HP wars...what will Ford do next?

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imported_Jayhawker

New member
I just saw a video on the Challenger, and I must say it was quite impressive. With Chevy using the 6.0 liter and Dodge using the 6.1, I am curious how Ford plans on keeping up. The 4.6 in the Mustang is a solid motor, but with the other "2" going with larger displacements, will it be enough for Ford to keep up? I know they (Ford) have the GT500 but that has a huge premium that Camaro and Challenger will not have.



Will it be wise of Ford to increase power in the 4.6 and compete with its own GT500? I'm amazed that HP is the hot thing right now with what's going on in the Middle East. I was too young to remember anything about the last "gas crunch" in the 70's. Time will tell.



Just an FYI...I have no loyalty to any of the Big 3.
 
If you look at it objectively, Ford hasn't kept up since about 1993 (when the Camaro recieved the LT1). Hell a stock '98 Z/28 used to walk my friends '00 Mustang GT that had full exhaust work (headers, 2 1/2 pipes, no cats) and a 75 hp shot of nos. My Z28 used to walk Cobras by a long shot.
 
I don't know if I would agree with the last post...



The Camaro has not received the LT1 -- at least not as I understand it. Rather, it would be the a version of the LS3 that produces around 400 hp.



Already there is talk of a Z28 version with a Roots style charger, obviously this will up the ante for the Camaro. When that happens, is the Camaro (Z28) trying to keep pace with the Mustang 4.6L or is taking on the big boy GT500 with the 5.4L? I think the answer to that is fairly obvious.



There are signficant differences of granularity among the Mustangs -- and so there shall be between Chevy's new eye candy. The question will be price.



All-in-all, I'm happy to see some muscle coming to the street. We'll see another wave as we move fossil, but for now, if you've got the ca$h, the Camaro Z28 and the GT500 are very nice machines to own.



Cheers.
 
As much as I am sure any manufacturer would love to have the HP crown, the bottom line is sales. As long as the sales for the Mustang stay strong I seriously doubt Ford will worry about the HP race. If you look at Mustang sales, the V6 far outpaces any of the other models which is how it has always been...



Here is an interesting article from Motor Trend on possibilities in the near future of the Mustang.



2010 Ford Mustang - Future Vehicles - Motor Trend
 
jalcombright said:
I don't know if I would agree with the last post...



The Camaro has not received the LT1 -- at least not as I understand it. Rather, it would be the a version of the LS3 that produces around 400 hp.
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he is talking about 93-97 Camzro Z28 that had the LT1
 
What will EVERYONE do when the combined EPA mileage for 2020 will be 35 MPG??!! I think the HP wars will be coming to an end. Sad!
 
kkreit01 said:
What will EVERYONE do when the combined EPA mileage for 2020 will be 35 MPG??!! I think the HP wars will be coming to an end. Sad!
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There was a bit on that in the article I linked above.



But here's the shock news: We hear there is a faction at Ford seriously contemplating fitting the new twin turbo EcoBoost V-6 to the 2010 Mustang. As they try to figure out how to meet 35mpg CAFE by 2020, Ford engineers are wondering whether the V-8 has a long term future. The EcoBoost engine, which is currently scheduled to debut in a performance version of the Fusion, could be the more fuel efficient alternative for Mustang in the long term. Depending on spec, the EcoBoost is capable of up to at least 415hp, and has the torque to match a regular V-8.
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The articles states the V6 would not replace the V8 but rather be another option...
 
Ford has never stayed in the game w/o forced induction... they'll stay w/ smaller engines and just throw blowers on them... thats their way.
 
I think it's difficult to say how much longer we'll have gas guzzling muscle cars around...



The Ford guys, the Chevy guys, and the Mopar guys all need to quit arguing over who's car is better and just enjoy them while they are true to the heritage. If EPA restrictions get tight, we may end up looking at sport bikes for a speed fix.
 
truzoom said:
I think it's difficult to say how much longer we'll have gas guzzling muscle cars around...



The Ford guys, the Chevy guys, and the Mopar guys all need to quit arguing over who's car is better and just enjoy them while they are true to the heritage. If EPA restrictions get tight, we may end up looking at sport bikes for a speed fix.
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They said that in the 70s when V8s were making 150 hp and getting 12 mpg. Now we have 505 hp V8s (Z06) that get 16/26 mpg and burn a lot cleaner than any mid 70s car could ever hope to. I think they will find a way to improve mileage and still offer excellent performance.
 
Great thread! First off, I just had to go to 4 gas stations to get gas as all of them were out of gas. This is just down right scary. And owning a gas guzler myself is not a great feeling at all.



Second, my friend who was in the gas crush back in the days said, it's happening all over again. He was rather a lucky one back in the day who had money and benefited from it. He picked up three 67 and 68 Shelby GT 500's for dirt cheap money as no one wanted them cause they were big block gas guzzlers.



I just hope the technology does allow for more HP and gas EPA in the 30's.
 
I remember back in the late 80's and early 90's (i'm 37) the F body Mustang ruled the roost. Other than the Buick Grand National and Vette, there wasn't much (American that is) that would run with a 5.0 Mustang. Heck, I don't think that Mopar was even in the game then. Are any of you old enough to remember the SVO Mustang?



There are so many changes that are going on today, it will be very interesting to see what Ford does.
 
Ah yes the little 4 banger that could take 5.0 very nice cars.

Ford has never stayed in the game w/o forced induction... they'll stay w/ smaller engines and just throw blowers on them... thats their way.
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How you you figure? The fact that N/A the mustangs 281 motors have made 1 hp per cubic inch has kept them in the game.
 
Jayhawker said:
I remember back in the late 80's and early 90's (i'm 37) the F body Mustang ruled the roost. Other than the Buick Grand National and Vette, there wasn't much (American that is) that would run with a 5.0 Mustang. Heck, I don't think that Mopar was even in the game then. Are any of you old enough to remember the SVO Mustang?



There are so many changes that are going on today, it will be very interesting to see what Ford does.
Click to expand...



Chrysler/Mopar had a few rare fwd quick Turbos back then, but no direct competition to Mustangs/Camaros. The Daytona IROC R/T, Sprit R/T, and a few Shelbys come to mind.
 
wytstang said:
How you you figure? The fact that N/A the mustangs 281 motors have made 1 hp per cubic inch has kept them in the game.
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1hp p/cubic inch in a 281 < the LS2 (364 cubic inches putting out 400hp)



The ratio of HP to cubes is something GM will always win... ford uses blowers to make power. In recent memory when has anything ford put out stacked up to its GM couterpart without the help of a blower??



Admitting my bowtie bias here, but compare the past few generations of F-Body's (maros, and trans ams) to the equivalent on the blue oval side (mustang GT/Cobra) All of the high performance ford platforms have had to throw a huffer on top of their anemic rod throwing engines to keep up with the power the GM platforms are putting out NA!!



****... even at the upper eschelon if we compare the supercar from each side... the GT500 vs. the Z06 Vette... even there the ford guys had to throw a blower on top and still get beat down by the NA vette.



I know its going to be hard to admit as a ford fan, but you have to concede that GM has PERFECTED the pushrod V8 over the last few decades to a point that Ford or Crystler can't ever hope to catch up... the LSx based platform is bar none the single greatest and most versatile push rod V8 ever developed and it just keeps getting better.



Thats not to entirely discredit fords offerings... the mustang is a nice car... not my cup of tea, but they're damn respectable and put down insane power with small things like pully swaps, etc. My point was that ford has relied so heavily on FI of late that I don't think they could put out a high HP vehicle without a SCr on it. I myself have always just preferred a stronger platform to build on... making power on the motor is always better IMO... still leaves the door open for adding FI later to really take it to the next level.
 
Jayhawker said:
I remember back in the late 80's and early 90's (i'm 37) the F body Mustang ruled the roost. Other than the Buick Grand National and Vette, there wasn't much (American that is) that would run with a 5.0 Mustang. Heck, I don't think that Mopar was even in the game then. Are any of you old enough to remember the SVO Mustang?



There are so many changes that are going on today, it will be very interesting to see what Ford does.
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Do you remember the Merkur XR4TI and the Scorpio?
 
Dylan06SS said:
1hp p/cubic inch in a 281 < the LS2 (364 cubic inches putting out 400hp)
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Never said Chevy didn't match the 1 hp per cubic inch, you said Ford couldn't make power without a blower and were "out the game". When in fact Ford went to an even smaller motor and made more power and reached the 1h/1cu.



The ratio of HP to cubes is something GM will always win... ford uses blowers to make power. In recent memory when has anything ford put out stacked up to its GM couterpart without the help of a blower??
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Maybe you missed the 80's when the 5.0's were a huge force to reckon with at the track. The fact is bolt-on 5.0 were taking down 350 maros at the track often. You seem to be stuck on blowers and hp/tq numbers and forgetting about power the weight ratio which is were the stang made up for the lack of power.



Admitting my bowtie bias here, but compare the past few generations of F-Body's (maros, and trans ams) to the equivalent on the blue oval side (mustang GT/Cobra) All of the high performance ford platforms have had to throw a huffer on top of their anemic rod throwing engines to keep up with the power the GM platforms are putting out NA!!
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Stock for stock (assuming both drivers have equal skills) Chevy will take the win. BTW Ford motors never had much problems throwing rods (5.0 & 4.6), they had/have problems killing tranny. Just as bad as Chevys can't keep a rear end from letting go.



****... even at the upper eschelon if we compare the supercar from each side... the GT500 vs. the Z06 Vette... even there the ford guys had to throw a blower on top and still get beat down by the NA vette.
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GT500 was a let down *to me* from the get go, they should have let the SVT crew design/build it not Carol Shelby imho. BTW the GT500 is still a mustang so comparing it to a vette is dumb. The vette has always been in a different category then the pony cars especially when it has 7.0 vs 5.4 @8 psi (427 ci vs 330ci). A better comparison would by the Ford GT still using a blown 5.4 but it's overall platform is more even then the other comparison.



I know its going to be hard to admit as a ford fan, but you have to concede that GM has PERFECTED the pushrod V8 over the last few decades to a point that Ford or Crystler can't ever hope to catch up... the LSx based platform is bar none the single greatest and most versatile push rod V8 ever developed and it just keeps getting better.
Click to expand...

Negative I'm not brand loyal so I don't have to admit a thing lol. Chevy didn't perfect the push rod v8, they perfected the 350 the same way Ford perfected the 302 (and F-150; Chevy pick up {that Ford out sell}).



Thats not to entirely discredit fords offerings... the mustang is a nice car... not my cup of tea, but they're damn respectable and put down insane power with small things like pully swaps, etc. My point was that ford has relied so heavily on FI of late that I don't think they could put out a high HP vehicle without a SCr on it. I myself have always just preferred a stronger platform to build on... making power on the motor is always better IMO... still leaves the door open for adding FI later to really take it to the next level.
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+1; Like I mentioned I'm not brand loyal I do prefer Fords interior over Chevys 90% of the time. I like the S10/Colorado over the Ranger but I still hate the interiors, they are just to plain and cheap looking (more so then Fords).
 
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