Help with Menzerna Products

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LightngSVT

New member
Hello everyone, After a long hiatus from detailng (due to back problems) I finally got got back on the horse yesterday. My first project was my wifes black Mountaineer, next my silver 330i and I have a black Expedition lined up too. Anyway, I recently purchased some new supplies, among them are Menzerna IP and FP. I also purchased Lake Country orange and gray CCS pads for both my Flex rotary and PC7424.



The Mountaineer is a '10 but right before we bought it the dealer had pinstripes painted on, arrggghhh! They "removed" them but even after taking it back to them twice there was still alot of haze and holograms in the paint. Ive also noticed ramdom deeper scratches, but not to many. The scratches arent through the paint and only show up in certian lights but look like someone had wiped the car down with something abrasive on the towel leaving the random, long scratch in the clear.



I first took to the car with the Flex / orange pad and the IP at about 1500-1800rpm, while it took most of the imperfections out I was left with holograms and "polishing haze" (fine marring like compounding). The description says it finishes blemish free? So next I tried the same combo but on the PC at speed 5, it finished much, much finer but still not 100% perfect. I assume its my technique, what am I doing wrong?



I then went to the FP, gray pad and the PC at 5, wow what a difference! Even under 500w halogen lights the finish looked nearly flawless (minus the random deep scratch the even the IP didnt remove). All the haze, dullness and holograms were gone after just one "pass". As a light or finishing polish I am very impressed with this combo! I did have one problem with the FP that I wonder if its normal or not, it left a very oily residue after wiping. I used QD to remove it but assume alcohol / water would have been even better. Is that normal?



Can someone help me make sense of the rest of the Menzerna line of polishes? In the past Ive used Optimum, Meg's, Sonus, Wolfgang, 3m, etc but I think I really like the Menzerna products. I also would like to find something a little stronger the IP for those deeper scratches but that isnt super harsh or abrasive in removing clear coat. Would using the IP with a wool pad on the rotary provide the extra cut needed for deeper blemishes?
 
Chuck, welcome back! :)



It sounds like you have some soft clearcoat on the Mountaineer. IP, in spite of the name, really isn't that harsh of a polish. More along the lines of a "medium polish" rather than a compound. The finish it left you with makes me think you have a pretty soft clear coat. It's great to hear that FP cleaned up the mess, but...(there's always a but, isn't there?)...



While you were gone, you missed a very entertaining thread on how Menz polishes can leave oils (as you noticed) that have a tendency to cover up marring. Yeah, you definitely should have followed the FP up with a few good IPA wipe downs. It is a very common complaint to hear guys talk about how awesome their paint looked after using (insert name of Menz polish here), just to have the defects return a few days to a few weeks later. The oils the Menz polishes leave behind can be very hard to remove. IPA is a good place to start, but PrepSol, PrepWash (and the like) are probably a better thing to use *before* the IPA wipe.



Unfortunately, many Menz products have picked up additional names, depending on who is selling their products. This has made the already confusing Menz naming system even more confusing. In most cases, it's best to go by the Menz polish number, instead of the product name.



Making sense of the Menz line up:



Power Gloss is their heavy hitter. It's a good compound, but you'll be over whelmed with dust. Most guys have shelved their PG in favor of Meg's M105. This is one of the few that hasn't been renamed a bunch of times by various retailers.



Menz Super Intensive Polish (PO85RD3.02) has equivalent cut to their regular IP, but is made to work on hard clear coats. This is a very good polish, but can be quite finicky to use. However, it's a darn fine polish (when you can get it to work right), and leaves a great finish, especially when you see how much correcting power it has.



Menz Intensive Polish is anything *but* intensive. Most guys use it as a medium weight polish on medium to soft clear coats. Mild correcting ability, and it's gotta be worked quite a while to get a decent finish out of it. If it leaves compounding marks, haze, etc., you can bet you are using it on a soft clear coat, as it will finish out *very* nicely on harder clears, but you won't get much in the way of correction out of it on harder clears. I haven't seen a different name for this one (yet).



Menz Power Finish (PO203S) is a relatively new polish. I've only used it a couple times. It has almost the correcting ability of SIP, but finishes down even better... it finishes off well enough that you can go straight to either a jeweling polish or even an LSP. Finishes off best on medium and hard clears, but of course it has better correcting power on softer clears. It still finishes off pretty darn nice on softer clears, just not like it does on hard stuff.



PO106FF and PO106FA. Various names for these two polishes, so go by the menz part numbers. I've used these two polishes a ton, and honestly, I can't determine much difference between the two. They are very light polishes, meant to be used on hard clear coats. They work well on medium clears, too, but can make a mess out of soft clears. They are very good finishing polishes, capable of cleaning up light compounding marks. They finish off to a great shine.



Menz PO85RD (you'll find it under various names, so go by the PO85RD number, instead) is very similar to FPII, but it's made for hard clear coats. This is pretty much a jeweling polish. No real bite, but it can make hard clears shine like a jewel. Pretty much considered to be a jeweling polish only, as it has no real correcting ability. On medium clears, you'll get some correction with it. Not much, but a little. It doesn't work well on really soft clears. Save this for medium and hard clears.



Menz FP (PO85U) is a good finishing polish, used on medium and soft clears. Has just a bit more cut than FPII (FPII has more than one name, too.. get to that in a sec). Finishes off very well, but don't expect much cutting power on harder clears.



Menz Final Polish II has picked up at least one other name, so again, go by the part number of PO87MC when you go to buy it. I think most guys around here still refer to it as FPII, though. This is one of my all time favorite "jeweling" polishes. It pretty much has zero correcting power, but it can gloss up a paint to a level I have yet to see any other polish achieve.



Well, that's the full version.... the short story...



Think of SIP, PO85RD and PO106FF (or FA) as primarily being used for hard clear coats. SIP is often used to correct softer clears with good results. PO106FF (or FA) are used as finishing polishes on medium and hard clear coats. 106 can clean up compounding marks, 85RD can not. Save the 106 and 85RD for medium and hard clears. Used on soft clears, they can make a real mess.



IP, FP, FPII are very good polishes for soft clears. I think there are still quite a few guys that use them as their "go to" products for soft clears. I know I do. On Honda paint, BMW Jet Black, and equivalently soft clears, they are really hard to beat.



Most guys have switched over to Megs M105 and Megs M205 for their compound and light polishes. Do a bit of reading up on them, and you'll see why.



But on softer clears, I still think that the Menz IP, FP, and FPII are the way to go.



Hope this doesn't confuse you even more....



--Supe



Edit: Going over this post, it still seems a bit confusing. Gonna try and sum it up a littler more clearly...



Heavy Polish:
Menzerna Power Gloss.

​
Medium Polishes:
For Hard and Medium Clears:
Menzerna Super Intensive Polish (PO85RD3.02)

​
For Medium and Soft Clears:
Menzerna Intensive Polish

Menzerna Power Finish

​
Light Polishes:
For Hard and Medium Clears:
PO106FF and PO106FA

​
For Medium and Soft Clears:
Menzerna Final Polish

​
Jeweling Polishes:
For Hard and Medium Clears:
PO85RD

​
For Medium and Soft Clears:
Menzerna Final Polish II (PO87MC)



​
Final Edit: I think every guy here should, at least once, take a few hours and use the appropriate Jeweling polish on their own personal car. Get your paint perfect using your favorite light polish (like M205, or what not), then if you have hard paint, get a small bottle of PO85RD. If your paint is on the soft side, get a small bottle of FPII. Spend a few hours jeweling your paint. Use a zero bite pad, and use a rotary if you have one. One application is good, but more is better. Don't worry about removing too much clear; these polishes are so mild you could polish constantly for a year and not remove much clear coat. Just be careful about heating the paint too much. The gloss you'll get is nothing short of amazing. You'll hate to even cover it up with an LSP, it'll look so good. Make sure you do a thorough IPA wipe down afterward.
 
SuperBee,

Thank You a TON for that info!

I've been looking into Menz. polishes lately and have been confused by their name/number system.....as have others, I believe.

Very helpful post......appreciate it.
 
Anytime. :)



Long time Menzerna fan, and I know how confusing their line up can be. Hope I didn't confuse anyone.



--Supe
 
SuperBee.....if ever there was a "Mother-Of-All Menzerna Summaries", your write-up above wins the Trophy!!!!

Your writing style is concise, a pleasure to read and easy to digest.

As a hardcore Menzerna user (daily, in my shop!), I agree with your inputs above.

Great stuff! Thanks!
 
SuperBee, you sir are the man! Wow, what a great post, thanks! Pretty much answered all of my Menzerna q's and gave me new products to look into (M105/205).



I totally agree that the paint on this (6 month) new 2010 Mountaineer is extremely soft, it seems to scratch if you look at it sideways! LOL. Some areas did take 2 applications of FP (or is it FPII, Ill have to look I guess) to remove the marring / haze so I hope that the FP actually did remove the marring. Regardless, it now has 2 coats of Collinite 476 and 1 coat of Sovereign on it and looks pretty amazing. I cannot see any marring under any light right now so Ill just be happy cuz this is probably it until spring unless we get some mild weather in the next few months.



This week I plan to work on my silver 06 330i, it seems to have pretty hard clear coat. So I wonder how how the IP / FP will work?
 
LightngSVT said:
...... plan to work on my silver 06 330i, it seems to have pretty hard clear coat
Click to expand...



PB140188.jpg


PB140194.jpg


My mother's "new" used car, and it's a personal import from Australia, where it has been re-sprayed before many years ago by a family friend there.



What I did:

1. Megs 105

2. Menzerna 106FF

3. Menzerna PO85RD for jewelling.

4. Washed with Dawn in preparation for Zaino. Then, the above pic was taken.

Tomorrow, if I hv the time, I'll put on 3 layers of Zaino Z2Pro+ZFX catalyst.
 
Glad to see it wasn't as confusing as I thought it was. :O



Honestly, I've never had that great of luck using Menz polishes and a PC. Their hard clear polishes notwithstanding, the rest of the Menz lineup is pretty gentle; to get decent cutting power, they kinda need the power of the rotary. I always use my Flex 3403 (great choice for us guys with back problems, huh? ;) ) rotary when I'm using Menz stuff. I'd give the IP/FP combo a try on the 330i with the rotary and see how it works. Might want to consider nothing more than a light cutting pad (like LC orange, or equivalent) for the IP, then switch to a zero bite pad to get the FP or FPII to finish off to an amazing gloss.



But I gotta be totally honest...if that car was in my garage, I'd go with M105 (if needed), and M205 via PC. Then follow it up with a good jeweling using FPII (or 85rd if it was a hard clear) using the rotary and a zero bite pad.



It's seriously amazing how easy it is to get fast, great results (using a PC!) with M105/M205. These two polishes have pretty much re-valued the PC as a *serious* detailing tool. M105 will cut through the yuckiest marring with a PC and a light cutting pad incredibly fast on all but the hardest clears. It works great on hard clears, too, it just takes a bit more effort. M205 is capable of cleaning up after M105 very quickly. Although I've never been able to get M205 to finish out holo free with a rotary, it'll give a great finish on most clears with a PC. If your clear is really soft, M205 won't finish down that great, so you'd have to follow it with FP (by rotary) afterward (but on the BMW, I don't think it would be a problem, at all.)



M105 (if needed)/M205 by PC might very well give you all you need on the BMW. The FPII (or 85rd) would just be the proverbial icing.
 
gigondaz said:
PB140188.jpg


PB140194.jpg


My mother's "new" used car, and it's a personal import from Australia, where it has been re-sprayed before many years ago by a family friend there.



What I did:

1. Megs 105

2. Menzerna 106FF

3. Menzerna PO85RD for jewelling.

4. Washed with Dawn in preparation for Zaino. Then, the above pic was taken.

Tomorrow, if I hv the time, I'll put on 3 layers of Zaino Z2Pro+ZFX catalyst.
Click to expand...

That process is *outstanding* for medium and hard clears. One of the best around, IMO. I imagine you probably used a rotary for the whole process?



Accumulator said:
SuperBee364- A big "thank you!" from me, too...that Menzerna summary is great :xyxthumbs
Click to expand...

Thank you, sir. Where's that blush smilie??
 
Insert my usual concerns regarding the 106FF's filling abilities here. If using it after something like M105 I'd sure do a PrepWash/etc. wipe to make sure there won't be any surprises later. If using it after some finer product I might not bother, but in that case I wouldn't be surprised if the gloss dropped off as the oils dissipated (and the ones in 106FF are among the ones that do dissipate under a still-OK LSP). Yeah, yeah, I *am* a broken record on this subject :o (heh heh, *there's* that blush smilie!).



Oh, and does anybody remember which version of 106 is sold under the BlackFire name?
 
@Superbee, Thanks for taking the time to write that.



A question... I have both Power finish and 85rd. Just did half my black car with these two and gloss is good.

WOuld adding FPII in between powerfinish and the 85rd give me even more popping gloss?



I used PF on an Tangerine H20 Pad and 85rd on a LC Black Flat pad... Both via flex.
 
Accumulator said:
Insert my usual concerns regarding the 106FF's filling abilities here. If using it after something like M105 I'd sure do a PrepWash/etc. wipe to make sure there won't be any surprises later. If using it after some finer product I might not bother, but in that case I wouldn't be surprised if the gloss dropped off as the oils dissipated (and the ones in 106FF are among the ones that do dissipate under a still-OK LSP). Yeah, yeah, I *am* a broken record on this subject :o (heh heh, *there's* that blush smilie!).



Oh, and does anybody remember which version of 106 is sold under the BlackFire name?
Click to expand...



Yeah, it's Blackfire Scratch Resistant Clear Finishing Polish. this stuff

Edit: D'oh, was thinking you were asking which *Blackfire* polish it was, but my reading comprehension ain't what it used to be... you're asking which version of *Menzerna* is re-branded as Blackfire. It used to be PO106FF, but I believe 106FF has officially been superseded by 106FA. Not completely sure on that, gonna have to do a bit of research...



mystickid said:
@Superbee, Thanks for taking the time to write that.



A question... I have both Power finish and 85rd. Just did half my black car with these two and gloss is good.

WOuld adding FPII in between powerfinish and the 85rd give me even more popping gloss?



I used PF on an Tangerine H20 Pad and 85rd on a LC Black Flat pad... Both via flex.
Click to expand...



85rd and FPII are both jeweling polishes. 85RD for hard and medium clears, FPII for medium and soft clears. Even though the Menzerna chart shows FPII to have a gloss level of 4.5, and 85rd to have a gloss level of 5, IME they are the same, as long as you use them on the clear coats they are intended for. If I was working a clear coat where 85rd and FPII were *both* working well on them, I'd opt for the 85rd over the FPII. It'll bring your paint to max gloss faster than FPII, and has a longer over all working time. However, 85rd simply doesn't play well with softer clear coats. If 85RD just refuses to amp the gloss, switch to FPII and use it, instead.
 
Since we're on the subject of Menzerna, thought I'd post a couple things I learned about using menzerna polishes from a few people here on Autopia. I've posted this a few times before, but it's been a while. This applies to the light polishes, and the jeweling polishes. This works best with a rotary and a zero bite pad, at no more than 1.5k rpm max. I normally use 1k rpm max. *Please* be careful that you don't overheat your paint! Jeweling polishes are typically worked for a much longer period of time than, say, a compound. This gives you a lot more time to build up the temperature of the surface you are working on! Use *extreme* care when you are jeweling painted plastic!!! Remember that more RPM = more total heat! Use the minimum speed needed to get good results. Also, don't apply a lot of pressure. The goal here is to polish the clear coat to a mirror like surface. You don't need to push the car into the earth when you're working a jeweling polish.



Using a diminishing abrasive polish, the standard for using them is to work them until they go clear. That's good, but with Menzerna, you get better results if you don't stop at that point. Menz polishes will go clear, and most guys stop working them at that point. But, if you keep working them, they will go from clear to *really* clear, and *very* oily looking. Keep working them until they look like straight baby oil on your paint. It should be completely clear and OILY. At this point, stop. Remove the oil residue with a rag, then wipe down your work area with PrepSol, PrepWash, or the like. Follow that up with IPA. Now look closely at the panel. If it looks as good with the oils removed as it did when the oils were still there, you've hit max gloss. If the paint loses some of it's gloss after you remove the oil, you're not done yet. Do another polish application, taking note of how glossy the paint looks when the oils are still on it. Remove the oils again, and re-inspect. Keep doing this until the paint looks just as glossy with the oils removed as it did when the oils were still there.



If you seem to hit a plateau, and just can't seem to get the paint to look as glossy with the oils removed as it did with the oils still there, you need to change something. Either your technique, or possibly your polish. If you're using 85rd and simply can't get it to max the gloss out, switch to FPII. If you're using FPII and the clear is just too hard for it to polish well, switch to 85rd. As for technique change, try reducing the pressure you're applying to just the weight of the buffer.



When you do your first application, the polish may dry out on you before it goes really clear looking. No biggie... you have two choices at this point. Either stop, remove the residue, and start another application, or you can just apply a bit more polish and keep working it. Eventually, you'll get to the point where your working time is extended enough that you can work it til the point it goes as clear as baby oil.



Make sure you brush out your pad between applications.



Menz polishes can be very labor intensive, but if your goal is max gloss, it's worth the effort.



Edit: Since I've been drinking large amounts of my home roasted coffee, and am in the midst of a caffeine fueled OCD bender, a bit more information...



Most oil based glazes take advantage of the fact that oils make paint *appear* to be very glossy. More glossy than the clear coat they are applied to. This helps glaze improve the look of the clear coat, above it's *actual* level of gloss. The goal when you're using a jeweling polish, is to get the clear coat *soooo* glossy, that oils are not able to improve the gloss level artificially. Using a fantastic jeweling polish, this isn't impossible to obtain.



Menzerna polishes give you the ability to judge how the paint would look with oil applied to it, while you are using their polishes. After the polish is broken down *completely* (prior to removing it), it looks just like how your vehicle would look if you applied a layer of straight baby oil to it. VERY glossy. Amazingly so, in fact. If your Menz light or jeweling polish doesn't look this way when you remove the buffer from the paint, you're just not working it long enough. Imagine pouring straight baby oil on your paint, and rubbing it around. That's what you're shooting for when you stop buffing.



Then the ultimate look you're trying for is keeping that same level of gloss when the oils are removed.



Get your paint to this level, and a glaze is completely unnecessary. Your paint will already be as glossy as the oils in the glaze could possibly make it look.



Sorry for the OCD rant... I'll shut up now, and go drink some coffee. :o
 
SuperBee364- All this talk of burnishing with Menzerna stuff and a rotary makes me think you need to change that signature line of yours about how shiny my paint is :o



I'm hot [stuff] when it comes to maintenance washes, but I bet plenty of you guys put me on the trailer with regard to polishing. Hey, deja vu all over again...didn't I post this once before :think: Maybe I just thought about it...
 
Polishing is kinda "where it's at" for me. For some reason, the polishing process is what intrigues me the most about detailing. The other stuff is good, too, but nothing fuels the OCD fire for me like polishing. :) I have more bottles of polish in my garage than I do LSP's.



Although, having said that, the washing process (maintaining that perfectly polished, mar free, swirl free look) is certainly a close second. I really wish more people would spend more time learning about how to maintain a perfectly polished paint rather than concentrating so much on the polishing process; if a car is properly maintained (meaning "washed"), there's no reason a car should *ever* have to go through the polishing process more than once. But that's a topic for another rant... er... thread. :)
 
SuperBee364 said:
... you're asking which version of *Menzerna* is re-branded as Blackfire. It used to be PO106FF, but I believe 106FF has officially been superseded by 106FA. Not completely sure on that, gonna have to do a bit of research...
Click to expand...



Mine is pretty old, so it's probably the 106FF then. Heh heh, sorta figures that the one I'd have is the one I'm always cautioning people about!



I suppose I really oughta get some 85RD or FPII but eh....the only car I'd use it on is the S8 and that 1Z HG looks fine to me on that paint (not that I plan to polish it any time soon anyhow ;) ). Well, that FPII might be nice on the Jag, providing a little more gloss without taking off an appreciable amount of (too-thin) paint :think: Might give that some thought if/when I get it out of mothballs...
 
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