Hi

F

Formulas

New member
So I finally got the PC and armed with the CMA cutting pad and 3m SMR did successfully remove the swirls and many scratches on my '96 black 993.



However, as reported by some it has left a haze even after follwing all recommendations carefully. PC was set on 5, I applied moderate to heavy pressure for the first 2 passes and then continued on another 2 or 3 passess with lighter and lighter pressure (5 - 6 passses too many? not enough?) until the last pass I was supporting some of the PC's weight. The haze is not visible under overcast daylight but very visible with my 500 halogen worklamp when in the garage. See attached picture.



I also applied some Zaino Z1 followed by Z2. It did give it some shine but the haze is still there. Also tried Meguiars SMR 2.0 and it wasn't as effective at removing swirls and it seems it made them more visible as it might have removed some of the many Z5 layers that I had applied up to this point.



Could I have underbuffed or overbuffed? What can I follow 3M SMR in order to get rid of the haze? Would a reapply of SMR make matters worse?



Thanks everyone!



Luis
 
I'm not sure, but I think perhaps the cutting pad is the culprit here. It's also possible that you didn't completely buff out/remove all of the SMR. I've never had hazing problems with SMR on my Vette <em class='bbc'>when using the PC[/i]. It's a different matter altogether when applying SMR by hand. However, I've only ever used the white pad with my PC -- never the cutting pad.

If PPCL or Blackfire doesn't help you, I'd suggest doing another pass with 3M SMR and the white polishing pad. You could also try Meguiar's SMR 2.0 -- neither of the SMR products should leave a haze when used properly with the PC.
 
I tested abrasives for a few hours one time and found that even with many variances of technique, I still got hazing from 3M SMR, as well as Meguiar's #9 2.0 and BSP Swirl-Free Polish, new PPCL, AIO . . . but only under 1000W of halogens.



Abrasives work by replacing large scratches with much smaller ones. The AIO left behind the finest haze after stripping with alcohol. All application was done by hand.



You can strive for perfection under hundreds of watts of halogen . . . if you get close then you will be stunned by the car's appearance in daylight.



Justin :)
 
I was always under the impression that the hazing caused by swirl mark removers was usually minimized due to the fact that these compounds have diminishing abrasives...in other words, the more you work them, the finer and finer the abrasives break down until there's virtually no abrasive left. Supposedly, the PC helps to work the abrasive compound more, effectively breaking it down quicker. I am also aware that different cars' paints react differently to the same abrasive. Quite a few people have reported hazing with all SMRs, regardless of the method of application. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones...no hazing here!



Luis, one other thing you might want to check is to make sure you're not using too much SMR. A quarter-sized drop is plenty for a large panel...I usually use a dime-sized drop and work small areas at one time. If you used too much abrasive it's possible that the polishing pad got saturated with it and couldn't effectively break it down any longer, leading to the hazing you're seeing.



Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress!
 
Thanks for the replies guys.



I might have used a bit much if a quarter sized dollup of SMR is too much. The pad does retain the SMR and after 3 applications or so I blotted the pad with a towel to try and suck up some of the SMR that remains on the pad.



I feel that black Porsche paint is way too soft. If I try to feel the finish with the back of my hand and my dry-skinned knuckles rub the paint, there will be light scratches left... Stone chips are inevitable.



Here's what I ended up doing. I did apply #9 2.0 SMR using the white CMA pad following the 3M SMR application. It seemed to have removed 99% of the hazing. Since most folks agree #9 is chemical and not abrasive in nature, I think I just might have covered the micro scratches causing the hazing rather than truly removing it. I'll try doing one section again using much less 3M SMR and see if there's hazing or not... maybe I did use too much material, although I did work it in pretty good, at least 6 or 7 passes with diminishing pressure as I worked it in.



Thanks again,

Luis
 
i am in the same situation, but the hazing i was left with is also in circles. i dont know what to do, i dont want to keep ruining pannels trying to learn, i am going try again this weeknd but with meg2.0 followed wioth meg#7, and finish with meg gold class. i guess my swirls were not as bad as i thought b/c even though i can only see them with the halogen light i know its there and its driving me nuts. to the point werew i get up 1 hour early to play with the car
 
either practice on a friend's car or go to a body shop / collision repair place and ask them for a panel or 2 (BLACK or same as your car) to have for wax testing. They will think you are a wierdo but should give it to you. I have a black door and red fender for PC testing :).
 
I read in another post that when using the polymer polishes like Zaino and Blackfire instead of waxes after SMR, you should wash the car again with Dawn. Can anyone confirm this? Could not washing the car again after SMR cause hazing?
 
Polymer waxes (like Zaino & Blackfire) will not adhere to the paint if there's oil on the paint from wax or other polishes. The reason for washing with Dawn is for the detergent to remove these oils so the polymer will stick.
 
I often apply Z2/Z5 immediately after applying SMR to my car...i.e. without a Dawn wash. It's simply too much trouble to wash the car every time I use SMR. I do make sure that I remove whatever excess SMR there is with a QD before I apply the sealant. I haven't had any hazing problems with this method. FWIW, I'm not too concerned about sealant durability because my car is a weekend-only driver.



I disagree that Meguiar's #9 2.0 is a chemical-only abrasive. If that were true, then any swirls it "removed" would come back after several car washes...which they don't. Also, if you look at the front of the #9 bottle, there is "cutting" scale on it -- IIRC it rates #9 as a mild/light cutting compound. If #9 indeed has "cut" to it, that implies that it contains an abrasive.
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by bigboyhf [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>PPCL or Blackfire Polish applied with PC and white pad should take care of that haze.
[/b]</blockquote>
I think this makes sense and I am going to try this. I am not sure if I can ever get the black acura paint (:down) to really glow but I'll let you know.

Have to wait for my PC and PPCL to arrive though...as well as some warmer weather. 32 degrees right now...
 
If you want to practice with SMR or equivalent, rent a car with similar color to yours. Hell knows that with all the machine washing they get there is plenty to work with. ;)
 
I use 3M SMR. The key with this product is to "exhaust it". As previously mentioned, the PC grinds the abrasive grit down in size. This is easy to accomplish on large horizontal surfaces (hood, trunk, and roof areas), but can be tougher to do on doors and fenders due to curves, corners, and protrusions.



My suggestion is to load the PC for a flat section. After completing several passes with successively lighter pressure (up/down/left/right as discussed elsewhere), follow with one of the other, irregular sections. Your pad will still have enough to do the job, but won't leave tough-to-remove remnants or hazing.



When you are done, the final wipe off will take seconds and is easy as heck. It leaves a squeaky clean surface, ready for the next product.



Just my $.02.



E
 
totally agree with eric. I have a black porsche too. You used too much material and didn't work it long/hard enough.(Don't feel bad - so did I the first time I tried it. Thanks to this board and continued learning, I tried it again after leaving it on the shelf a long while, using a much more "informed" technique - and got great results. )



I do it on 6, I use heavy pressure for SEVERAL SLOW PASSES, then lighten up and make MANY MORE. By the time I'm donw there is NO wetness, the residue on the car is very thin and dry, the pad picks up as much or more than it puts down. You shouldn't have to have ANY haze left if you do this.



You should use Meguiar's #9 2.0 this way too - it is both easier to use AND (I think) less abrasive, with more fillers - but it is really good stuff.
 
Greg,



Precisely how much SMR do you put on. I used a quarter-sized glob and tried to cover only about 2 square feet as the directions call for. Is that too much?



Also, how many passes do you think you do. I did about 5 or 6 total. I'd have to probably do 20 or 25 to have the SMR fully dry just from buffing. It was wet when I buffed but it dried in 5 or 6 seconds following my last pass.



Thanks,



Luis
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top