I am POed... Need to improve on this next detail!

[carter840]

So a couple months ago I tried my own detail on my 2006 RR HSE using a PC. I made two crucial mistakes:

1) I used mothers cleaner wax after my sealant and everything else

2) I didn't have the Menzerna Intensive Polish I thought I did.



Anyway I go to the local hand car wash place today (they also do detailing and are always trying to push that service), and tell the owner that do to cost I tried my own detail. last time I was there the whole car was covered in a film and the paint was in bad shape.



He immediately started ripping my work and looking at the seams between panel and rummer finishings shaking his head. I explained that I only had one day and obviously would have like to have spent more time, but you can only do so much as one person. It was also my first attempt and I explained the two above mentioned mistakes.



This guy then made a mockery of me in front of all the customers saying I wasted my time and he could have done the work I did in 45 minutes. I told him if he can wash and clay a range rover in 45 minutes with one person let alone polish it then I would never take my car to him for a detail. I walked him through my whole process explaining where I went wrong and he shot down everything I said. He was laughing that I didn't compound the car, and pointed over to some very large (10 inch or so) green and yellow pads, I also saw a makita polisher of some sort on the ground. I explained that I believed they (the pads that is) were to aggressive and not appropriate on such a new car. Am I right? Do I need to compound the car before polishing, and if so how and with what?



I obviously messed a couple things up and know that, but this time I want to get it completely right. Here is what I did and what I plan to do next time. I would really appreciate your help. I like to get things right and like to do the work myself, so this is really bugging me. I know I didn't do it right, but believe that this guys methods (ie the green and yellow pad) are wrong too and I want to prove that.



My Last Attempt (errors as noted)

1) Wash

2)Clay with soapy water

3) Wash

4) Polish with Menzerna finishing polish and white pad (didn't have the intensive which I would have used with an orange pad)

5) Menzerna Finishing Glaze

6) Menzerna FMJ

7) Mothers Cleaner wax (Newb mistake I thought because it was carnuba it could top sealant, but the clearer aspect-Yeah)



Proposed New attempt

1)Wash

2)No Clay because I did it recently and paint feels smooth

3)KIO Cleaner wax?

3)Polish with Menzerna Intensive polish and Orange Pad

4)Polish with Menzerna Finishing polish with White pad

5)Menzerna Finishing Glaze (By hand or machine???)

6)Menzerna FMJ (By hand or machine???)

7)P21S 100% Carnuba (Is this okay on top of FMJ?)



This is really bugging me so thanks for the help and thanks for reading this long post.

 

[Ch96067]

Good luck with the new attempt.



Since you already have all that sealant and wax on from the previous attempt, I would think that it is still there (even diminished). So probably it would be a good idea to take it off. Possible routes for that would be dawn wash, or chemical guys citrus at stripping dosage or some other stripping off wash that someone will suggest. Probably claying will not be needed, but just try the bag test to see for yourself.



Then on the new steps you propose. Not sure what KIO is but if it is an all-in-one, then my proposal would be to leave it out.

Regarding polishing steps Intensive and orange sounds OK. Perhaps you could change white pad to grey for the finishing (is that 106 or 85?) to go for jeweling.



I would do the glaze by machine (again grey pad) and the FMJ by hand. As for the wax I have topped another sealant (fk1000p) with P21S carnauba (not 100%) with no issue. Perhaps someone else who has tried the combo you mention can help better.

 

[carter840]

Good luck with the new attempt.



Since you already have all that sealant and wax on from the previous attempt, I would think that it is still there (even diminished). So probably it would be a good idea to take it off. Possible routes for that would be dawn wash, or chemical guys citrus at stripping dosage or some other stripping off wash that someone will suggest. Probably claying will not be needed, but just try the bag test to see for yourself.



Then on the new steps you propose. Not sure what KIO is but if it is an all-in-one, then my proposal would be to leave it out.

Regarding polishing steps Intensive and orange sounds OK. Perhaps you could change white pad to grey for the finishing (is that 106 or 85?) to go for jeweling.



I would do the glaze by machine (again grey pad) and the FMJ by hand. As for the wax I have topped another sealant (fk1000p) with P21S carnauba (not 100%) with no issue. Perhaps someone else who has tried the combo you mention can help better.

Thanks for the reply:



I don't know what the finishing polish is since when I got it from menzerna years ago they didn't have the numbers.



Also I meant KAIO haha.



I guess my big questions though is do I need to compound? Is Orange pad with intensive polish a deep enough cut? I have RDS, light water spots (back since the last detail), and a little swirling left.



Also I have some tar on the lower passenger side door panel that would just not come off, any suggestions?

 

[Accumulator]

So a couple months ago I tried my own detail on my 2006 RR HSE using a PC. I made two crucial mistakes:

1) I used mothers cleaner wax after my sealant and everything else

2) I didn't have the Menzerna Intensive Polish I thought I did.

Heh, most people do something wrong when they're just starting out. No biggie...move right past it.

Anyway I go to the local hand car wash place today (they also do detailing and are always trying to push that service), and tell the owner that do to cost I tried my own detail. last time I was there the whole car was covered in a film and the paint was in bad shape.

Huh? You got a bit garbled there.. :think:

He immediately started ripping my work... made a mockery of me in front of all the customers saying I wasted my time and he could have done the work I did in 45 minutes.

Don't interact with [jerks] like that. IF he wants to belittle somebody tell him to tell it to somebody who cares and to leave you alone. At about the third word I woulda been shutting the conversation down. [screw] him and people like him.

He was laughing that I didn't compound the car, and pointed over to some very large (10 inch or so) green and yellow pads, I also saw a makita polisher of some sort on the ground. I explained that I believed they (the pads that is) were to aggressive and not appropriate on such a new car. Am I right? Do I need to compound the car before polishing, and if so how and with what?

REPEAT: Don't interact with [jerks] like him. He's an @$$hat. World's full of 'em.



You don't need a rotary, but some people do fine with them even for mild work like on new cars so you can't really generalize. But who cares what he uses, he's lost all credibility with me because he's obviously all about belittling you and that tells me that something's very haywire with him. FWIW, many idiots use rotaries to utterly hack up paint. It's not about the tool (well...it's not about the polisher ).



Do you need to compound? Beats me, I haven't seen your car. But "compounds" are merely aggressive polishes...it's just wordplay. You need to use whatever pads/products are required to do what you want to do.

I obviously messed a couple things up and know that, but this time I want to get it completely right. Here is what I did and what I plan to do next time. I would really appreciate your help. I like to get things right and like to do the work myself, so this is really bugging me. I know I didn't do it right, but believe that this guys methods (ie the green and yellow pad) are wrong too and I want to prove that.

I wouldn't spend two seconds trying to prove/disprove/whatever anything related to that guy. I'd try to never give him a moment's thought ever again. Do your car for you and [whatever verb you like] everybody else. And remember, it can take a while to get really good at this stuff.

My Last Attempt (errors as noted)

1) Wash

2)Clay with soapy water

3) Wash

4) Polish with Menzerna finishing polish and white pad (didn't have the intensive which I would have used with an orange pad)

5) Menzerna Finishing Glaze

6) Menzerna FMJ

7) Mothers Cleaner wax (Newb mistake I thought because it was carnuba it could top sealant, but the clearer aspect-Yeah)



Proposed New attempt

1)Wash

2)No Clay because I did it recently and paint feels smooth

3)KIO Cleaner wax?

3)Polish with Menzerna Intensive polish and Orange Pad

4)Polish with Menzerna Finishing polish with White pad

5)Menzerna Finishing Glaze (By hand or machine???)

6)Menzerna FMJ (By hand or machine???)

7)P21S 100% Carnuba (Is this okay on top of FMJ?)

OK, you're on the right track now :xyxthumbs



Skip the cleaner wax. Go right from the wash/dry to the Menzerna IP/orange (assuming it's really needed). Keep doing that until things are *really* nice, don't rely on the milder polish to do much of anything.



I've never used the Finishing glaze so I dunnno which way to do it. I usually do sealants by hand but that's just me.



I'd skip the P21s topper and just redo the FMJ from time to time.

This is really bugging me so thanks for the help and thanks for reading this long post.

Quit letting stuff (and [jerks] bug you so much. Yeah...easy for *me* to say that, huh?!? Step back, chill out, get your head in the right place, and use the IP/orange to get that HHR looking nice. Give it a quick follow-up with the finishing polish and remember to *INSPECT* it over and over and over in different types of light to make sure things are going well. Don't do the whole car before noticing that you need to do something different.



THEN do the glaze/FMJ and tell yourself that nay-sayers like that jerk were wrong, as they probably are about most stuff Or better yet, don't spend one second thinking about anybody else's opinion than your own. It's your car and all that matters is how *you* feel about its condition.

 

[Bill D]

He's an @$$hat. World's full of 'em.

Great quote! :xyxthumbs So true, they're not worth your while.



Learn and work,learn some more, then work some, learn some more again, work some more again, repeat,repeat. Then the results speak for themselves.

 

[carter840]

Thanks to all for your advice. I know he is phony, and the fact that he was compounding every car that walked in there was an indicator, but I just wanted to make sure I knew what I was doing. I guess what really got me upset, is that I felt I needed to redo it because as I said I didn't do it right last tie. It has nothing to do with what that guy said, but knowing I didn't do something to my full potential irritates me.



Also how can I get rid of that horrible tar? Clay didn't work last time and it is kind of an eye sore.

 

[Ch96067]

On a PC orange and intensive for me is not cutting it enough if you think cutting/compounding is needed on your paint (pics could help). If you need more cut you could go to yellow (provided LC are the pads we are talking about).



These are just from the top of my head suggestions. A more thorough approach would be to take notice of all the comments more experienced people than me will pass on (as I am writing Acc is watching this thread ). Also try searching 'range rover paint' for some thoughts on hardness used techinques etc.



For tar again search for dedicated products (tar-x etc.) using something like 'detarring' 'decontamination' 'degreasing'.

 

[Richard Grasa]

Purple Power at full strength works great for removing tar. I usually spray some on the tar and let it dwell for a few minutes and then spray some on your towel and lightly/moderately rub the tar until it comes off.

 

[Accumulator]

Also how can I get rid of that horrible tar? Clay didn't work last time and it is kind of an eye sore.

Try a solvent-based approach. You might need to find a way to increase the dwell-time, like saturating a rag with the solvent and then propping the rag against the paint with a cardboard box or something. Sooner or later it oughta soften the tar so you can wipe it away. It will also remove any wax/etc. though.

 

[carter840]

Try a solvent-based approach. You might need to find a way to increase the dwell-time, like saturating a rag with the solvent and then propping the rag against the paint with a cardboard box or something. Sooner or later it oughta soften the tar so you can wipe it away. It will also remove any wax/etc. though.

Can someone recomend a specific (full name) product for removing the tar? I looked up purple power, but got a bunch of different cleaners.



I also have a similar issue with some yellow curb paint on a lower panel that didn't come off with clay.



I will get some pictures tomorrow for you guys. The thing is I am really busy in life right now so if I am going to spend another full day on this I want it to be a good as possible. In other words I would like to have minimal regrets afterwards.



I was just reading in an older thread that some recommend using KAIO after a polish. It seems that KAIO is such a popular item maybe it should be used? I am also thinking that since I am ordering polish I should also get a new sealant and anything else I might need. The FMJ I have is old, and is running low. I was planning on paying for some P21S, but now I think I will get another LSP instead. I am thinking WGDGS, but will this work with the menzerna glaze? Should I even use a glaze, and if so can I use menzerna glaze with WGDGS? I could also get the new Menzena LSP, but since it is different then FMJ it might also not work well with the old menzerna glaze? So many questions, but I would really like to get the shine I see all of you posting. I know it takes time and a few tries and patience, but hopefully this time I get one step closer to perfection. The last detail took me about 10 hours, but the paint was highly contaminated and I am hoping this time will be faster.





Also for black trim is there a good product that will get a little gloss back into it. I also have some grey trim that is discolored any suggestions? I am excited about this new attempt, I need to get some work done now though. This had me distracted for a few hours. LOL

 

[wascallyrabbit]

car pro tar x, stoner's tarminator are two that have worked for me. for the yellow paint, clay and repeat till gone. there is a traffic paint remover (can't remember the name) but i've not used.



kaio is a good base to put most sealants over.

 

[Richard Grasa]

This is the Purple Power I use. It also comes in spray bottles but the larger sizes seem to be more concentrated. I use it for tar, tree sap, anything that requires a good heavy degreaser. Very cheap and a great product. I think you can find it at Walmart, Advance Auto, etc.



Purple Power All Purpose Cleaning Solution 1 Gallon 4320-9

 

[Thomas Dekany]

Make sure to tape all trim if you are using an orange or yellow pad. If clay doesn't work, use nail polish remover for the yellow paint.

 

[Accumulator]

Can someone recomend a specific (full name) product for removing the tar? I looked up purple power, but got a bunch of different cleaners.

I use AutInt/ValuGard's "New Car Prep", but that's not exactly commonly available.

I also have a similar issue with some yellow curb paint on a lower panel that didn't come off with clay.

I softened some with FK1119 (loooong dwell time), then got it off with a plastic razor blade and clay.

I was just reading in an older thread that some recommend using KAIO after a polish. It seems that KAIO is such a popular item maybe it should be used? I am also thinking that since I am ordering polish I should also get a new sealant and anything else I might need

Eh, I dunno if the KAIO is what you need, though it's sure swell stuff to have around.

The FMJ I have is old, and is running low.

Eh, my liquid sealants are all five-ten years old and they're OK. And it oughta take far less than an ounce to do your car. But OK, if *I* were buying a sealant I'd by FK1000P or Collinite 845 (OK, that stuff is kinda a wax) and I'd just skip the Menzerna glaze.

Also for black trim is there a good product that will get a little gloss back into it. I also have some grey trim that is discolored any suggestions? I am excited about this new attempt, I need to get some work done now though. This had me distracted for a few hours. LOL

I generally use KAIO (hey, maybe you oughta buy some after all) topped with something like Collinite 845. Hm....maybe that'd be an OK approach for the whole car. It's kinda handy being able to use/get the same stuff on the trim with no worries.



AutoInt/ValuGard sells an "ETR" (Exterior Trim Restoration or something like that) kit that might be perfect for the discolored stuff.



I know I'm going back and forth and suggesting stuff that's kinda off the beaten track...there are a lot of ways to go about this stuff and if Iwere you I'd probably concentrate on the polishing for now.



And heh heh...ten hours isn't long for a full detail in my book; I spend *days* on such stuff when starting from scratch.

 

[carter840]

Alright so basically it is between the following three approaches now:

After polish

1)Menzerna Glaze topped with Menzerna FMJ

2)KAIO with WGDGS

3)KAIO with Collinite 845



I am looking for looks and then durability, which of the above would you folks go with. Assume that cost of these products is not a concern since the time I will spend applying them will be the real expense.

 

[Accumulator]

Never used the Menzerna or WG myself...might be a toss-up between those and the 845 since some paints "like/dislike" certain LSPs.



Eh, FWIW (and that might be "nothing" ), these days I'm usually doing ZAIO topped with FK1000P.

 

[carter840]

Alright I did a little more research it seems that a lot of people don't really like WG, and although many do like FK1000P the consensus seems to be that it is better used on lite colored cars. My SUV is dark blue (almost black) so I don't think it's a wise choice.



At this point I am confident in KAIO then 845. It should allow me to bring some life back into my trim as well. I will take pictures tonight in the parking garage to try and show you folks what I am dealing with and the condition of my cars paint. I spent a lot of last night watching some of you pros do details in time lapses and I have so much respect for your patience and perfection.

 

[Accumulator]

carter840- OK, you sure won't go wrong with the 845.



BUT...heh heh, some people think 845 looks a bit too "bright"/"shallow"/"reflective" on dark colors too. Eh, I'm using it on a dark blue Audi and I like how it looks on that. Last time it was at the Audi dealer they called to find out what wax was on it because so many people were asking why it looked so swell (and it's my winter beater!).



Generally, don't get too caught up in the light/dark paint thing. I used FK1000P on my Carbon Metallic Yukon (black metallic) and I thought it looked good, a lot better than I'd expected and on man did it get lots of compliments.