How well are products mixed from the factory?

B

BlackElantraGT

New member
I have 2 gallons of CG's Citrus Wash n' Gloss. For those that have this product, I'm sure they know this is a product that has to be well shaken because whatever is in it separates and settles when not in use. IIRC, I remember a member stating on here the top layer that settles on the top are the glossing agents.



I noticed the new jug I had seemed to have more of the "glossing" agents vs the yellow "citrus" part, but I thought it was all in my imagination since it's been awhile since I bought my jug, plus my jug is getting used so it's more shaken and mixed up than the new one just sitting in the house.



Keep in mind that my current jug is already about 1/3rd used up, and before each use it was well shaken. A couple of days prior, I had shaken both jugs up at the same time. Tonight, I noticed that my partially used, old gallon still has more of the yellow "citrus" part than the new gallon, which seems to consist of 1/6th of the yellow part, and the rest filled with the "glossing" agents.



This kind of bothers me because I have a few other of CG's products and their products seems to require more shaking compared to other detailing products because of product separation/settling. It makes me wonder how well their products are mixed before being poured. Will my new gallon work as well as my old gallon of CG Wash n' Gloss? I have a feeling I won't be getting the same, desired results.



I've also noticed product variations/inconsistencies at their actual store and on their website. For example, my bottle of Blitz Spray Sealant looks milky, whereas on the website it looks clear. They also have different versions of the same products. For example, Paul showed me 2 versions of Fabric Guard. One, had a strong, chemical (solvent?) smell whereas the other he said was water-based. Except on their website, there's nothing stating there are 2 versions of the same product nor the option to pick which one you want. Maybe this is for VOC reasons and people that order from certain states (like California) get the water-based version?



So do you think it could be possible that product inconsistencies (poor quality control) could be the reason why some products work so great for some and poorly for others? This isn't just about CG, but any detailing product/company in general.
 
The jug I have left seems to split almost 50/50.I think there is some inconsistences or the main container that they fill the gallon jugs up with is not mixed up well.
 
ubershall, I hope you don't take this the wrong way since this was the gallon I got from you. I know that this was something from the factory because you sent me a full, brand new gallon.
 
The CG quality control problems, accidental or on purpose (depending on who is telling the story), are the stuff of legend. I heard the "bait and switch" story, where they provide/sell some really great stuff, and once the user finds out how great it is and switch over to it, they purposely degrade the quality (provide cheaper product), hoping the user won't notice (this is the kind of thing where you would demo the product, and make the first shipment, the same, then suddenly or gradually degrade it). The other story is that they just never make the stuff the same way twice cuz they are so sloppy.



Yours is the first actual non-sour-grapes account I have heard, however. Bear in mind that they are not "inventing" anything at CG's, and they don't seem shy about using whatever names/hyperbole are required to move (overlapping) product.
 
BlackElantraGT said:
ubershall, I hope you don't take this the wrong way since this was the gallon I got from you. I know that this was something from the factory because you sent me a full, brand new gallon.
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Nothing taken wrong bro but I noticed the same thing I have had 4 gallons of this stuff and none of them has been the same.They have had been diffrent in color(some dark yellow to some light yellow)and also seperation some settle more than others.But they are consistant in the fact that it is a super strong wash just a little too much a bye-bye wax.
 
uberschall said:
Nothing taken wrong bro but I noticed the same thing I have had 4 gallons of this stuff and none of them has been the same.They have had been diffrent in color(some dark yellow to some light yellow)and also seperation some settle more than others.But they are consistant in the fact that it is a super strong wash just a little too much a bye-bye wax.
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Thanks for your insight on this. For me, that's a little more comforting to know that it's still a super strong wash because that's what I use it for. I don't care for it all that much as regular soap, but it seems to work really well as a paint cleanser. I am hoping the product works the same at the same dilutions, but from a visual aspect, I don't know how that can be possible when it appears to look chemically different. I have some products that turn a different color, but I don't think that's the case here because whatever is in this product separates and settles when not in use.



If all 4 of your gallons looked different, that seems to support my theory that maybe it's not mixed well enough from the factory and the product will be different depending on when it was poured, despite being from the same batch. Besides Meguiar's, do you guys think that any of the smaller companies go through a certification process to insure uniform, quality control?



Based on how recent WOWA (Wipe On Walk Away) products came into market at relatively the same time period, it makes me believe that one of the major chemical suppliers/producers developed and recently released some kind of chemical that allows such a product to be made. How that product is made is up to the mixing company. For example, let's say BASF released this new chemical. They sell this to Zaino, Optimum, Four Star, CG, etc and even though they purchased this chemical from the same company, their own formulations of the end product from their own in-house chemist allows each product to work differently.



So if there is any truth to this, it makes me wonder just how much "R&D" goes into making a product at Chemical Guys/Warner Chemicals. They have so many products that do the same thing that it becomes confusing, i.e. F-Seal, M-Seal, Jet Seal. Are their chemists just adding more of chemical X to make it glossier or more of chemical Y to make it more durable? I'm not a chemical expert, but I'm guessing making a product isn't as easy as just throwing some chemicals with certain properties together and then calling it a day. Maybe some chemicals just don't work well with others. This is where the "research" in R&D comes along. Is CG spending more time developing than researching? IIRC, I don't recall anyone here being beta testers for CG's products, just early adopters of the their final products.
 
Sounds like a good question for the folks at CG's. Although, they may not be too comfortable discussing their quality control or lack thereof.
 
BlackElantraGT said:
Thanks for your insight on this. For me, that's a little more comforting to know that it's still a super strong wash because that's what I use it for. I don't care for it all that much as regular soap, but it seems to work really well as a paint cleanser. I am hoping the product works the same at the same dilutions, but from a visual aspect, I don't know how that can be possible when it appears to look chemically different. I have some products that turn a different color, but I don't think that's the case here because whatever is in this product separates and settles when not in use.



If all 4 of your gallons looked different, that seems to support my theory that maybe it's not mixed well enough from the factory and the product will be different depending on when it was poured, despite being from the same batch. Besides Meguiar's, do you guys think that any of the smaller companies go through a certification process to insure uniform, quality control?



Based on how recent WOWA (Wipe On Walk Away) products came into market at relatively the same time period, it makes me believe that one of the major chemical suppliers/producers developed and recently released some kind of chemical that allows such a product to be made. How that product is made is up to the mixing company. For example, let's say BASF released this new chemical. They sell this to Zaino, Optimum, Four Star, CG, etc and even though they purchased this chemical from the same company, their own formulations of the end product from their own in-house chemist allows each product to work differently.



So if there is any truth to this, it makes me wonder just how much "R&D" goes into making a product at Chemical Guys/Warner Chemicals. They have so many products that do the same thing that it becomes confusing, i.e. F-Seal, M-Seal, Jet Seal. Are their chemists just adding more of chemical X to make it glossier or more of chemical Y to make it more durable? I'm not a chemical expert, but I'm guessing making a product isn't as easy as just throwing some chemicals with certain properties together and then calling it a day. Maybe some chemicals just don't work well with others. This is where the "research" in R&D comes along. Is CG spending more time developing than researching? IIRC, I don't recall anyone here being beta testers for CG's products, just early adopters of the their final products.
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Just call chem guys hit the 0 button a couple times and ask paul.He is pretty cool to talk too and see what there side of the story is.
 
I'll admit that my impressions have soured a bit over time.



There are just too many products. I get the impression that they are just trying to recoup some money on over-produced or rejected formulas from the custom blending services or are beta testing on customers...just the impression I get.



The whole stink over the rocket bottle and the skull logo was probably the most damanging thing in my mind.



It just seems like Paul is being overwhelmed.



Rumor is that there will be a wax called Jack's 31 made with Eye of Newt and a Pumpkin Pie scent (J/K)
 
sspeer said:
I get the impression that they are just trying to recoup some money on over-produced or rejected formulas from the custom blending services
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I'm starting to get the same impression also. When I was at the store some months back, I asked Paul why some of the products looked different, even though they were supposedly the same, and he made a comment about them making formulations for all sorts of companies. It was one of those comments that at the time didn't make much sense to me and I didn't think too much about, but now that you mention it, maybe they are just trying to sell surplus products like you say but under a "cooler" name.



Think about it, who would want to buy products from Warner Chemicals? My first impressions just from the name alone would be old school, bulk products. But that's what CG is, just that their name sounds more young and hip. It makes sense for them to branch off and rebrand themselves in this new age of doing business online. If it wasn't for the internet and internet forums, would CG even exist?



Maybe this could be the reason why they compete with their business customers who relabel their products? If I was Adam's or Poorboy's, I wouldn't want to admit to my customers that my products were manufactured by CG, especially when they sell almost the same things, if not the same exact products for much cheaper. While we may or may not agree about some of these companies admitting who makes their products, I find it a bit odd that CG competes for the same market and openly admits to private labeling for other companies.
 
uberschall said:
Nothing taken wrong bro but I noticed the same thing I have had 4 gallons of this stuff and none of them has been the same.They have had been diffrent in color(some dark yellow to some light yellow)and also seperation some settle more than others.But they are consistant in the fact that it is a super strong wash just a little too much a bye-bye wax.
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Same experience here.
 
BlackElantraGT said:
I'm starting to get the same impression also. When I was at the store some months back, I asked Paul why some of the products looked different, even though they were supposedly the same, and he made a comment about them making formulations for all sorts of companies. It was one of those comments that at the time didn't make much sense to me and I didn't think too much about, but now that you mention it, maybe they are just trying to sell surplus products like you say but under a "cooler" name.



Think about it, who would want to buy products from Warner Chemicals? My first impressions just from the name alone would be old school, bulk products. But that's what CG is, just that their name sounds more young and hip. It makes sense for them to branch off and rebrand themselves in this new age of doing business online. If it wasn't for the internet and internet forums, would CG even exist?



Maybe this could be the reason why they compete with their business customers who relabel their products? If I was Adam's or Poorboy's, I wouldn't want to admit to my customers that my products were manufactured by CG, especially when they sell almost the same things, if not the same exact products for much cheaper. While we may or may not agree about some of these companies admitting who makes their products, I find it a bit odd that CG competes for the same market and openly admits to private labeling for other companies.
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Chemical guys DO NOT make poorboys.A chemist who used to work for warner branched off on his own and helped steve(poorboys)with the formula's and manufactures them for poorboys.I do not know the name of the chemical company but it is not chem guys.Just call and ask steve he will tell you.
 
uberschall said:
Chemical guys DO NOT make poorboys.A chemist who used to work for warner branched off on his own and helped steve(poorboys)with the formula's and manufactures them for poorboys.I do not know the name of the chemical company but it is not chem guys.Just call and ask steve he will tell you.
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To me, it doesn't matter who is making them. Other than PB's Spray & Wipe, and Adams QD, the other products that all three of them sell are just average when compared to the top notch products available today.



It sure wouldn't surprise me if there was some "funny stuff" going on at CG.
 
uberschall said:
Chemical guys DO NOT make poorboys.A chemist who used to work for warner branched off on his own and helped steve(poorboys)with the formula's and manufactures them for poorboys.I do not know the name of the chemical company but it is not chem guys.Just call and ask steve he will tell you.
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Yeah, that was the story, alright. :rolleyes:
 
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