HiTemp vs Menzerna

B

bwalker25

New member
I know that this will probably open a can of worms, but hey I am curious!



I have the hi-temp line of products but for some reason they dont do what I want, they dont correct as fast as I think they should, and they dont work as good either. I tried Wolfgang TSR 3.0 and I was shocked, it worked amazingly well, took swirls out in as little as 1 pass on my trunk. I know that TSR 3.0 is made by menzerna so.......



I currently have a UDM and the follow hitemp products

Heavy Cut (357)

Fast Cut

Smooth Cut



I am looking at getting these 2 Menzerna products to replace the 3 above:

SIP

106FA



*reason for this is they are designed for "cermiclear coats" ;)



is this a good idea? I mean 37.95 for a quart is steep considering that I can get all of the HT line in quarts for like 11.95 or less....Can you help me justify menzerna?



I am not happy with the HT line, and am looking for something better, does it have to be menzerna nope, but I just need help choosing something better than HT. perhaps I should consider a rotary....
 
TSR 3.0 cut better than heavy cut? I have both lines, and for me the cut would be something like this.



Hi Temp Extreme 9

Hi Temp Heavy 6

SIP 5

Fast Cut 4

Smooth Cut 3

106ff/a 2

8rd 1



To be honest, I don't use Heavy, Fast, or Smooth cut very often. I do use Extreme Cut quite a bit. I don't think SIP has as much or more cut than Heavy Cut (they are similar, SIP finishes better), so I am not sure that will really please you if you're going for heavy cutting; but I could be wrong. If all you're after is fast, effective cutting, get Megs 105. SIP is definitely good to have around, though; I use it quite a bit after 105 to clean up paint before my last polishing step.
 
Maybe I'm using it wrong, or just wanting results faster than possible.....



I was completly blown away by tsr 3.0, it was a night and day difference what one pass of product did vs. what I was using. same pads same machine, everything the same except the products used.



edit: I've heard you get better results from everything if you use a rotary, perhaps I have something else to consider now....



edit2: perhaps I'm still thinking like this "work smarter not harder" from my old Army days.
 
I've used Hi Temp as well as Menzerna's SIP and also Power Gloss.



The menzerna's power gloss to me is just as tough as HT extreme cuts, but it finishes better.
 
Its not that I dont want to do all the extra work of 3 or 4 steps to get perfection, I am a true believer in Work Smarter not Harder. and if something finishes better than something else then that in itself makes it quicker and easier to use. I have tried M95 and was not that impressed when I used it. OTOH though, I have seen it used by someone else and was shocked at what it would do....



right now I have:

M95, HT 357, HT Fast Cut, Smooth thats it for my polishes/compounds.



Do you find that you get hazing with the Menz. PG, something that SIP or HTFC will get out with little effort?
 
bwalker25 said:
Maybe I'm using it wrong, or just wanting results faster than possible.....



I was completly blown away by tsr 3.0, it was a night and day difference what one pass of product did vs. what I was using. same pads same machine, everything the same except the products used.



edit: I've heard you get better results from everything if you use a rotary, perhaps I have something else to consider now....



edit2: perhaps I'm still thinking like this "work smarter not harder" from my old Army days.
Click to expand...



I understand what you're saying. For guys like me who do this for a living "work smarter, not harder" is a way of life; time is money, right? :)



I don't think you're using it wrong, I forgot you weren't working with a rotary. It's possible the hi temp heavy cut doesn't work as well by DA as TSR 3.0. One question (and I hope no one takes this the wrong way), did you prepsol or isa:water after tsr 3.0? I am not sure if it does any filling, but it's always a possibility.



So is what you're after more cut than TSR 3.0 and heavy cut? If so, I still don't think SIP will really get you a whole lot more cut; but again it is a good product to have on hand. If you want more cut/less time then you're going to need to move up to the heavier compounds, like PG, HTEC, 105, Presta Ultra, etc.



David703 said:
I've used Hi Temp as well as Menzerna's SIP and also Power Gloss.



The menzerna's power gloss to me is just as tough as HT extreme cuts, but it finishes better.
Click to expand...



I agree PG finishes better than HTEC, but I do not get the same cut out of it. PG does cut well, but I find HTEC has slightly more cut, and more working time, and dusts a lot less. It does bog down pads like PG though. I don't know if HTEC will play nice with the PC though.



bwalker25 said:
Its not that I dont want to do all the extra work of 3 or 4 steps to get perfection, I am a true believer in Work Smarter not Harder. and if something finishes better than something else then that in itself makes it quicker and easier to use. I have tried M95 and was not that impressed when I used it. OTOH though, I have seen it used by someone else and was shocked at what it would do....



right now I have:

M95, HT 357, HT Fast Cut, Smooth thats it for my polishes/compounds.



Do you find that you get hazing with the Menz. PG, something that SIP or HTFC will get out with little effort?
Click to expand...



M95 is weird. It has good cut (similar to PG/HTEC, maybe a bit less), but I have a hard time finishing down very clean with it on anything but very hard paint. M105 is a completely different animal. It has as much or more cut, works extremely quickly (which M95 does not) and finishes very clean for a heavy cut compound. I think that's what I would probably recommend you try first. I am sure someone on here has used it via DA and can chime in on how it works. It works well even by hand, so I'd imagine DA will be fine.



PG will leave a lot of haze usually; I do think HTHC or SIP will get it out, but it will require some effort.



Silly question: what kind of car/cars are you working on and how are you finishing now? (Smooth Cut?)



I generally find that *for me* my "go to" combo this past year has been M105 then SIP, then 106ff/fa, FPII or 8rd. I do use HTEC when I need more working time than M105 gets me. I also use presta ultra but I have a feeling that might not play nice with a PC.
 
I am working on Ford/Lincoln/Mercury cars now, non ceramic clear coats. Thats why I was thinking SIP and 106ff would be the perfect setup for me, if its designed for the ceramic clears then it should work wonders on "regular" clears....at least that was what I was thinking ;)



edit 1: also everyone mentions menzerna or optimum all the time, So...I was thinking its got to be better than what I use and possible get results faster and even get better results....
 
ok another question how is the flex...is it a worthy rotary (the light weight one), is it smoother than a UDM (less vibration, less hand numbing after use!)??? How much better is a rotary than a PC/UDM in terms of correction power, on a scale from 1 - 10.
 
Brandon - remember the deal I offered you a few months ago on my makita? Are you saying DOH! FWIW - I would get Menzerna Power Gloss, and 203(the new stuff) and go ahead and either get a Flex or rotary. BTW - I'm really happy with the Flex, if you have time to drop by some Saturday, you're welcome to try it.
 
Jimmy how did you know that I was kicking myself? haha I want so bad to go back in time and get that 9227c off of you, but oh well......



Is your flex the light weight one? if so does it feel cheap? or is it a solid machine?
 
I bought the Flex DA, not the rotary and I'm not missing the rotary - yet. It's night and day difference from the PC though. My PC is just used to get the tight areas with a 4" pad and apply wax/sealers. I only do daily drivers, cars people care about looking clean and shiney without swirls and holograms. I think you could probably get by with Powergloss, IP, 203 and FFII. When I had my Honda, FFII on a white pad would take care of anything, even cat scratches from the herd of felines we're allowing to graze on our farm.
 
JuneBug said:
I bought the Flex DA, not the rotary and I'm not missing the rotary - yet. It's night and day difference from the PC though. My PC is just used to get the tight areas with a 4" pad and apply wax/sealers..
Click to expand...



I've been playing around with my Flex 3401 DA recently too...even on *hard* clear with nasty marring, it's right up there with my rotaries and *MUCH* more to my liking. Seems quite well-built, at least as much so as my Metabo/Makita rotaries and *more* so than my PCs. It's not built like a Cyclo, but then again not many tools are.



More on-topic, the initial correction on same vehicle had been frustrating me something awful when I used the rotaries and HT-EC on it, but I did better with 1z Pasta Intensiv and a *LOT* better with M105. With the HT-EC (and similarly the HT-HC/357), when it does the job, cool...but when it does *NOT* solve the problem with a pass or two I've learned to try another combo right away; the HT stuff just isn't all that aggressive IME :nixweiss
 
I had the same experience with HT - the descriptons sounded good, till I tried corrected badly swirled-scratched paint (GM) and I was left wondering. I switched to 3M Extra Cut 3000 and problem solved.



Hey Accumulator - congrats on the Flex!
 
I have been amazed with what the flex can do...especially with M105 and SIP. It is very pleasurable to work with, and I can knock out a detail now as quickly as I can with my rotary. The only thing that concerns me is a couple of "quality" issues with the Flex. I'll get into those later once I have a chance to look into them further.
 
weekendwarrior- I lubed up that felt ring on the Flex (used Snake Oil firearms lube) as you recommended, thanks for undoubtedly saving me some frustration.



JuneBug said:
I had the same experience with HT - the descriptons sounded good, till I tried corrected badly swirled-scratched paint (GM) and I was left wondering. I switched to 3M Extra Cut 3000 and problem solved...
Click to expand...



Ah...yeah, when the HT-EC didn't do what I needed I too switched to 3M's EC (only I used the old PI-III stuff). Heh heh, there's a *HUGE* difference between the HT-EC and the 3M Extra Cut. The 1Z Pasta Intensiv and the M105 don't have the same sort of "rocks in a bottle" nature as the 3M EC, they somehow seem more friendly than that even if they do achieve some serious correction.



And yeah...I simply don't like using my rotaries and I got tired of the "oh sheesh, gotta go do that unpleasant chore..." aspect of the whole thing. I think you can relate to what I was going through.



BTW I put some of your E2K stuff to good use when I *did* have to get out the rotaries. It gave me a good into to the Edge system, and I've since bought their adaptors (and some pads) for the Flex and one of the Cyclos.
 
The only issue I have with the Flex is it's a little noisy, but I guess that's a small thing compared to how nice the machine works. I've heard good stuff on a Festool, but never seen one and I understand they are quite pricey.
 
Oh, and glad you liked the edge2K stuff, makes me wonder what your garage must look like, I'm thinking "Detailing Candy Store"!
 
JuneBug said:
.. makes me wonder what your garage must look like, I'm thinking "Detailing Candy Store"!
Click to expand...



Or like a detailing-centric junk store depending on your perspective :D



And yeah, now that you mention it the Flex *is* kinda noisy, and I usually don't pay attention to that with my polishers.



It has a little bit of "recoil" to it too, from the long throw...I can imagine some newbies thinking it's a little bit of a struggle when they first try it out (not that I intend that as any dire warning that oughta scare somebody off the thing).
 
Everyone has to find that tool that fits them, the Flex does that for me. I never really relaxed and enjoyed using a rotary, I know a lot do, but it wasn't that much fun IMHO for me. The PC is kinda cool and I still use it, but I wish I had bought a Flex a long time ago. It really fits me and how I like to polish paint.
 
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