compounds do indeed leave a haze, and that is why we back down the scale once we find the right level of aggressiveness to remove the swirls and scratches.

So, for example, this weekend I am going to use DACP with the yellow pad on the hood of my black BMW. I know I need to go as high on the aggressive scale as DACP bcs I previously tried 3M SMR with the yellow pad and it wasn't enough (we start gentle and gradually move up the scale until we find the right level of agressiveness to do the job.)



Now, the DACP with the yellow pad MAY cause my hood to look hazed. So next we move back down the scale, and I'll use #9, and then if it's still a little hazed, I'll use #7. By that point, there should be no more hazing and I'll be ready to wax.



Comments?
 
I'm comfortable with the idea of a compound or aggressive cutter hazing the surface, then following that up with a polish that will return the shine...



I just don't understand why I have more swirls now, when the products I'm using should be removing imperfections...not adding them
 
rightlane said:
Try this link for Davids video:http://autopia-carcare.com/lib/autopia/Buffing768.wmv



Check out Al Boston report on buffing out swirls marks (link is on the home Page) and Geeky Steve has an excellent article on the use of the PC but I can not find the link ,so you might want to PM steve.



good luck
Click to expand...



I actually have that video, and followed it as best I could



I may have to PM steve then...I've read his article on roadfly.org as well.



I'll post some pics to show you what I'm talking about.
 
I'm going with what Jngrbrdman and others have said to similar problems: You're probably not working the product long enough. I haven't used my PC much yet, but that's what's been said in the past when people have problems with hazing with FI-II or SMR. When used properly, neither of these polishes should leave a haze and are both final or semi-final polishes (last step before glazing/waxing).



If the product is drying out prematurely you can give it a light spritz of QD to re-wet it a bit.



Oh yeah, I forgot to mention - if you read some of Carguy's archived threads you'll find out FI-II has to be worked in for a very very long time. That's why I don't think I'll ever be using that product myself...
 
This may be off base, but I'd suggest a higher speed setting (5 or 6) for FI-II . . . it takes quite a bit of action to get the abrasives to break down. I've had the best luck working FI-II until almost completely gone; if the FI-II residue was at all difficult to remove, try working it longer. Try to take it off too soon, and it can be a real bear - when you've worked it long enough it comes off without a great deal of effort. As a point of reference, it usually takes me several minutes to polish a single section. Maybe I'm slow, but if I try to rush it, I end up with the hazing and swirls you've experienced.



Also, don't be afraid to use a decent amount of pressure for the first few passes when working a section . . . gradually lessen the pressure as the polish begins to dry out, until at the very end of a section, you're using only the machine's weight on the paint.



I've been able to go straight to sealing after FI-II . . . if you can get the technique right (which is, unforunately, something you have to really get the hang of by "doing" rather than reading), it leaves a pretty acceptable gloss without following up with a milder polish. At least, I've found that to be true on lighter colored cars like my silver WRX; black may benefit significantly from a second go-round with something milder.



Good luck, and don't give up . . . my first couple of outings with FI-II and the PC were a bit frustrating, too.



Tort



P.S. One more thing: where are you located? There might be an Autopian near you that could give some hands-on advice.
 
TortoiseAWD said:
This may be off base, but I'd suggest a higher speed setting (5 or 6) for FI-II . . . it takes quite a bit of action to get the abrasives to break down. I've had the best luck working FI-II until almost completely gone; if the FI-II residue was at all difficult to remove, try working it longer. Try to take it off too soon, and it can be a real bear - when you've worked it long enough it comes off without a great deal of effort. As a point of reference, it usually takes me several minutes to polish a single section. Maybe I'm slow, but if I try to rush it, I end up with the hazing and swirls you've experienced.
Click to expand...



Looks lilke I may not have been patient enough...I was told that if you work it until it's dry, you will add swirls....so who's right? I ran it on 3.4-4 with only the weight of the machine. I made maybe 8 passes on the panel, the removed, but it seemed to be a bit liquidy...definitly not dry....is this the problem?!?!?



Good luck, and don't give up . . . my first couple of outings with FI-II and the PC were a bit frustrating, too.



Tort
Click to expand...



Thanks for the words of encouragement...I was ready to roll the car off a cliff earlier today....



Keep them all coming.



BTW...nice work on the VW Beetle in that link...great results...that's what I'm looking for.
 
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