How many mobile units are using containment mats?

I

imported_WCD

New member
A local mobile detailer this week said the city has sent him 2 letters requiring him to get a containment mat for his water run-off. I was wondering how many of you are already there and if so, where did you get your device?



Thanks,

R Regan
 
No need. I use QEW. Only time water really hits the ground is when I do the tires....and even that water dries up before I'm done the last tire!:xyxthumbs
 
WCD said:
A local mobile detailer this week said the city has sent him 2 letters requiring him to get a containment mat for his water run-off. I was wondering how many of you are already there and if so, where did you get your device?



Thanks,

R Regan
Click to expand...



Unfortunately I doubt you will get many positive responses regarding this issue. Most will skirt the issue until the government FORCES everyone to use one. I was recently offered the opportunity to wash all the cars at a high profile athletic facility during the morning show of our city's TV station live and on air. We would be given lot's of free publicity out of the event. However, all washing would take place in the middle of the parking lot with all the soap and pollution off the vehicles running directly into the storm runoff sewer. Since we are a fixed location I told the morning show contact that a containment mat was required (we don't have or need one) and she scoffed at me and told me I was full of it. I warned her that both her employer, the gym and the company doing the washing could be legally liable for any runoff and she basically told me I was an idiot and didn't know what I was talking about.

Perception is reality I guess and until people quit putting their heads in the sand on this issue nothing will change. For all the doubters out there have a read of these articles and see if anyone who actually cares about the environment will still be washing their cars or customers cars without containment anymore.



http://www.riversides.org/riversafe/index.html



Go to the newsroom section and check out the articles to see what all those "biodegradable" soaps are doing to the fish population and water supply. It's quite an eye opener.
 
ajbarnes said:
No need. I use QEW. Only time water really hits the ground is when I do the tires....and even that water dries up before I'm done the last tire!:xyxthumbs
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The water may dry up but the soap residues remain and will be washed into the storm sewers the next rainfall (unless of course you use no soaps or cleaners).
 
Lets pretend we removed all the detailers working in a large city, lets say Dallas or Houston for one day.



Now lets pretend that the day the detailers have been removed there is heavy afternoon rain showers. Where does all the gunk from the cars go as they splash through the puddles? What about the oil and gasoline that is lifted off the roads, freeways and parking lots, where does that gunk go?



Well it all goes down the storm drains.



My point here is that if the EPA wishes to enforce containment mats for mobile car detailers they had better think about ways to contain the water runoff from mall parking lots, roads and freeways also. Am I way off base here ?



Anthony
 
Anthony Orosco said:
Lets pretend we removed all the detailers working in a large city, lets say Dallas or Houston for one day.



Now lets pretend that the day the detailers have been removed there is heavy afternoon rain showers. Where does all the gunk from the cars go as they splash through the puddles? What about the oil and gasoline that is lifted off the roads, freeways and parking lots, where does that gunk go?



Well it all goes down the storm drains.



My point here is that if the EPA wishes to enforce containment mats for mobile car detailers they had better think about ways to contain the water runoff from mall parking lots, roads and freeways also. Am I way off base here ?



Anthony
Click to expand...



Good point.:up
 
Anthony Orosco said:
Lets pretend we removed all the detailers working in a large city, lets say Dallas or Houston for one day.



Now lets pretend that the day the detailers have been removed there is heavy afternoon rain showers. Where does all the gunk from the cars go as they splash through the puddles? What about the oil and gasoline that is lifted off the roads, freeways and parking lots, where does that gunk go?



Well it all goes down the storm drains.



My point here is that if the EPA wishes to enforce containment mats for mobile car detailers they had better think about ways to contain the water runoff from mall parking lots, roads and freeways also. Am I way off base here ?



Anthony
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No offence but that's a little self serving Anthony. It's not just detailers that should be concerned about this issue. Anyone washing their cars in their driveway or public place are part of the problem. However, where do you start legislating change? With people who are being paid to be professional detailers. Whether anyone here likes it or not this is not going away. It's coming and you will either have to roll with it or or deal with the consequences. If you read the articles in the link I posted you'll see how it is starting in Toronto. No one would pass legislation that you couldn't wash your car in your driveway but did pass leglisaltion that if you caused or allowed ANY chemicals to runoff into the storm sewers you were liable for a $25000.00 fine.

Whether anyone does get ready for this or not is no matter to me. I am not an environmental nut - just a guy obeying the law in the course of running my business so I have no vested interest in "enforcing" my views. I am just trying to make everyone aware of the problem.
 
Shineshop,



No offense taken at all my friend:)



I understand the problems with soaps and chemicals BUT it's the illogical stance taken that gets me irked.



Take for instance people who wash and detail boats while docked in the water. Have you ever seen the stuff they use to wash the hulls of their boats with? Comet, Bon-Ami, DAWN and a host of other cleaners to shine up the metal. Now I am not saying all boat detailers use these products but many do, as do just regular boat owners, but if the EPA really wanted to crack down on dangers to the water then this would be the first place to start.



Also there are conflicting reports about just how harmful these cleaners are to water and fish, not saying they are false but that there is conflicting reports. What needs to be used are cleaners that are "Bio-Compatible". This means they are useful to the enviroment instead of breaking down, like Biodegardable products do.



Lastly my main argument still stands. A 15 minute, heavy summer, afternoon rain shower here in San Antonio will send down more gas, oil and grease gunk into the storm drains than all the mobile detailers combined. The logic just doesn't make sense to me, it's like trying to do away with illegal drug use by arresting the users and never stopping the suppliers.



You take care,

Anthony
 
Containment mats don't work for mobile detailers because I have try them. If your on a slope the water runs over the edge of the mat, there not safe to walk on and there heavy. If the EPA is going to enforce the clean water act they need to help the business owner to find a better way and profitable way of contain wash water. I think the EPA should enforce the clean water act for everyone not just a few. During the summer months they chip seal the roads here with a nice layer of oil and gravel, I know this runs off into the Boise river but they do every year.



I hear Rightlook.com has a trailer that you can drive the car onto and the wash water drain down into a tank. Not sure what the cost is but it sounds better than a containment mat.
 
I agree that we need to watch what we use and where we use it. I looked into the site listed above. They are right and we need to protect the rivers, but I did not like the fact that all they really said was "take your vehicle to a commerical car wash"



If anything commerical car wash pollute even more then mobile detailers.
 
NY detailer said:
I agree that we need to watch what we use and where we use it. I looked into the site listed above. They are right and we need to protect the rivers, but I did not like the fact that all they really said was "take your vehicle to a commerical car wash"



If anything commerical car wash pollute even more then mobile detailers.
Click to expand...



I hate commercial car washes for the most part but would like to see you back up your statement with facts. Car washes use far less water than washing at home and are regulated to properly dispose and in some cases treat their waste water. Most car washes reclaim their water and re-use it saving even more water.
 
Anthony Orosco said:
Shineshop,



No offense taken at all my friend:)



I understand the problems with soaps and chemicals BUT it's the illogical stance taken that gets me irked.



Take for instance people who wash and detail boats while docked in the water. Have you ever seen the stuff they use to wash the hulls of their boats with? Comet, Bon-Ami, DAWN and a host of other cleaners to shine up the metal. Now I am not saying all boat detailers use these products but many do, as do just regular boat owners, but if the EPA really wanted to crack down on dangers to the water then this would be the first place to start.



Also there are conflicting reports about just how harmful these cleaners are to water and fish, not saying they are false but that there is conflicting reports. What needs to be used are cleaners that are "Bio-Compatible". This means they are useful to the enviroment instead of breaking down, like Biodegardable products do.



Lastly my main argument still stands. A 15 minute, heavy summer, afternoon rain shower here in San Antonio will send down more gas, oil and grease gunk into the storm drains than all the mobile detailers combined. The logic just doesn't make sense to me, it's like trying to do away with illegal drug use by arresting the users and never stopping the suppliers.



You take care,

Anthony
Click to expand...



Anthony, your point is moot. The amount of waste water from home carwashing makes runoff from mobile detailers insignificant but it doesn't make it right. It has to start somewhere. I understand the resistance to change here because first and foremost it isgoing to cost mobile guys money. Well, tough luck guys. Every business is required to operate within the confines of the law whether they like it or not. Using your logic, people could just change their motor oil at home and then dump it in their backyard and say "I know it's polluting but it's nothing compared to the pollution caused by so and so" or whatever they want to justify thier position. Also, I have seen the studies proving the effects of detergents and chemicals on our water supply and would like to see a link to the reports you claim "conflict" with them. I live within 45 minutes of 3 of the great lakes and can say without question that I am concerned by the amount of foaming at the waters edge every time I go to the beach.
 
ShineShop said:
I hate commercial car washes for the most part but would like to see you back up your statement with facts. Car washes use far less water than washing at home and are regulated to properly dispose and in some cases treat their waste water. Most car washes reclaim their water and re-use it saving even more water.
Click to expand...



yes, i agree that they do use less water. it is before your vehicle goes into the wash system where the damage is done.



They spray the wheel cleaner while you are on line. They spray wheel well cleaner will you are on line. All of these chemicals drip off your car into the street, not the filter system of the car wash.



Most of the time when you go to a car wash the drain is clogged anyway.



Now that I think about it, every car wash, mobile or fixed does damage to the environment. we just need to try our best to buy green friendly products. I myself have stopped using acid wheel cleaner for the last year.
 
Yes we do need to take care of the environment. At this time in my area I am not required to use a water matt, that I am aware of.



If i do need to start purchasing water matts and other items to be a green friendly mobile wash. I will just raise the pricing of my services and explain to all customer why the pricing went up.
 
NY detailer said:
Yes we do need to take care of the environment. At this time in my area I am not required to use a water matt, that I am aware of.



If i do need to start purchasing water matts and other items to be a green friendly mobile wash. I will just raise the pricing of my services and explain to all customer why the pricing went up.
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The EPA in the USA requires the use of containment mats regardless of where you live. Enforcement is left to the municipalities and is for the most part lacking which is the biggest part of the problem. I think there should be an even handed approach to this with enforcement for all industries and individuals not one or the other.
 
I just did a search for some water matts. The cost anywhere from $750 and up for the size i would need.



I would need to go out and buy a larger van to carry it. I would still need to dispose of the water somewhere.



Just looked at all my specs on products that wash off the vehicle, they are all green friendly.



To be honest with you, I have never seen a detailer use a water recovery matt.
 
ShineShop said:
Anthony, your point is moot. The amount of waste water from home carwashing makes runoff from mobile detailers insignificant but it doesn't make it right. It has to start somewhere. I understand the resistance to change here because first and foremost it isgoing to cost mobile guys money. Well, tough luck guys. Every business is required to operate within the confines of the law whether they like it or not. Using your logic, people could just change their motor oil at home and then dump it in their backyard and say "I know it's polluting but it's nothing compared to the pollution caused by so and so" or whatever they want to justify thier position. Also, I have seen the studies proving the effects of detergents and chemicals on our water supply and would like to see a link to the reports you claim "conflict" with them. I live within 45 minutes of 3 of the great lakes and can say without question that I am concerned by the amount of foaming at the waters edge every time I go to the beach.
Click to expand...



http://www.cwmb.sa.gov.au/kwc/section1/1-26.htm



http://www.ncpa.org/studies/s165/s165.html



http://www.stonyfield.com/Ido/MythsandFactsAboutWater.shtml



http://nj.npri.org/nj97/08/myths2.htm



These few links do not show that mobile detailers are NOT contributing to water runoff BUT they do show that the greater sources of storm drain pollution comes from the general public - mainly from agriculture and public lawns - and one link shows that our drinking water has actually improved over the years.



Anthony
 
As far as QEW is concerned, below is an excerpt off of their site concerning QEW and the enviroment......



PROTECT YOUR ENVIRONMENT



Clean Water Act and Ground Water Pollution -- Washing without rinsing greatly reduces the discharge of pollutants into storm drains, sewers and the ground water preventing run-off contamination into rivers, lakes, bays and oceans. Quick & Easy Wash helps both commercial and industrial users comply with the discharge guidelines established by the Clean Water Act and the Environmental Protection Agency.





I'm all about the enviroment to be honest with you. That is one of the many reasons I choose to use QEW to service vehicles.
 
Shineshop....



Sorry I forgot to add this to my post. You mentioned how you are worried about the "foam" on the river edges. This is almost always a natural occurence due to natural conditions within the water.



This article explains it better.



What is the foam on the water?

Sometimes foam is the result of pollution, but more often the presence of foam is a completely natural phenomenon. Lakes and rivers with large amounts of organic material can produce foam when the water is turbulent. When aquatic organisms, such as algae, die and begin to decompose, fatty acids are produced. These fatty acids are very similar to those found in common soap products. Wave action or river currents cause the fatty acids to form foam, often accumulating along shorelines and river banks, and in coves or eddies. On some lakes, the foam can form long streaks across the water. Natural foam smells like fish or earth, whereas foam resulting from pollution such as detergent, may have a fragrant, perfume-like smell.
 
Anthony Orosco said:
BUT they do show that the greater sources of storm drain pollution comes from the general public - mainly from agriculture and public lawns - Anthony
Click to expand...



That is very true. I used to be a pest control tech. I know a good deal about the EPA giving that I had to be certified in category 10 & 11 in order to provide service. A whole lotta chemical is sprayed on the exterior of homes to prevent the home from being invaded by pests. That chemical more than likely will run off if the lawn is being watered or if it rains.



The EPA got involved with a class action law suit against a pest control company who pumped a very dangerous termiticide into a lawn that ran off into a near by lake and destroyed majority of the wildlife. Alot of pest control chemicals are pretty dangerous....no where near as dangerous as auto care chemicals.
 
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